Parasound Model 2100 preamp owners thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 652 Old 02-25-2010, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeveraggi View Post

Hi guys, I'm looking for a pre with HT bypass and bass management, and could really use some help.
I currently own a Denon 2809, Ascend Sierra LCR and a Rythmik F12SE sub, and would like to improve 2 channel listening.

Here are some thoughts on my two preamp main candidates:

Parasound 2100
-Around $600
-Well regarded brand, reliable.
-Cannot crossover speakers to sub lower than 80hz (it is fixed, right?).

Emotiva USP-1
-$399
-Emotiva seems to get lots of love AND hate around here.
-More flexible bass management.

Has anyone had a chance to hear them both? Do they have different SQ characteristics?
Are there any other options below $1000 I should consider?
Thanks in advance for your help.


PS: By the way, I'm also considering a Rotel RB-1572 class D amp. Any thoughts on it?



I have not heard the USP-1 from Emotiva, but I own the 2100 and I can assure you that it is a fantastic piece of gear for the money. It has a very transparent (true to the source) sound to it. It also functions perfectly. I wouldn't put too much on the x-over situation as if you really measure the difference between high-passing your Sierras at 80Hz vs. 60Hz, you'd quickly see there isn't as much difference as you think you hear. Besides, you have a fantastic sub that I'd let do it's job and be happy.

I'm going to do something rare for me and tell you that Emotiva does not deserve people's money. They seem to have gotten sloppier than in the past and many pieces of gear have functionality issues. I used to own an Emotiva processor and amp and Lonnie refused to understand the processor issues I had. I sold the stuff and I've been watch Emotiva flop piece after piece, being VERY late with many pieces, and always running out of stock. Sorry, but add those things up and I'm not buying anything from them. There are MANY other better companies to buy from that take just as good care of there customers. Parasound is one of them.

Just my 2 cents, and as always, YMMV.
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post #182 of 652 Old 02-25-2010, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Hey Brandon,

I'm doing fine. I hope you are as well. I will have to check out Terry's thoughts on the MH 25.2 as it interests me very much. Don't feel that you are not the only one that didn't notice a big difference when using the PS DLIII. I didn't either but at times I wonder if I have the ears for it.

Take care, Bill

Bill,

I've listened to a few different DACs over the last year, and for me, nothing touches the PS Audio DLIII or the MH 25.2 for the money. Both DACs are very good and really the only difference is the MH brings a tube sound stage to the mix which I really like. The MH really needs upgraded opamps (I have Burson's) to better compete with the PS Audio DLIII. Nuance and I recently compared the two DACs side-by-side and the PS Audio has a little sharper top end while the MH is just slightly smoother. There were many tracks that none of us could tell much of a difference, but some did. Nuance prefers the PS Audio, and I the MH. However I think both of us could be happy with the other's DAC. The PS Audio has a solid state bass sound and the MH has a slightly more rounded bass sound due to the tube.

Please note that I'm also now running the Rogue Audio Perseus preamp with a Odyssey Stratos monoblocks. My MH is feeding the tube pre very well and the Odyssey amps seem to have combined to make a VERY good synergy for me. I really could not be happier. I'm looking forward to the next time Nuance can just visit to listen to some new music and converse vs. swapping gear and trying to critique everything.
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post #183 of 652 Old 02-25-2010, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

Bill,

I've listened to a few different DACs over the last year, and for me, nothing touches the PS Audio DLIII or the MH 25.2 for the money. Both DACs are very good and really the only difference is the MH brings a tube sound stage to the mix which I really like. The MH really needs upgraded opamps (I have Burson's) to better compete with the PS Audio DLIII. Nuance and I recently compared the two DACs side-by-side and the PS Audio has a little sharper top end while the MH is just slightly smoother. There were many tracks that none of us could tell much of a difference, but some did. Nuance prefers the PS Audio, and I the MH. However I think both of us could be happy with the other's DAC. The PS Audio has a solid state bass sound and the MH has a slightly more rounded bass sound due to the tube.

Please note that I'm also now running the Rogue Audio Perseus preamp with a Odyssey Stratos monoblocks. My MH is feeding the tube pre very well and the Odyssey amps seem to have combined to make a VERY good synergy for me. I really could not be happier. I'm looking forward to the next time Nuance can just visit to listen to some new music and converse vs. swapping gear and trying to critique everything.

Hey Terry,
Someone got some new gear So are you not using the 2100 and using the Rogue in its place then? Sounds as if you got away from the parasound amp & preamp. How does everything sound now? Very cool!
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post #184 of 652 Old 02-25-2010, 07:10 PM
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Thanks for your huge help merrymaid and TJHUB!
The 2100 is now on top of my list.

Do you think it will match well with a class D amp like the Rotel RB-1572?

Just trying to learn...
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post #185 of 652 Old 02-25-2010, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeveraggi View Post

Hi guys, I'm looking for a pre with HT bypass and bass management, and could really use some help.
I currently own a Denon 2809, Ascend Sierra LCR and a Rythmik F12SE sub, and would like to improve 2 channel listening.

Here are some thoughts on my two preamp main candidates:

Parasound 2100
-Around $600
-Well regarded brand, reliable.
-Cannot crossover speakers to sub lower than 80hz (it is fixed, right?).

Emotiva USP-1
-$399
-Emotiva seems to get lots of love AND hate around here.
-More flexible bass management.

Has anyone had a chance to hear them both? Do they have different SQ characteristics?
Are there any other options below $1000 I should consider?
Thanks in advance for your help.


PS: By the way, I'm also considering a Rotel RB-1572 class D amp. Any thoughts on it?

I did own the USP-1 for a short while but functionally the 2100 has it all over the USP-1 IMO. The biggest advantage the USP-1 has is a lower price, 5 year warranty and being able to set the High Pass crossover where the 2100's is fixed at 80Hz.

The 2100 has many advantages though:

Does not have to be powered up when using your HT system.
No bright non dimming blue lights
Subwoofer level control
MP3 input (if needed)
Much better remote
Balance, treble and bass controls (if needed)

I did find the USP-1 a tad brighter than the 2100 but I did not compare the two side by side so my thoughts could be off in that regard. But going off memory several CD tracks I played with both preamps the USP-1 did seem to add a touch of sibilance.

The HP and LP setting knobs on the USP-1 have no markings so trying to set them is kind of difficult especially if you are using a mirror with it in ones rack. I found in order to have an idea of where to set them you had to turn them all the way counter clockwise to get some form of reference.

So in the end I went with the 2100 and I am glad I did. The USP-1 is an excellent preamp but on the operational end it comes up short IMO.

I bought my 2100 from Audio Advisor as a "Open Box" which was not opened and actually a brand new unit for $399.00. Audio Advisor now has factory refreshed 2100s for $487.50 with a Parasound 3 year warranty. I can not think of any new sub $1000.00 preamps with HT Bypass that have the features of the 2100. You could try used on Audiogon but that usually means no warranty. Good luck!

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...umber=2PAC2100

Bill

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post #186 of 652 Old 02-25-2010, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

Bill,

I've listened to a few different DACs over the last year, and for me, nothing touches the PS Audio DLIII or the MH 25.2 for the money. Both DACs are very good and really the only difference is the MH brings a tube sound stage to the mix which I really like. The MH really needs upgraded opamps (I have Burson's) to better compete with the PS Audio DLIII. Nuance and I recently compared the two DACs side-by-side and the PS Audio has a little sharper top end while the MH is just slightly smoother. There were many tracks that none of us could tell much of a difference, but some did. Nuance prefers the PS Audio, and I the MH. However I think both of us could be happy with the other's DAC. The PS Audio has a solid state bass sound and the MH has a slightly more rounded bass sound due to the tube.

Well said. Swapping between the two DAC's had me grinning, because both were spectacular for the price. Either would synergize well with my 2100, which is just an awesome preamp for the price (of course). Definitely check it out, sbeveraggi.

As for class D, I am sure it will pair with the 2100 just fine. There's only one way to find out.

TJ,

Can't wait to come over and enjoy some tunes! That's what its all about.

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post #187 of 652 Old 02-26-2010, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I did own the USP-1 for a short while but functionally the 2100 has it all over the USP-1 IMO. The biggest advantage the USP-1 has is a lower price, 5 year warranty and being able to set the High Pass crossover where the 2100's is fixed at 80Hz.

The 2100 has many advantages though:

Does not have to be powered up when using your HT system.
No bright non dimming blue lights
Subwoofer level control
MP3 input (if needed)
Much better remote
Balance, treble and bass controls (if needed)

I did find the USP-1 a tad brighter than the 2100 but I did not compare the two side by side so my thoughts could be off in that regard. But going off memory several CD tracks I played with both preamps the USP-1 did seem to add a touch of sibilance.

The HP and LP setting knobs on the USP-1 have no markings so trying to set them is kind of difficult especially if you are using a mirror with it in ones rack. I found in order to have an idea of where to set them you had to turn them all the way counter clockwise to get some form of reference.

So in the end I went with the 2100 and I am glad I did. The USP-1 is an excellent preamp but on the operational end it comes up short IMO.

I bought my 2100 from Audio Advisor as a "Open Box" which was not opened and actually a brand new unit for $399.00. Audio Advisor now has factory refreshed 2100s for $487.50 with a Parasound 3 year warranty. I can not think of any new sub $1000.00 preamps with HT Bypass that have the features of the 2100. You could try used on Audiogon but that usually means no warranty. Good luck!



Bill


It sounds like the Parasound 2100 preamp is a no brainer,
as there is nothing on the market that has it's complete
set of features and advantages.

But, I just wonder if it sounds good enough. For example
if compared to W4S's STP-SE preamp, which is more than three
times the price, would the sound difference just be subtle or
night and day?

And I wonder what parasound might have up it's sleeve with
maybe a new updated version to match the Halo styling?

Best Regards,
Ken
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post #188 of 652 Old 02-26-2010, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartlink View Post

But, I just wonder if it sounds good enough. For example
if compared to W4S's STP-SE preamp, which is more than three
times the price, would the sound difference just be subtle or
night and day?

Best Regards,
Ken

Only you will know the answer to this question.
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post #189 of 652 Old 03-17-2010, 02:00 PM
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Just an update - did the firmware update to fix the remote issue. Works fine now - the hardest part was finding a dang serial cable (finally found one out in the garage ).

As for the sound difference between the RXV 2700 and the Parasound, the Parasound sounds a bit more "open" (sorry, my vocabulary is a bit limited - just getting back into the audio world). Still haven't gotten the new speakers in yet, so who knows what the total overall effect will be.

Right now I'm working on a rack system - will post pics when done
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post #190 of 652 Old 03-18-2010, 10:33 AM
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Does anyone have any experience with the P3 and how it compares to the 2100?

Thx.
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post #191 of 652 Old 03-18-2010, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tt_toe View Post

Does anyone have any experience with the P3 and how it compares to the 2100?

Thx.

They are both very very close in performance. P3 has balanced jacks where the 2100 does not.
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post #192 of 652 Old 03-21-2010, 01:10 AM
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I've been thinking about adding a 2100 to improve my 2-channel listening, yet it looks like they are around $650. Can you still get these open box for $400 somewhere?

Also, is there anything else that has as good bang for the buck as this parasound for around the same price or less? How about in regards to tube pre-amps?

thanks,

9G KURO equipped.
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post #193 of 652 Old 03-21-2010, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by PioBeer View Post

I've been thinking about adding a 2100 to improve my 2-channel listening, yet it looks like they are around $650. Can you still get these open box for $400 somewhere?

Also, is there anything else that has as good bang for the buck as this parasound for around the same price or less? How about in regards to tube pre-amps?

thanks,

Audio Advisor used to have them once and while "open box", but I haven't seen any for a long time now. The next cheapest place I've ever seen them "new" is the AVS Store. Call them, you'll like the price.

A "good" tube preamp will cost twice as much as the 2100 used and it won't have analog bass management. One of the main reasons to get the 2100 is its built-in bass management and x-over. If you don't need/want that feature, there are many other preamps out there. If you do, the 2100 is fairly unique.

If you want cheaper, you could look into the Emotiva USP-1, but it gets no recommendation from me.
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post #194 of 652 Old 03-21-2010, 09:42 AM
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PS Audio PCA-2 best kept secret in audio.
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post #195 of 652 Old 03-21-2010, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by n2siast View Post

PS Audio PCA-2 best kept secret in audio.

I had one of these and it is a fine sounding preamp with the benefit of the HT Bypass option. I really liked the way you could setup the PCA-2 as well. If only PS Audio would come out with a new version of the PCA-2 with a sub output with Bass Management.

Bill

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post #196 of 652 Old 03-29-2010, 08:19 AM
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I noticed that the HP is fixed at 80Hz where as the LP is variable.

I will be setting the mains as small. I am using a sub with a sub EQ Anti-Mode 8033. So if the HP is fixed at 80Hz I have to set the LP also at 80Hz. I would like to set the LP a bit higher say at 100 or so. Every ounce of bass EQ I get from the Anti-Mode is a plus for me. I would like to set the LP even higher say at 150 or so but my sub starts to roll off after some 120Hz.

This has been mainly keeping me on the fence. I could buy a new sub like SVS PB10-NSD (backordered) and set the LP higher but I dont want the same bass coming from the mains too. I dont want to use full range for the mains. Then what is the point in getting a 2ch pre-amp with bass management?

The Emotiva USP-1 has adjustable crossover for both HP and LP and I would presume they are linked. But USP-1 has some cons. No sub level control and the dumbos who wrote the manual didnt say what the those increments are for the HP/LP knob. So I will never know what I am settting. I need to call Emo support.

BTW I dont mind a bright pre-amp (if USP-1 is bright) as I like a bright sound. As long it does not sound like a background hiss, it is fine with me.

I would appreciate some feedback regarding the LP/HP on the 2100.


Thanks
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post #197 of 652 Old 03-29-2010, 08:34 AM
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Mupi,

I don't own the Parasound 2100 thus I have no experience with it. It's on my short list of candidates to replace an Outlaw 950 that I'm using to enjoy the 2 Ch outputs of my new Oppo 83 SE. I'm subscribed to this thread to learn from other's experiences with it.

I do own the SVS PB10. Actually two of the them in a dual sw setup for my front projection room (with SVS SB-01 speaker package). Also have a SVS PC12 Plus on another room...so I am a SVS fan.

I don't consider the PB10 a very musical sub at all. Furthermore it doesn't sound good crossed over > 80 Hz which you intend to do. It's a great sub at it's price point but if you are in this thread I presume music is very important to you.

Not relevant to this thread but perhaps relevant to you. Hope you find my experience helpful.

Regards.
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post #198 of 652 Old 03-29-2010, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KramerTC View Post

Mupi,

I don't own the Parasound 2100 thus I have no experience with it. It's on my short list of candidates to replace an Outlaw 950 that I'm using to enjoy the 2 Ch outputs of my new Oppo 83 SE. I'm subscribed to this thread to learn from other's experiences with it.

I do own the SVS PB10. Actually two of the them in a dual sw setup for my front projection room (with SVS SB-01 speaker package). Also have a SVS PC12 Plus on another room...so I am a SVS fan.

I don't consider the PB10 a very musical sub at all. Furthermore it doesn't sound good crossed over > 80 Hz which you intend to do. It's a great sub at it's price point but if you are in this thread I presume music is very important to you.

Not relevant to this thread but perhaps relevant to you. Hope you find my experience helpful.

Regards.

I hear a lot of people use the word "musical". What exactly do you mean when you say it is not musical. bass is bass whether it is 2ch or HT.
Also why it it not good above 80Hz. It has a nice flat response all the way to some 150hz.

I dont want my bass at 100db. I am also not that picky that the sub has to be flat within 2 or 3db. My main intension to EQ the bass as much as I could.

BTW SVS SB-01 is not the kind of speakers I would use for serious 2ch listening.
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post #199 of 652 Old 03-29-2010, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

I hear a lot of people use the word "musical". What exactly do you mean when you say it is not musical. bass is bass whether it is 2ch or HT.
Also why it it not good above 80Hz. It has a nice flat response all the way to some 150hz.

I dont want my bass at 100db. I am also not that picky that the sub has to be flat within 2 or 3db. My main intension to EQ the bass as much as I could.

BTW SVS SB-01 is not the kind of speakers I would use for serious 2ch listening.

Mupi,

I'll PM you as now we are hijacking the thread.
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post #200 of 652 Old 03-29-2010, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
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Mupi,

I'll PM you as now we are hijacking the thread.

Not really. We are talking about a pre-amp with bass management so any discussion about bass management is relevant.
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post #201 of 652 Old 03-29-2010, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

I will be setting the mains as small. I am using a sub with a sub EQ Anti-Mode 8033. So if the HP is fixed at 80Hz I have to set the LP also at 80Hz. I would like to set the LP a bit higher say at 100 or so. Every ounce of bass EQ I get from the Anti-Mode is a plus for me. I would like to set the LP even higher say at 150 or so but my sub starts to roll off after some 120Hz.

You can set LP as high as 140Hz, it is shown in the online manual for the 2100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

Not really. We are talking about a pre-amp with bass management so any discussion about bass management is relevant.

Discussion of bass management pertaining to the 2100 is certainly not off topic. But when discussing the SVS PB-10 sub the that would be off topic for this thread for which KramerTC is correct to discuss it by PM.

Bill

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post #202 of 652 Old 03-30-2010, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

You can set LP as high as 140Hz, it is shown in the online manual for the 2100.
Bill

You never ever understand my posts!
I am in no mood to argue with you.

To others who have played with the HP/LP on 2100:
--------------------------------------------------
My main concern is that the HP is fixed at 80Hz so by setting the LP higher than 80Hz, I am sending that bass to both the mains and the sub. If I dont want to send bass to both mains and sub then I have to set the LP at 80Hz.
This will be a deal breaker for me as I like to set the LP higher and at the same time I want to be able to set the HP also higher as I can do on the Emotiva USP-1. But the issue with the USP-1 is that the bass level cant be adjusted. Darn!

When I asked if the LP and HP are linked, I meant to ask if they roll off so that the blend is good.

I really dont understand why Parasound provided a variable LP but a fixed HP. It would make a lot of sense to provide a variable HP as well as that would help those who are setting the mains as small.
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post #203 of 652 Old 03-30-2010, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

You never ever understand my posts!
I am in no mood to argue with you.

To others who have played with the HP/LP on 2100:
--------------------------------------------------
My main concern is that the HP is fixed at 80Hz so by setting the LP higher than 80Hz, I am sending that bass to both the mains and the sub. If I dont want to send bass to both mains and sub then I have to set the LP at 80Hz.
This will be a deal breaker for me as I like to set the LP higher and at the same time I want to be able to set the HP also higher as I can do on the Emotiva USP-1. But the issue with the USP-1 is that the bass level cant be adjusted. Darn!

When I asked if the LP and HP are linked, I meant to ask if they roll off so that the blend is good.

I really dont understand why Parasound provided a variable LP but a fixed HP. It would make a lot of sense to provide a variable HP as well as that would help those who are setting the mains as small.

What speakers and sub are you running such that you want to set the LP and HP higher than 80Hz anyways? Even with the LP set at 80Hz there is plenty of signal in the 80-160 range going to the sub.

Crossing the LP higher gets you into the localizable bass range where I would only do it if I had separate L/R subs co-located with the mains.

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post #204 of 652 Old 03-30-2010, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

You never ever understand my posts!
I am in no mood to argue with you.

Not sure what your problem is but you posted this earlier:

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Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

I would like to set the LP a bit higher say at 100 or so. Every ounce of bass EQ I get from the Anti-Mode is a plus for me. I would like to set the LP even higher say at 150 or so but my sub starts to roll off after some 120Hz.

And I responded with what I thought was an answer for question:

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You can set LP as high as 140Hz, it is shown in the online manual for the 2100.

Of course you explained in more detail in the below post what you were attempting to accomplish with the 2100 which you did not do in your earlier post. So how is anyone including myself going to understand your posts or questions if you are not clear in what you intend to do. So why don't you calm down a little and not blame me for your lack of detail which you even admit that you did. As Rick points out it would not be the best idea to set either LP or HP settings higher than 80Hz as your sub will be easily located. That is what I have found as well when experimenting with the 2100 and numerous prepros. All this because I tried to help you out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

My main concern is that the HP is fixed at 80Hz so by setting the LP higher than 80Hz, I am sending that bass to both the mains and the sub. If I dont want to send bass to both mains and sub then I have to set the LP at 80Hz.
This will be a deal breaker for me as I like to set the LP higher and at the same time I want to be able to set the HP also higher as I can do on the Emotiva USP-1. But the issue with the USP-1 is that the bass level cant be adjusted. Darn!

When I asked if the LP and HP are linked, I meant to ask if they roll off so that the blend is good.

Bill

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post #205 of 652 Old 03-30-2010, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

What speakers and sub are you running such that you want to set the LP and HP higher than 80Hz anyways? Even with the LP set at 80Hz there is plenty of signal in the 80-160 range going to the sub.

Crossing the LP higher gets you into the localizable bass range where I would only do it if I had separate L/R subs co-located with the mains.

You didnt understand my issue either.

The main idea of sending higher than 80Hz to the sub is to EQ as much bass as possible using my Anti-Mode 8033 Sub EQ.

For the records I am uisng Magnepan MG12's and Sunfire TrueSub Junior.

The speaker or sub I am using does not matter. Like I said before I am using a sub EQ so I like to send as much bass to the sub as possible. Yes I am aware of the localized bass. Geez! Dont treat me like I am using BOSE acoustimass module! I have the option to put the sub in the middle so I can send as high as 150 Hz to the bass. With my existing sub I can only go to some 120Hz as the sub rolls off after some 120Hz. The manual does not show the FR of the sub. But based on measurements I figured the sub does not go higher than some 120Hz. Where as with the SVS PB10-NSD I could easily go to 150hz and still be within 3-4 db.

BTW: IMO there is no such thing as musical sub. If the sub can handle the bass it does not matter whether the signal sent is music or HT. The sub does not know that it is being fed music or HT :-) LOL. The issue is whether you want it to be loud or go deeper. A sub cant go very deep and be loud at the same time. This is not my theory. It is very well known. That is why HSU gives an option of variable tuning with 2 ports and a port foam in some models. I dont care about playing loud. So I dont care about port tuning.
Anyway...that is besides the point in discussion.


Now the signal sent to the sub from 2100 beyond the set LP value depends on the slope. So if I set the LP at 80 sure there will be some signal beyond 80 sent to the sub depending on the cross over slope. Which is good for me as I get to EQ that too. At the same time the mains will also roll of from 80Hz so there is less bass going to the mains under 80Hz. So I am not doubling the bass.

The issue is if I use a higher cross over for LP than 80Hz. In this case the mains are still crossed over at 80Hz but I am also sending more signal over 80hz to the sub.

If you still didnt get it forget it.
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Not sure what your problem is but you posted this earlier:



And I responded with what I thought was an answer for question:



Of course you explained in more detail in the below post what you were attempting to accomplish with the 2100 which you did not do in your earlier post. So how is anyone including myself going to understand your posts or questions if you are not clear in what you intend to do. So why don't you calm down a little and not blame me for your lack of detail which you even admit that you did. As Rick points out it would not be the best idea to set either LP or HP settings higher than 80Hz as your sub will be easily located. That is what I have found as well when experimenting with the 2100 and numerous prepros. All this because I tried to help you out.



Bill

I do know that bass can get localized but with what I am doing like 120-150hz I dont think it is a big concern for me and like I said I have the option to put the sub in the middle. If I find it bothersome I will know and I can always reduce the cross over.

You have to give other members some credit. I am not a BOSE user and do have some understanding of how bass works. So no need for unsolicited advice.

It is better to have the options so that I can experiment with it than not have any options and get stuck with what is available.

Do me a favor. Please do not respond to my posts at AVS. You never get my point and keep arguing back and forth and like I said I am in no mood to get into this constant bickering with you.
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Mupi,

I think you're being a little hard on some of your fellow posters and Bill is one heck of nice guy. I just thought you should know that.

I think to LP any sub around 100Hz or higher is bad. The main issue is that most, if not all, subs don't sound good above the 80-100Hz range. They get boomey sounding and just very unpleasant in general. I don't care what any manufacturer states about their frequency response. Things like male voices will sound VERY bloated, and midbass will sound weird. I wish I could explain myself better, but I can't.

I understand what you are trying to do, but I don't think it will work for you. You will have to try it for yourself and make your own decision. I think you should try and measure your room with something like Room EQ Wizard and try speaker positioning and room treatments vs. a sub with a LP that is far too high. This is a far better approach for someone who is serious about sound quality. If it were as simple as a high LP on subs, don't you think everyone would be doing it that way?

All that said, in my experience 80Hz is a solid HP point for most situations. The logic behind the variable LP on the 2100 is to have the ability to control the overlap between the mains and sub. Sometimes it can sound "better" with some overlap, other times it can sound "better" with little or none. You have to listen and determine for yourself. It would be nice for the 2100 to have an adjustable HP filter, but I never found it crippling in any way.

As for your situation, I'd say just get the Emotiva USP-1. It has the adjustable HP and LP filters you *need*. I wouldn't worry about having any subwoofer level adjustment on the preamp itself because if your Anti-Mode works at all (which is does), you should not feel the need to ever adjust the bass level on the fly. Most people that feel they do need a sub adjustment is because they don't have a flat frequency response from 80Hz down. When my sub is flat, I never want to adjust the bass level.

I hope this post isn't upsetting to you in any way as that was not my intention.
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post #208 of 652 Old 03-30-2010, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=Mupi;18404275]
Quote:


I do know that bass can get localized but with what I am doing like 120-150hz I dont think it is a big concern for me and like I said I have the option to put the sub in the middle. If I find it bothersome I will know and I can always reduce the cross over.

Mupi,

This is of course an option that if it works well for you and sounds good to you then that is all that needs to be said.

Quote:


You have to give other members some credit. I am not a BOSE user and do have some understanding of how bass works. So no need for unsolicited advice.

I give other members of this forum credit all the time. I am by far not the most knowledgable person on this forum and have learnt so much over the years from the many members here. I never thought you were a Bose user or that you were not an intelligent person. If I make a mistake whether it be by giving the wrong advice or my tone I apologize right away. You were not clear in you previous post on what you were trying to accomplish. I was just trying to help you out but you saw it that I was being argumentive.

Quote:


It is better to have the options so that I can experiment with it than not have any options and get stuck with what is available.

Both the USP-1 and the 2100 are excellent preamps. The USP-1 seems to be the better choice for you and I also feel unless you buy one and try it in your system you can debate the positives and the negatives till the cows come home. The USP-1 has a 30 day return policy or you could buy one on Audiogon.

Quote:


Do me a favor. Please do not respond to my posts at AVS. You never get my point and keep arguing back and forth and like I said I am in no mood to get into this constant bickering with you.

Fair enough I will not respond after this post to any of your future posts. Thats too bad as I have experience with both the USP-1 and the 2100. Maybe I do not have as much knowledge as you but I have owned both preamps you are seeking information for which at times does have some value. The fact that you are in no mood to bicker is not my problem and I feel I am not being the least bit difficult. Sometimes it is the tone that one communicates here on AVS that says it all to other members. Good luck with your preamp search and I hope you find one that will work well for you.

Bill

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post #209 of 652 Old 03-30-2010, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

Mupi,

I think you're being a little hard on some of your fellow posters and Bill is one heck of nice guy. I just thought you should know that.

I think to LP any sub around 100Hz or higher is bad. The main issue is that most, if not all, subs don't sound good above the 80-100Hz range. They get boomey sounding and just very unpleasant in general. I don't care what any manufacturer states about their frequency response. Things like male voices will sound VERY bloated, and midbass will sound weird. I wish I could explain myself better, but I can't.

I understand what you are trying to do, but I don't think it will work for you. You will have to try it for yourself and make your own decision. I think you should try and measure your room with something like Room EQ Wizard and try speaker positioning and room treatments vs. a sub with a LP that is far too high. This is a far better approach for someone who is serious about sound quality. If it were as simple as a high LP on subs, don't you think everyone would be doing it that way?



I hope this post isn't upsetting to you in any way as that was not my intention.


Why do you presume I didnt measure my room? Again unsolicited advice under the presumption that I am ignorant. I have used many Behringer PEQ's and I have measured my room.

Anyway... I am out of here. It is pointless to stay here and argue.
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post #210 of 652 Old 03-30-2010, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Why do you presume I didnt measure my room? Again unsolicited advice under the presumption that I am ignorant. I have used many Behringer PEQ's and I have measured my room.

Anyway... I am out of here. It is pointless to stay here and argue.

Well I'm going against what I posted earlier that I would not respond to your posts. Maybe if you mentioned the fact that you measured your room would have helped. So here you are "bickering" with a knowledgeable and very respected member here in TJHUB.

All I can say is good riddance to you. Maybe you can go to another thread, sub forum or a totally different forum to argue with the members there. Or maybe you can just argue with yourself which is what I see you doing anyhow. Do you ever look in the mirror and ask "is it everybody else or could it be me...".

Now maybe we can get this thread back to where it was earlier that being a nice respectful discussion about the 2100.

Bill

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