Anyone delt with "Reference Audio Mods"? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 11:20 AM
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I am always amazed at the hubris of these snake oil salesmen.
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post #92 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 12:30 PM
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Jenalabs makes $15,000 analog cables


http://www.jenalabs.com/interconnect...onnect-09.html

That $1100 Oppo upgrade seems like a bargain!
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post #93 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 12:47 PM
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Less than Brett Favre had to pay.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #94 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 01:11 PM
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I find it interesting that these MOD companies don't come here to explain their mods or even to debate the topic at hand. Speaks volumes to me that they do not come on here to defend their work. I know they would be mauled on here by the non-believers anyway, haha.
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post #95 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volta View Post

I find it interesting that these MOD companies don't come here to explain their mods or even to debate the topic at hand. Speaks volumes to me that they do not come on here to defend their work. I know they would be mauled on here by the non-believers anyway, haha.

That happened with The Upgrade Company. If they haven't deleted the thread, and boy was it long, search for it.

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post #96 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

That happened with The Upgrade Company. If they haven't deleted the thread, and boy was it long, search for it.

Oh yeah? Definitely will search for it. I don't buy into the mod thing too much, but it doesn't matter, I don't make enough money to spend on that crap anyway. I do like reading the debates though, but it seems they always go with "read our testimonials" like that really proves anything. I am in the wrong business. I should open a mod company.
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post #97 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoTC View Post

Jenalabs makes $15,000 analog cables


http://www.jenalabs.com/interconnect...onnect-09.html

That $1100 Oppo upgrade seems like a bargain!

Even if i had the money, at least i`am not dumb enough to fall for that one

or this http://dvice.com/archives/2009/09/good-lord-its-a.php
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post #98 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

And again, their have been many articles to back this up. How would you know if it doesn't ?

Articles? From whom? What kind of testing conducted?
Bogus claims about those magnets, bogus when well controlled testing is conducted.
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post #99 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Articles? From whom? What kind of testing conducted?
Bogus claims about those magnets, bogus when well controlled testing is conducted.

Have you ever tried it ?
It was one of the last things i did, And i found that it did help...

Google, and read up on it
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post #100 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

... "read our testimonials" ....

All the snake oil peddlers in consumer land depend on such evidence and the gullible just fall all over them Nothing new in history; and, most just never learn.
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post #101 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 11:34 PM
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I asked him how the PS upgrade would improve Vid this is what he said,

Power is the heart of electronics. Improved energy to the chips performing the functions(audio or video) simply results in better performance. A power cord upgrade is based on the same principle although on the AC side.

Any input
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post #102 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 06:09 AM
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^^^

input?

yes... more bs from someone trying to sell you something...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #103 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post
I asked him how the PS upgrade would improve Vid this is what he said,

Power is the heart of electronics. Improved energy to the chips performing the functions(audio or video) simply results in better performance. A power cord upgrade is based on the same principle although on the AC side.

Any input
The principle he's referring to is the PT Barnum principle.
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post #104 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

I asked him how the PS upgrade would improve Vid this is what he said,

Power is the heart of electronics. Improved energy to the chips performing the functions(audio or video) simply results in better performance. A power cord upgrade is based on the same principle although on the AC side.

Any input

You thought that was an explanation?

Did you see why this thread was started? Why would you even consider doing business with someone who treats his customers the way he did?
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post #105 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volta View Post

Oh yeah? Definitely will search for it. .........

read it and weep for humanity.

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #106 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

I asked him how the PS upgrade would improve Vid this is what he said,

Power is the heart of electronics. Improved energy to the chips performing the functions(audio or video) simply results in better performance. A power cord upgrade is based on the same principle although on the AC side.

Any input

Perhaps if he used Dylithium crystals (a la Star Trek's Scotty) you may have "improved energy". I would love to hear a description of that term from the salesman.

You can see the voltage, clamping, current, ripple, etc of any power supply using a scope and digital multimeter. There will be no difference between the correctly sized stock cable and the mega buck cables.

The wires inside the power cable have zero ability to filter or cause any effect whatsoever on a device they are connected to. The only requirement made on the wire (electrically speaking) is no appreciable voltage drop under maximum load. Voltage drop can be caused by too small a gauge wire so it cannot pass the current required without generating heat. The device manufacturers are well aware of the current requirements for their device and supply a cable quite sufficient for the purpose.

Now from a mechanical point of view there can be differences such flexibility, jacket color and appearance and over all length.

The reason the snake oil pusher rail on power cables is that the cable is the only detachable part of the system they can handle, the cables carry electricity and most folks don't have a clue as to how a power supply works and they allow themselves to be sold a bill of goods and since the sales guy handles the cables, he MUST know the "magical secrets of electricity".

If a car salesman told you a 2 passenger Kia could pull a 40 ft 20 ton flatbed uphill on an icy road, would you believe him? Hopefully not. The same holds true here. Many of us here make a nice living in the industry and we KNOW the ins and outs (no pun intended) of the audio visual business and its associated equipment.

We are trying to SAVE you money and the sales guy is trying to soak you for it.
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post #107 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

Perhaps if he used Dylithium crystals (a la Star Trek's Scotty) you may have "improved energy". I would love to hear a description of that term from the salesman.

You can see the voltage, clamping, current, ripple, etc of any power supply using a scope and digital multimeter. There will be no difference between the correctly sized stock cable and the mega buck cables.

The wires inside the power cable have zero ability to filter or cause any effect whatsoever on a device they are connected to. The only requirement made on the wire (electrically speaking) is no appreciable voltage drop under maximum load. Voltage drop can be caused by too small a gauge wire so it cannot pass the current required without generating heat. The device manufacturers are well aware of the current requirements for their device and supply a cable quite sufficient for the purpose.

Now from a mechanical point of view there can be differences such flexibility, jacket color and appearance and over all length.

The reason the snake oil pusher rail on power cables is that the cable is the only detachable part of the system they can handle, the cables carry electricity and most folks don't have a clue as to how a power supply works and they allow themselves to be sold a bill of goods and since the sales guy handles the cables, he MUST know the "magical secrets of electricity".

If a car salesman told you a 2 passenger Kia could pull a 40 ft 20 ton flatbed uphill on an icy road, would you believe him? Hopefully not. The same holds true here. Many of us here make a nice living in the industry and we KNOW the ins and outs (no pun intended) of the audio visual business and its associated equipment.

We are trying to SAVE you money and the sales guy is trying to soak you for it.


Thx, I told him before that i wanted to forgo the up grade. And he just asked why i backed out. I said i spoke to a few people telling me i would not see any Vid improvement from a PS upgrade and they said to ask you how that upgrade would work.
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post #108 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 12:00 PM
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Ask them to write out exactly what they claim will happen and HOW. I would be most curious to see their explanation. Tell them they can use tech terms too as we understand them rather well.

Also ask them if they would be willing to submit their upgrades to technical analysis using industry standard equipment and techniques.
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post #109 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

I asked him how the PS upgrade would improve Vid this is what he said,

Power is the heart of electronics. Improved energy to the chips performing the functions(audio or video) simply results in better performance. A power cord upgrade is based on the same principle although on the AC side.

Any input

You received some great inputs. If that is all he does, run, don't walk away from this fraud.
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post #110 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 08:20 PM
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this is what he told me what do u think ?

Here's what I will do. Perform the mod in simple stages to test specifically for increases in video performance.Just installed anew 46" 3D plasma as well so this will be interesting. IF I do not feel the improvement is insufficient I will reverse the mod and send her on her way. I will provide a full refund if you do not see a performance increase. Obviously I will not send it modded if I feel this may happen. Does this sound fair?
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post #111 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 08:43 PM
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Performance of any video monitor can actually be measured in lumen output, flat field, pixel count(resolution), chrominance levels(color), black levels, slew, lag, etc. EVERY one of the video parameters can be measured and quantified. BTW if anyone opens and alters the circuitry in any way, the warranty is voided by the manufacturer and YOU end up with a pile of junk.

I guess at this point I must ask why you are still considering this since so many in the know here with years of experience are telling you this guy is a shyster and can do NOTHING but take your money.

Why will you not accept our council and especially since WE have nothing to gain financially? We are trying to save you money and aggravation with a probable slapping of your own head while you ask yourself why you did this.
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post #112 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

Performance of any video monitor can actually be measured in lumen output, flat field, pixel count(resolution), chrominance levels(color), black levels, slew, lag, etc. EVERY one of the video parameters can be measured and quantified. BTW if anyone opens and alters the circuitry in any way, the warranty is voided by the manufacturer and YOU end up with a pile of junk.

I guess at this point I must ask why you are still considering this since so many in the know here with years of experience are telling you this guy is a shyster and can do NOTHING but take your money.

Why will you not accept our council and especially since WE have nothing to gain financially? We are trying to save you money and aggravation with a probable slapping of your own head while you ask yourself why you did this.


just wanted to see FB on his comment
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post #113 of 147 Old 12-31-2010, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

just wanted to see FB on his comment

I'm going to 'ditto' Giz in the two points he raises in the quote below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

Performance of any video monitor can actually be measured in lumen output, flat field, pixel count(resolution), chrominance levels(color), black levels, slew, lag, etc. EVERY one of the video parameters can be measured and quantified.

I raised this point earlier. back when I worked in broadcast, I had a lot of experience setting up monitors and cameras and any 'outside' company that made such a claim for improved performance would have to be able to demonstrate it clearly, via documented improvements against known standards and the performance of a stock unit, as well as prove that it would not affect reliability. As there are clear video standards, would not any modder really wanting to claim a substantive improvement in performance want to do so against these?

The chipsets used in modern AV gear are designed to an extremely high calibre by very talented engineers. Performance is very good and to think that these guys would overlook the interface with the power is difficult to believe. They know these units are going to be used all over the world in all sorts of conditions and as well as reliability, if some area such as PS noise were to cause visible affects on an image it could case huge differences in sales levels because people would quickly spread the news on forums such as this. For analogue video it is exceptionally easy to make quiet PS with off the shelf and cheap components (video has a lower SNR requirement than audio) by direct reference to the application noted in the datasheets. Chip buyers are quickly made aware of changes in construction, mods or addendum to design that will improve performance for the end user; it's in everyone's best interest that they do.

Digital transfer in HDMI is very robust and resistant to error, for the same reasons. It's got to work well in all sorts of circumstances. A PS in a digital system has to be pretty bad, ie faulty before it will make a difference and substantiation should be provided by anyone who claims their mods work in this regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

BTW if anyone opens and alters the circuitry in any way, the warranty is voided by the manufacturer and YOU end up with a pile of junk.

This is a good point, and even if he says he will honour the manufacturer's warranty, there is no guarantee he can get any required parts, service manuals as he's not an authorised dealer/rep or is actually competent to do so. Without unfairly commenting upon this modder, the closed thread on the other company raised this issue and leaves me with no confidence.

Ultimately it's your money to spend as you please. But there are better ways to spend it. All the best.
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post #114 of 147 Old 01-01-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

I'm going to 'ditto' Giz in the two points he raises in the quote below.

I raised this point earlier. back when I worked in broadcast, I had a lot of experience setting up monitors and cameras and any 'outside' company that made such a claim for improved performance would have to be able to demonstrate it clearly, via documented improvements against known standards and the performance of a stock unit, as well as prove that it would not affect reliability. As there are clear video standards, would not any modder really wanting to claim a substantive improvement in performance want to do so against these?

The chipsets used in modern AV gear are designed to an extremely high calibre by very talented engineers. Performance is very good and to think that these guys would overlook the interface with the power is difficult to believe. They know these units are going to be used all over the world in all sorts of conditions and as well as reliability, if some area such as PS noise were to cause visible affects on an image it could case huge differences in sales levels because people would quickly spread the news on forums such as this. For analogue video it is exceptionally easy to make quiet PS with off the shelf and cheap components (video has a lower SNR requirement than audio) by direct reference to the application noted in the datasheets. Chip buyers are quickly made aware of changes in construction, mods or addendum to design that will improve performance for the end user; it's in everyone's best interest that they do.

Digital transfer in HDMI is very robust and resistant to error, for the same reasons. It's got to work well in all sorts of circumstances. A PS in a digital system has to be pretty bad, ie faulty before it will make a difference and substantiation should be provided by anyone who claims their mods work in this regard.

This is a good point, and even if he says he will honour the manufacturer's warranty, there is no guarantee he can get any required parts, service manuals as he's not an authorised dealer/rep or is actually competent to do so. Without unfairly commenting upon this modder, the closed thread on the other company raised this issue and leaves me with no confidence.

Ultimately it's your money to spend as you please. But there are better ways to spend it. All the best.


Thx

Interesting:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ies-audio.html
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post #115 of 147 Old 01-02-2011, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

this is what he told me what do u think ?

Here's what I will do. Perform the mod in simple stages to test specifically for increases in video performance.Just installed anew 46" 3D plasma as well so this will be interesting. IF I do not feel the improvement is insufficient I will reverse the mod and send her on her way. I will provide a full refund if you do not see a performance increase. Obviously I will not send it modded if I feel this may happen. Does this sound fair?

Yes, but this cannot be reliably nor fairly tested. You need two components side by side with one modded and the other not.
No way you can remember what it looked like before you sent it off and when it returned. Pure guesswork.
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post #116 of 147 Old 01-02-2011, 10:42 PM
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Yes that is true, I decided to forgo the mod...
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post #117 of 147 Old 01-07-2011, 04:58 PM
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Thought i would post his mods by description:


Marantz BD8002 Blu Ray Modifications

RAM is now offering new Ultra High Performance modifications to the Marantz BD-8002 Blu Ray Player. My first overall impression was sonically “not bad”, and on the picture side… excellent. We first viewed the Blu Ray movie “I am Legend” starring Will Smith which was simply superb. Picture had a “film like” quality to it appearing very natural and effortless. We also viewed and listened to the Celion Dion Las Vegas show which again was spectacular visually and surprisingly very nice sonically..this was through DTS. Next, in line was CD playback. The sound was decent although nothing to take your breath away as compared to the Blu Ray picture quality. The player was a bit flat sounding. The dimensionality was missing. I noted decent resolution but also missing lifelike character. At this point, it was clear what our goals were. Perform modifications that gets the audio up to par with video! Hey, SOTA Picture and Sound…best of both worlds!!
The first area we improved upon was the analog signal path. Consistently, RAM analog mods focus on simplifying and then doing so with only the very best possible parts. Here we used our normal approach of transformer coupling by Audio Consulting. Together with our new high current buffer stage the sound took on a whole new life. CD performance jumped considerably. There was a sense of greater openness and flow while presenting much better resolution across the spectrum. Bass impact is considerably improved and highs more extended. Music was now more rounded and dimensional…curing much of the weakness it has in stock form. The next areas we operated on were the clocking and power supplies. Our mainstay products Superclock 4-S and Superclock PSU were installed. This was significant. “Refinement” always comes to mind when jitter(timing errors) is lowered. It makes CD’s sound analog. Yes, very cliché but so true. Corrine Bailey Rae’s “Like A star” has very nice vocal qualities. With the Superclock 4-S mods we noticed a much more believable and textured voice. There was more body and density yet greater detail. Later on the disc, “choux pastry heart” demonstrates improvements in bass as well. Greater bass definition seems to improve the overall pace of the music as well as improve the “palp” factor. The enhancement to the SMPS seemed to primarily improve areas of dynamics and PRAT. Simply more attack and improved transient speed became easily noticeable. So, after an 8 weeks of trial and tests we are now pleased to announce the release of the spectacular RAM Modified Marantz BD-8002. A player that offers both exceptional sound and video capable of satisfying the most insatiable audiophile appetites!!


Marantz BD8002 Ultra Modification Package Descriptions


Rubycon ZL/ZLG capacitors-
We replace many decoupling capacitors in all critical areas with Rubycon ZL/ZLG series caps! Very Nice improvement! A superb change in total sonic tonality and Character. We feel the Rubycon ZL/ZLG are revolutionary for sound

Custom RAM Exotic Ultra High Speed Diode Bridge-
Replace the stock rectifiers with handmade RAM Exotic ultra fast SMD diodes. These are constructed with Audio Consulting Silver Wire. Very little metal is used, lowering eddy current issues thus providing better resolution and bass. We have compared these to the "Harris Soft Recovery Diodes" that we used to install and our diode bridges make the music sound cleaner and faster with no grain whatsoever!!

Audio Consulting Transformer Coupled Analog Stage
RAM greatly modifies the stock Analog Output stage. The dac chip is effectively coupled to the Audio Consulting transformers which then feeds directly out to the RCA WBT Nextgen RCA connectors.

WBT NextGen Female Copper RCA Connectors for 2ch out-
Simply the the finest sounding RCA connectors in the industry. These are low eddy current designs which improve the signal integrity over the stock rca connectors.

Audiocom Superclock 4-S and Clock PSU Upgrade
Replace stock oscillator circuit with the fantastic Audiocom Superclock 4-S ultra low jitter reference clock. The effects of adding the Superclock 4-S into the Marantz brings better focus and detail into the presentation, Overall resolution increases and Bass/Dynamics are tighter, deeper and more refined and controlled.

Analog Modification
$995.00 installed

Superclock 4-S/PSU modification
$650 installed

Switching Power Supply
modification
$495.00 installed
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post #118 of 147 Old 01-07-2011, 06:32 PM
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The guy is putting out a crock of ..... bovine excrement.
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post #119 of 147 Old 01-07-2011, 06:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

I decided to forgo the mod...

Did you really? vvv
Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

Thought i would post his mods by description;



If you truly forgo this time around, what's your next venture be for your audio system?
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post #120 of 147 Old 01-07-2011, 07:01 PM
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Another thing that cracked me up about Reference Audio Mods was when people found out they were advertising a modification to the Slim Devices Transporter before it was even available for sale. This was brought to the attention of Transporter designer and Slim Devices founder Sean Adams in the Slim Devices forum. It turned out that at the time, there was only one Transporter in existence and it was sitting on the test bench in Sean's lab! Yet they already had detailed descriptions of the mod in the ad.
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