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post #1261 of 2046 Old 02-13-2011, 05:47 PM
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this has already turned into a rewiring mess. i just wanna make some noise..! i think the i'll go terryas route and skip the sub on the iNova. thanks everyone...
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post #1262 of 2046 Old 02-13-2011, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post


A subwoofer bypass might be another cool feature for those who incorporate a Nova or iNova into a home theater system.

Run the Sub out from the AVR through the Nova, and on to the sub. Switch the Nova from bypass (for home theater) to active (for 2 channel) Stick the switch somewhere accessible.

Or maybe find a switch to recommend, or create one, for those who might find this limitation a deal breaker.

Just thinking out loud here.

That's a great idea. Hmmmmmmm.... Thx...I was going to have a relaxing flight tonight. lol...
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post #1263 of 2046 Old 02-13-2011, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Peachtree Audio View Post

That's a great idea. Hmmmmmmm.... Thx...I was going to have a relaxing flight tonight. lol...

You would obviously have a better sense than I do of how many customers use their units in a home theater system. Home theater bypass was a huge selling point for me. If this feature removes an objection and results in more sales, it might be worthwhile.

Maybe an additional/accessible switch wouldn't be necessary. Maybe a button on the back that enables sub bypass through the pre-out, then allow the HT Bypass switch on the front to switch both HT and sub bypass.

If that makes sense........

We still have the issue of where to control the crossover, but with a little effort the customer should be able to balance a system like this. Were it me, I'd probably set up the volume and crossover at the sub for two channel as a base, then tweak the volume in the AVR if necessary to balance the system for home theater.
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post #1264 of 2046 Old 02-13-2011, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peachtree Audio View Post

That's a great idea. Hmmmmmmm.... Thx...I was going to have a relaxing flight tonight. lol...

You people leave David alone; he has DACs to work on damnit!

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #1265 of 2046 Old 02-13-2011, 08:59 PM
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Folks,
First, thanks for all the commentary -- this is a highly informative thread.

Second, has anyone compared the Nova w/ Design 5's vs. Monitor Audio GR10 or GS10s? I have listened to the GS10 and can get access to the Design 4, but not the design 5 or GR10s. Can anyone characterize some of the differences? (The spec difference are the larger hz range on the MAs, as well as the higher impedance (8 ohm vs. 6 on the Designs), and the possibility of bi-wiring on the MA. But that's just the numbers....

Interestingly, I just found out that David Solomon was also involved in the production of the Monitor Audio GR10. That was very exciting, since he has been so helpful, and it seems just right! (I about to purchase one of these combos).

Thanks.
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post #1266 of 2046 Old 02-19-2011, 10:19 PM
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i have the iNova in use with an avr in ht bypass mode. however, i noticed that i dont get sound on the front two channels on non digital stations -- i figure the dac isnt locking on... i switched the avr to a dolby mode to process and pass the sound to the iNova but i still notice it happening at times (even on digital channels). any idea whats going on or other suggestions on how to correct this..? thanks.
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post #1267 of 2046 Old 02-20-2011, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unrecognized View Post

i have the iNova in use with an avr in ht bypass mode. however, i noticed that i dont get sound on the front two channels on non digital stations -- i figure the dac isnt locking on... i switched the avr to a dolby mode to process and pass the sound to the iNova but i still notice it happening at times (even on digital channels). any idea whats going on or other suggestions on how to correct this..? thanks.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying. Maybe if you rephrase it.

This is what is confusing me:

In HT Bypass, the iNova dac is not involved. You're sending an analog signal to the iNova. So I don't understand your reference to the dac in this context.

What are the stations you are referring to? TV stations? Radio stations?

What is your avr?

Are you running any digital connections to the iNova?
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post #1268 of 2046 Old 02-20-2011, 08:45 AM
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Hi everyone. Thanks for the informative discussions on this forum.

I'm tempted to pull the trigger on the Nova, but one set of measurements I came across gives me pause.

I should say up front -- these are measurements of the iDecco, not the Nova, but I wonder (a) is this as below-par as it appears to be and (b) if so, is there reason to be concerned that the Nova would have the same (apparent) deficiencies as its sibling?

Here are the measurements:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/peachtree-audio-idecco-stereo-integrated-amplifier-ht-labs-measures

"This graph shows that the iDecco's left channel, from CD
input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads,
reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 5.5 watts and 1 percent
distortion at 39.7 watts."

Other amps that I've seen have had flat regions below 0.1% distortion over large parts of their rated power range. This peachtree amp, instead, appears to have distoration above 0.1% and rising over most of its rated power range.

Are these measurements meaningful (or sonically important?) Any reason to expect the Nova to behave differently (leaving aside the 40W v. 80W x-axis)? Should any of this worry me?

I should also mention that the reviewer loved the system despite these measurements:

"Peachtree Audio's iDecco is a killer desktop amp. ... I'm
afraid you won't be able to read my last few words about
Peachtree's killer amps. They'll be written in my checkbook."

So no one reading this post should jump to the conclusion that there is a big problem here... Maybe when I listen to the system next week I'll love it, but if the peachtree and its competition (an Arcam rDAC/NAD 356BEE pair) sound close, this issue will be at the back of my mind....

Thanks for any thoughts you have!
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post #1269 of 2046 Old 02-20-2011, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatIDWorks View Post

Hi everyone. Thanks for the informative discussions on this forum.

I'm tempted to pull the trigger on the Nova, but one set of measurements I came across gives me pause.

I should say up front -- these are measurements of the iDecco, not the Nova, but I wonder (a) is this as below-par as it appears to be and (b) if so, is there reason to be concerned that the Nova would have the same (apparent) deficiencies as its sibling?

Here are the measurements:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...-labs-measures

"This graph shows that the iDecco's left channel, from CD
input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads,
reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 5.5 watts and 1 percent
distortion at 39.7 watts."

Other amps that I've seen have had flat regions below 0.1% distortion over large parts of their rated power range. This peachtree amp, instead, appears to have distoration above 0.1% and rising over most of its rated power range.

Are these measurements meaningful (or sonically important?) Any reason to expect the Nova to behave differently (leaving aside the 40W v. 80W x-axis)? Should any of this worry me?

I should also mention that the reviewer loved the system despite these measurements:

"Peachtree Audio's iDecco is a killer desktop amp. ... I'm
afraid you won't be able to read my last few words about
Peachtree's killer amps. They'll be written in my checkbook."

So no one reading this post should jump to the conclusion that there is a big problem here... Maybe when I listen to the system next week I'll love it, but if the peachtree and its competition (an Arcam rDAC/NAD 356BEE pair) sound close, this issue will be at the back of my mind....

Thanks for any thoughts you have!

Measurements may help lead you to a product, but the best measuring device is your ears. I can't imagine buying something that my ears like less because it measures better. This is not about quoting specs for me. It's about listening. In fact I'd rather not know the specs when I audition.
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post #1270 of 2046 Old 02-20-2011, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post


I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying. Maybe if you rephrase it.

This is what is confusing me:

In HT Bypass, the iNova dac is not involved. You're sending an analog signal to the iNova. So I don't understand your reference to the dac in this context.

What are the stations you are referring to? TV stations? Radio stations?

What is your avr?

Are you running any digital connections to the iNova?

hi. its a yamaha rx-v3800. i was refering to a hd cable box/tv stations. you're right it shouldnt involve the dac... but i notice the front left/right channels not passing through audio on some stations (but i can hear sound in the rear channels).
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post #1271 of 2046 Old 02-20-2011, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unrecognized View Post

hi. its a yamaha rx-v3800. i was refering to a hd cable box/tv stations. you're right it shouldnt involve the dac... but i notice the front left/right channels not passing through audio on some stations (but i can hear sound in the rear channels).

If you're certain HT Bypass is working, but not with all sources, it's not likely an issue with the iNova, but rather an issue with the box, the avr, or your wiring.

Were you successfully running this avr with the cable box prior to adding the iNova to the mix?
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post #1272 of 2046 Old 02-20-2011, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post

Measurements may help lead you to a product, but the best measuring device is your ears. I can't imagine buying something that my ears like less because it measures better. This is not about quoting specs for me. It's about listening. In fact I'd rather not know the specs when I audition.

Thanks. Certainly if I hear a big difference, then it will be an easy call.

But if the differences are subtle and I'm not sure which way I lean after a 15-, 30-, or 60-minute audition, I might hesitate to buy a system that measures significantly worse than the alternative. If on a short listen, two systems seem comparable, a system that measures closer to neutral might be the safer bet for the long haul.

So, granting that the ears will have the final say, it sure would be nice if someone could give me some reasons to discount these (apparently) poor measurements.

Thanks.
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post #1273 of 2046 Old 02-20-2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatIDWorks View Post

Thanks. Certainly if I hear a big difference, then it will be an easy call.

But if the differences are subtle and I'm not sure which way I lean after a 15-, 30-, or 60-minute audition, I might hesitate to buy a system that measures significantly worse than the alternative. If on a short listen, two systems seem comparable, a system that measures closer to neutral might be the safer bet for the long haul.

So, granting that the ears will have the final say, it sure would be nice if someone could give me some reasons to discount these (apparently) poor measurements.

Thanks.

There was a time when amplifier design was driven by the desire to have low THD values. The problem is that driving these numbers down didn't necessarily result in something more appealing to the ears. Often it was just the opposite. Marketing likes measurements like megapixels and horsepower, and in the case of amplifiers, THD and power ratings. But these numbers can be misleading, and they can be manipulated.

In my experience, an amplifier that measures well might just as easily sound harsh, dry, and unnatural, and/or might cause ear fatigue over extended listening periods. While a vintage tube amp, for example, might measure poorly, but have you sinking into the sofa with eyes closed, expecting to see the musicians right in front of you were you to open them again.

So in my opinion these specs have virtually no value. You'll hear what you hear, and if you audition enough you'll likely discover that there is no real relationship between how happy your ears are and these specifications.

And, we're talking about a system here. We start with source material in either digital or analog format, extract the sound with the appropriate turntable/player/dac etc, send the signal to the pre-amp, then to the amp, then through a wire to the speakers, which release the (hopefully) beautiful sound for our ears to capture. The THD of the amp is a virtual drop in the bucket. Were I doing the auditioning, if I found two systems sounding similar, I'd still avoid allowing the Total Harmonic Distortion of the amp to be a determining factor. I'd probably be looking at price, or elegance of design, or anything else.

These are just my opinions. Others have theirs as well.
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post #1274 of 2046 Old 02-20-2011, 11:03 PM
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It would have been interesting if we knew whether the tube circuit was included in the measurement. I would preferred to have seen two such measurements -- one with tube off and one with tube on.

Having said that, I cannot hear any differences with the tube on and off on mine.
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post #1275 of 2046 Old 02-21-2011, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post

There was a time when amplifier design was driven by the desire to have low THD values. The problem is that driving these numbers down didn't necessarily result in something more appealing to the ears. Often it was just the opposite. Marketing likes measurements like megapixels and horsepower, and in the case of amplifiers, THD and power ratings. But these numbers can be misleading, and they can be manipulated.

In my experience, an amplifier that measures well might just as easily sound harsh, dry, and unnatural, and/or might cause ear fatigue over extended listening periods. While a vintage tube amp, for example, might measure poorly, but have you sinking into the sofa with eyes closed, expecting to see the musicians right in front of you were you to open them again.

So in my opinion these specs have virtually no value. You'll hear what you hear, and if you audition enough you'll likely discover that there is no real relationship between how happy your ears are and these specifications.

(snip)

These are just my opinions. Others have theirs as well.

Actually I believe that if an amplifier measures well it will sound good. And I do have a lot of experience here having designed many amplifiers over the past 40 odd years, including the ones in the Arcam AVR600.

BUT (and it is a big but) you have to do the right measurements to be able to even begin to confirm this. A simple THD curve at one frequency doesn't tell you much, especially when it is shown on a linear scale for power on the x-axis. As other designers have repeatedly pointed out, most listening is done at levels of a watt or two, and IMHO spending 99% of the graph's scale ignoring that is just plain daft.

Having met the one of Peachtree designers at CES I would be confident that it will at the very least sound decent, though personally I wouldn't want to put out a product measuring quite like that.

HTH.

John Dawson (Arcam)
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post #1276 of 2046 Old 02-22-2011, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by John Dawson View Post

Actually I believe that if an amplifier measures well it will sound good. And I do have a lot of experience here having designed many amplifiers over the past 40 odd years, including the ones in the Arcam AVR600.

BUT (and it is a big but) you have to do the right measurements to be able to even begin to confirm this. A simple THD curve at one frequency doesn't tell you much, especially when it is shown on a linear scale for power on the x-axis. As other designers have repeatedly pointed out, most listening is done at levels of a watt or two, and IMHO spending 99% of the graph's scale ignoring that is just plain daft.

Having met the one of Peachtree designers at CES I would be confident that it will at the very least sound decent, though personally I wouldn't want to put out a product measuring quite like that.

HTH.

John Dawson (Arcam)

I don't know that what you're saying here and what I was trying to say necessarily contradict each other. From a consumer perspective, we don't know the process involved in the testing, we usually just see a number. A number that isn't necessarily a good guide.
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post #1277 of 2046 Old 02-22-2011, 02:39 PM
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Have you guys seen this?
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/...sic/index.html

I just REALLY hope that the iNova will be able to play whatever format is used for this iTunes 24 bit music. I just got notified, my iNova is ready to be picked up at the store!
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post #1278 of 2046 Old 02-24-2011, 06:40 AM
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Has anyone have a problem with their volume sticking when using the remote? So far the nova sounds good, maybe a little too polite. Also when I turn the volume half way up it seems to me it runs out of gas. Of course Im no expert just my thoughts and I have only 2 hours on the unit. The speakers Im using are MA GR 20's 87 db and 6 ohm I think. Any help would be great.
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post #1279 of 2046 Old 02-24-2011, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unrecognized View Post


hi. its a yamaha rx-v3800. i was refering to a hd cable box/tv stations. you're right it shouldnt involve the dac... but i notice the front left/right channels not passing through audio on some stations (but i can hear sound in the rear channels).

Sounds like you may not have the HT bypass button engaged on the rear.
Hope this helps.
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post #1280 of 2046 Old 02-25-2011, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aasen7 View Post

Has anyone have a problem with their volume sticking when using the remote? So far the nova sounds good, maybe a little too polite. Also when I turn the volume half way up it seems to me it runs out of gas. Of course Im no expert just my thoughts and I have only 2 hours on the unit. The speakers Im using are MA GR 20's 87 db and 6 ohm I think. Any help would be great.

Hi aasen,
I would manually turn it up and down to possibly loosen the knob. If this does not clear the problem we'll be glad to fix or swap.
There should be some big improvements after a few days of play. 80 wpc w 87dB GR20 will sound sweet but won't get way loud.
Best wishes
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post #1281 of 2046 Old 02-25-2011, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatIDWorks View Post

Hi everyone. Thanks for the informative discussions on this forum.

I'm tempted to pull the trigger on the Nova, but one set of measurements I came across gives me pause.

I should say up front -- these are measurements of the iDecco, not the Nova, but I wonder (a) is this as below-par as it appears to be and (b) if so, is there reason to be concerned that the Nova would have the same (apparent) deficiencies as its sibling?

Here are the measurements:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...-labs-measures

"This graph shows that the iDecco's left channel, from CD
input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads,
reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 5.5 watts and 1 percent
distortion at 39.7 watts."

Other amps that I've seen have had flat regions below 0.1% distortion over large parts of their rated power range. This peachtree amp, instead, appears to have distoration above 0.1% and rising over most of its rated power range.

Are these measurements meaningful (or sonically important?) Any reason to expect the Nova to behave differently (leaving aside the 40W v. 80W x-axis)? Should any of this worry me?

I should also mention that the reviewer loved the system despite these measurements:

"Peachtree Audio's iDecco is a killer desktop amp. ... I'm
afraid you won't be able to read my last few words about
Peachtree's killer amps. They'll be written in my checkbook."

So no one reading this post should jump to the conclusion that there is a big problem here... Maybe when I listen to the system next week I'll love it, but if the peachtree and its competition (an Arcam rDAC/NAD 356BEE pair) sound close, this issue will be at the back of my mind....

Thanks for any thoughts you have!

We wondered about these measurements as well. Our design and reference unit are well below 1% thd. It fairly easy to design a clean amp these days. It's not out of possibility that we sent a unit somehow not to spec.
Not to be defensive, but the iDecco has multiple major reviews and most of them end the same. The reviewer reviews iDecco and then buys one. This reviewer, John Atkinson, Art Dudley all bought one plus a few more.
We strive for great measurements but at the end of the day, the final call goes to our ear. If it were all about the measurements, there would be no tube either...we just like the way it makes digital music sound. We put a lot of time and effort into each product and want the Peachtree experience to move you in every way...if not, we gladly take it back for any reason for 30 days.
best,
David
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post #1282 of 2046 Old 02-25-2011, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peachtree Audio View Post

Hi aasen,
I would manually turn it up and down to possibly loosen the knob. If this does not clear the problem we'll be glad to fix or swap.
There should be some big improvements after a few days of play. 80 wpc w 87dB GR20 will sound sweet but won't get way loud.
Best wishes

Thanks for the response. Is there any chance Peachtree coming out with just a preamp, or you guys already have one. Plus is there any b-stock decco's to be used as a preamp?

Thanks again
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post #1283 of 2046 Old 02-25-2011, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peachtree Audio View Post

Sounds like you may not have the HT bypass button engaged on the rear.
Hope this helps.

That's probably it. I thought he was having success with some sources, but after re-reading what he wrote, maybe that wasn't the case.
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post #1284 of 2046 Old 02-25-2011, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aasen7 View Post

Thanks for the response. Is there any chance Peachtree coming out with just a preamp, or you guys already have one. Plus is there any b-stock decco's to be used as a preamp?

Thanks again

Look for two later this year... Also, news like this typically pops up on the Peachtree FB first so please "like" us on FB for the latest news.
I try to keep up w/ AVS and others, but inevitably, I get behind from time to time.
Best wishes!
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post #1285 of 2046 Old 02-25-2011, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWDeveloperDave View Post

Have you guys seen this?
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/...sic/index.html

I just REALLY hope that the iNova will be able to play whatever format is used for this iTunes 24 bit music. I just got notified, my iNova is ready to be picked up at the store!

This is extremely exciting news and a real game changer. I just don;t want to get my hopes up too high.
We have no prob w 24 bit via iNova through USB or SPDIF coax.
Best wishes and keep your fingers crossed.
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post #1286 of 2046 Old 02-26-2011, 12:37 AM
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This threads keeps beng really interesting and informative, but if you guys allow me I'd like to get back to a post of mine, 2 pages down, regarding power consumption...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silva741 View Post

2) I'm worried about my Nova's power consumption. I know standby only takes 1W, but to me the doubt is regarding consumption when playing music, and also when in silence but with the power ON. Did Peachtree Audio release these numbers? And if not, I presume someone tested this already?

I know that (sadly) energy savings is not a worry in the audio industry, but has anyone at the very least an educated guess about these numbers?
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post #1287 of 2046 Old 02-26-2011, 07:22 PM
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I too am interested in power consumption. Mine seems to "idle" at about 40 W, which isn't terrible. But what would be really cool would be a Nova with a Class D amp. (I hereby happily volunteer to test a prototype and buy it if it sounds good.) The 2010 mac mini I have it paired with has an idle power consumption of about 10 W. For me this is a bit of an issue because I am aiming for zero net electrical consumption with my on-grid solar system.

I'm very pleased with my nova, but if there were a way to bypass the current amp for an external class D like a Rotel or Bel Canto, and turn the nova's amp off, I would do that, but I can't really justify the purchase if the class A amp continues to draw power.
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post #1288 of 2046 Old 02-26-2011, 07:41 PM
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Hi all,

We were wondering how would the PT Decco 2 sounds against the likes of the usual suspects of integrated amps from Marantz, HK, Yamaha at around $799-1000. Is the 40w per ch @ 6 ohms powerful and musical enough for a 12x10x6 room? We have a pair of MA BX1 and BXW Sub10 on hand. How good is the sub/pre-out filtering of Decco 2?

We intend to use them for our PC which includes MP3/FLAC/WMV of classical and sentimental songs, with some Live concerts too. This PC would also require to play our lists of Movies, which needs to have some slam, which needs the int. amp to have a working/good Sub out.

We already have an Asus Essence STX and so the DAC (192/24 upscaling, 124db snr, 0.0001% thd) and headphone amp are covered but if PT Decco2 Sabre can do both jobs equal or better, the sound card goes. We like the Decco2 for its AIO features.

But if the likes of Marantz PM8004 (high grade amp) or Yamaha AS500 (much cheaper with good review) or HK3940(crazy cheap, crazy features) provides more ooomph in the amp department than they are preferred.

Our considerations are as follows:
1. Musical quality of the amp, warm vocals first and some fast transient at times
2. Convenience feature/compact unit/well built
3. Less heat/energy needed the better

Thanks.
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post #1289 of 2046 Old 02-26-2011, 08:58 PM
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Sentimental music greatly shortens the life of the tube.
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post #1290 of 2046 Old 02-27-2011, 09:18 AM
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I tried a Decco2 in my system. I bought it to use as DAC and Pre only, as I had a power amp I was happy with. However, I did try it as "all-in-one", to see if it would suitably drive my speakers. I found it to come up short, but then again my Dyns aren't exactly efficient. I think if you want to rely on a Peachtree to power your system, you better make sure your speakers are pretty efficient. For example, I'd be curious to see how a Peachtree would sound matched with say a 97db Klipsch monitor.

IMO, Peachtree will start to have broader appeal to the higher-end, when they either start to make "standalone" DACs, or DAC/Preamps...so that enthusiasts can use heir own higher powered amps (which I understand they are already working on), or they take advantage of class-D, and start to pump the power in their all-in-ones up some.

A unit, with an ESS DAC, class-A Pre stage (with tube buffer), and a class-D power section, that gives you a true 100/200 (8/4) per side (remember, the Nova's 80 per is a 6ohm rating). If they could get that out for under $2k, I think you'd have a unit with great appeal for the right kind of system. Like a hi-end Office or Bedroom set-up.
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