Why don't stereo receivers have equalizers anymore? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 10-18-2009, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Why don't stereo receivers have equalizers anymore? Back in the 80s/early 90s stereos had 5 sliders on the front or some sort of graphic equalizer. The new ones out on the market today just have balance/bass/treble rotary switches. Also, a lot of older stereos had a push button loudness button. That seems to have "disappeared, too."
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post #2 of 12 Old 10-18-2009, 07:27 PM
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Stereo receivers have taken a back seat to AVRs these days. AVRs have room correction algorithms which do the work of equalizers and more.

The sleeper must awaken.
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post #3 of 12 Old 10-18-2009, 07:55 PM
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I suspect they weren't a feature that was used very much, and manufacturers decided it wasn't worth the extra two bucks to include them.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #4 of 12 Old 10-18-2009, 09:26 PM
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What are you talking about? CheckTHIS out!
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post #5 of 12 Old 10-18-2009, 09:29 PM
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What are you talking about? CheckTHIS out!

LOL! Oh dear...

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post #6 of 12 Old 10-18-2009, 09:50 PM
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lol. i bet that adds another four quads per channel

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #7 of 12 Old 10-18-2009, 09:52 PM
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my guess is that the market ceased to be there for those limited graphic EQs. For "serious" sound freaks, any analog EQ became anathema because of negative effects. I would imagine that the EQs in even fairly expensive units created measurable problems that were hard to hide from in a spec-driven sales environment. If people had been clamoring for it, it would have continued to exist, as it did until at least fairly recently in car audio, where the problems are bigger and the noise floor is such that an EQ does not need anything like studio level performance to be a net enhancement, if you're into that kind of thing.
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post #8 of 12 Old 10-22-2009, 01:38 AM
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serious sound freaks like Audyssey.
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post #9 of 12 Old 10-22-2009, 03:06 PM
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Because eq is best served by room treatments and letting your brain take care of the rest. EQ is grossly overrated. IMHO. (I have no doubt arguments are about to ensue). Most 2-chanel is only for those of us who care most about sound, not effects. The manufactures don't put on features we won't buy. ( last sentence is why you don't see them)

Your BRAIN will re-balance all but the worst problems (peaks are bad). It will just adjust and remember the environment.
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post #10 of 12 Old 10-22-2009, 04:23 PM
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Because eq is best served by room treatments and letting your brain take care of the rest. EQ is grossly overrated. IMHO. (I have no doubt arguments are about to ensue). Most 2-chanel is only for those of us who care most about sound, not effects. The manufactures don't put on features we won't buy. ( last sentence is why you don't see them).

Sure they do. DEQX HDP-3 or TacT 2.2XP for example. Lower cost solutions from DEQX and others are readily available, though they're not always transparent and typically require a fair amount of user knowledge and setup.

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Your BRAIN will re-balance all but the worst problems (peaks are bad). It will just adjust and remember the environment.

Your brain can't balance out dips and peaks as high as those typically found in even the best-treated rooms, nor will it filter out ringing. IME, the difference in a well-implemented, EQ'd 2 ch system vs. non-EQ'd is striking, even in a well-treated room.
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post #11 of 12 Old 10-23-2009, 12:53 AM
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Psychocoustics is a bit more complicated that. It has sort of been a hobby of mine for 40 or so years. The question is: What clues will make your brain believe what it is hearing is real? Handy perspective to a speaker builder hobbyist.

So on eq,
I did not really say it will filter them out, It will recognize the signature of the room and make overall adjustments as it accepts the environment over time.

As an example, when I first set up my audio all over this house. Different speakers, several rooms. The eq was drastically different room to room. About two weeks later, you could walk from my BR with Boston wall plates, to the living room with Paradigms, office with Kef's, guest room with my own and so on without noticing large differences in overall character. This is my brain remembering the rooms signature.

Second example. I replaced some Warfdales in one room with a new pair of mine, spent days playing with the absorbers, angles, crossovers etc. Got it pretty darn flat for the fixed listening position. Much brighter than the old Diamonds. Walk into the room, BANG, bright. A week later, the room signature is re-calibrated in my head. I do not hear an overall timber difference between rooms. I do hear the better detail and articulation as the new speakers are quite a bit lower in distortion.

That said, you may walk into the very same rooms and detect the guest room is bright, living a bit pushy in the upper mids, office a bit dull. YOUR brain is not calibrated to the signatures in my house. This makes EQ very important in public settings.

Again, big peaks are bad news whatever. Dips if not too wide, you can't hear even right off.

So, my postulate is that electronic eq within your accustomed listening environment is not that important. Flat lines on a chart do not convince me what I am hearing is music. Least we forget: Playing a real instrument in the very same room will have the same eq issues as playing a speaker. Spend your money on room treatments and better speakers, not eq. Or just buy more music.

"not always transparent". Understatement of the year. ( IMHO)
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post #12 of 12 Old 10-28-2009, 11:17 PM
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While it's true that our ears will filter out the "room response", our ears can't filter out the direct sound and all other sources of sound (early reflections) that happen inside the Haas window.

There seems to be two solutions to this problem...force the early reflections to be lower in amplitude, but let them arrive right away and decay naturally....or force an anechoic response for the Haas window and then set the natural decay off the first late arriving reflection.

Both solutions, however, don't involve the use of EQ except for the tailoring of the direct sound. The goal of EQ'ing the direct sound is to maintain the timbre balance of the sound that is projected into the room. For speakers without constant coverage, the sound will need to be tweaked a bit to compromise the direct sound with the overall power response.

Any frequency response aberration is going to cause a corresponding shift in the phase response. If it is minimum phase, then a filter of matching Q and gain will fix both the amplitude and phase response. The fixed bands of a graphic equalizer don't allow for this level of fine-tuning.

I think the main reason that graphic equalizers don't exist anymore is because the modern mass markets just want plug and play....the graphic EQ is more of a tweaker type thing that lends itself to constant adjustment. Also, it seems like the majority of people just end up with smiley face EQ curves, which can be just as easily accomplished with two tone controls. The typical speakers these days seem to have better tonal balance as well.

Of course it sucks for someone that still wants one anyway, but I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done with a more discrete route. I would highly recommend looking at the Ashly units:
http://www.ashly.com/gqxseriesgraphic.html

-Mike Bentz
~It's all about compromise~
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