2-Channel Analog Interconnects/Speaker Cables - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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post #481 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 05:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Seriously, why not just go to Home Depot? They have cables that are just as good, right?

Why shill for Belden and Canare?

Because they don't have cables that are just as good. Not even close, at least as far as cabling other than speaker cable. As far as coax, audio, category cabling, data coax, etc home depot stuff is run of the mill, it certainly is not broadcast grade stuff.
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post #482 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 05:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

I suggest again, extended listening. DBT shows that differences between amplifiers and CDP's are not discernible. Does this mean there is no audible difference?

Blinded tests between CDs and amplifiers do show audible differences.

I did a blinded CD test myself, and it's quite obvious.
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post #483 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 05:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

I think Chris was really referring to 'cooking' the cable, not burning it.

I prefer a smokey sound in my system, so I always pre-grill my cables with some good soaked alderwood. It gives the tonalities a full-bodied, earthy/woody presence to them, with just a touch of crispness that really complements the midranges.
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post #484 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 06:45 PM
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Now I am not going to say cables do or don't make a difference here but... why is it that i see all these people saying cable is cable but yet turn around and say you need to use quad star solid core cable from such and such. They are good price, etc, etc. So why not just use cable from Home Depot, or just any other run of the mill cable. Just seems funny that some can put down one cable yet on the flip side say you should be using these one because they are good for some of the same reasons the other cable are good, yet Home Deopt are not as good. Come on people try to at least keep it one way or the other, either cable is cable or some are better than others. You should either choose good wire or just use coat hangers, you can't have it both ways.

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post #485 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

I followed that caper.That never happened, not like that. Most likely it was withdrawn as he would not agree to some of the conditions and had some of his own weird ones.
James Randi has posts on this caper as well maybe you need to read them???

"Most likely" isn't factual. It happened as I said. I posted the story at the beginning of the thread.

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post #486 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

Which product name / number of MIT Cables or JPS Labs do they use at Skywalker Sound studio?

You have not answered my questions.

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post #487 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

And, that will do what for you? Memory is short for small differences, hence this practice is rather useless. But, DBT has no time limits And, sighted comparisons are just so dinosaur.

Prove that you can maintain control in a DBT. Perform one, document it, and post your findings here.

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post #488 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Well, I have seen Mapleshade's web page. Nothing further needs to be said; oh, except it is full of snake oil products.

Can you make and sell recordings of their caliber?

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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

What cables are used at Skywalker? Perhaps some THX certified cables?

Perhaps you should provide proof of your claim that the cables are THX certified.

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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Oh, and just because they use exotic cables, doesn't mean a thing to the quality of the recordings. Zero.

Oh, then they could just run on down to the Home Depot then.

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post #489 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Ah, testimonials WOW, is that evidence? Maybe I should but some of the stuff Summers sells on TV?
You mean that these two guys are infallible, above reproach, Jerry Steckling
Acoustic Engineering, Skywalker Sound and
Aaron Reiff? Really?

My post was a reply to Giz's post. He emailed Skywalker Sound. Remember?

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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

How did they test the cables??? Or, their testimonials are the result of getting the studio wires for free?

Yes, Skywalker Sound is hurting for cash, and this is one way they stay in the black. If you bothered to read, you would notice that it is mentioned that they tested the cables.

Did you test your cables? How did you test them?

Maybe you should give Skywalker Sound a jingle, sounds like you could help them out. They need guys like you.

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post #490 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

But you are trying to pass off your subjective evaluation as reliable? Or is that just my memory lapse.



Actually, what others are amazed about doesn't really speak for itself. Just another biased observation, and failure of memory at work.
Unfortunately your protocol, not that it is not DBT, of such time lapses hinders your judgement, in fact. Time passes and memory fades for small changes rather fast. Not my opinion but memory researchers data results.

So... extended listening is prone to time lapses hindering judgment.

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post #491 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

Blinded tests between CDs and amplifiers do show audible differences.

I did a blinded CD test myself, and it's quite obvious.

Prove this claim. Otherwise it is worthless.

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post #492 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post


BTW Tess, the scope trace JS posted was NOT a FR performance graph. It was a rather noisy and poor quality scope trace of some sort of notch filtered device with a severe dropoff BEFORE 20k.


Are you Scottish? I'm hearing an accent from you that sounds like it's from the other side of the pond.

The old graph was from a discontinued model of our interconnect. It's not a FR plot, but rather a distortion plot.

I'm already spending most of my weekend on updated packaging graphics so schools out for now. Later...

Be the sage.
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post #493 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:26 PM
 
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why is it that i see all these people saying cable is cable but yet turn around and say you need to use quad star solid core cable from such and such.

I don't recall someone posting that we need to use star quad solid core cable from such and such. Can you point it out? Thanks.

Quote:


Just seems funny that some can put down one cable yet on the flip side say you should be using these one because they are good for some of the same reasons the other cable are good, yet Home Deopt are not as good.

Not as good for what? Can you be more specific?

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Come on people try to at least keep it one way or the other, either cable is cable or some are better than others. You should either choose good wire or just use coat hangers, you can't have it both ways.

Who tried to have it both ways?
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post #494 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:30 PM
 
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You have not answered my questions.

In other words you do not know which audio cables they use. Thanks for the confirmation.
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post #495 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:33 PM
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bigbare.... you have a PM.

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post #496 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

In other words you do not know which audio cables they use. Thanks for the confirmation.

You still haven't answered my questions. Conversation is two sided.

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post #497 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:42 PM
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[quote=Gizmologist;18499218]Canare is considered the premier cable in the industry for several reasons. Quad star lay for dramatically reduced noise incursion. Extremely durable jacket, excellent shielding, great price, ready availability, excellent FR characteristics through the entire audio spectrum.
[quote]

Yet the other companies are all lying?! Still no one say use home depot wire and instead say one should be buying cable like this?! I am just assuming since cable makes no difference really that nice cheap solid built home depot cable is what all are using. Yet I don't see anyone saying just go out and buy the real cheap stuff from them or Radio Shack for that matter, yet push for Canare and Belden. Just seams a bit off if you follow me. Like I said I won't claim or even suggest cables make a difference, I have 12ga wire that I paid less than $.50 a foot for.

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post #498 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Prove this claim. Otherwise it is worthless.

Are you questioning my integrity? Prove what? I did a blinded test between CD players myself, which I have described elsewhere. There certainly are differences, though subtle, between different DAC/analog stages, which is why CD players can sound subtly different.

I am simply making a statement of fact, that I have done a blinded test to verify whether a CD player sounded different and whether I should keep or sell a CD player. The blinded test proved to me that there were, in fact, audible differences and that I was certain through a blinded test that I could (and did) differentiate between CD player and receiver decoding.

Are you saying that I am lying and that I am simply making this up? Because I have some significant monetary motivation to have found the opposite: that CD players don't differ. But that is not what I found, which is unfortunate for my wallet. Because I would have sold a rather expensive CD player and just used a cheapie as a transport and I'd be many hundreds of dollars richer for it if they were not audibly different or if I preferred the receiver's DACs, so...
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post #499 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:56 PM
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If that is your idea of a good clean distortion plot, it is a good thing I would never use your cables. Second, you posted that scope screen shot as a comparison to the graph I linked to from Canare which was a FR plot.

"why is it that I see all these people saying cable is cable but yet turn around and say you need to use quad star solid core cable from such and such.?"

None said anything of the sort. BTW, solid conductors are NOT used for portable anything.You need to reread the posts. There are numerous reasons for using a quadstar designed cable and several legit commercial manufacturers make them now. Canare has the best rep for durability, flexibility, price, clean signal primarily for true balanced mic and line level signals between sources. It also comes in 10 colors but so does Belden's Brilliance series.

I prefer Canare as it is a bit more flexible and the jacketing and lay are easy to work with. Canare also makes digital cables, RGB HV bundle cables (industry standard), and coax for digital and baseband video. They also make excellent speaker cable but unlike the wallet buster guys, Canare and Belden et all actually publish the specs.

JS abjectly refuses to post any tech data as I firmly believe sno such data from real tests exists. PROVE ME WRONG Joe.
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post #500 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 07:58 PM
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Try to read the post. I did NOT email MIT. I emailed Skywalker Sound.

The other guys I know personally.
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post #501 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

Try to read the post. I did NOT email MIT. I emailed Skywalker Sound.

The other guys I know personally.

I read the post, I made a mistake typing too fast. Post edited, thanks.

What other guys do you know?

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post #502 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 08:09 PM
 
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You still haven't answered my questions. Conversation is two sided.

I assure you, what I own has nothing to do with what I post here. I thank you again for confirming your lack of familiarity on sound studios.
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post #503 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

Are you questioning my integrity? Prove what? I did a blinded test between CD players myself, which I have described elsewhere. There certainly are differences, though subtle, between different DAC/analog stages, which is why CD players can sound subtly different.

I am simply making a statement of fact, that I have done a blinded test to verify whether a CD player sounded different and whether I should keep or sell a CD player. The blinded test proved to me that there were, in fact, audible differences and that I was certain through a blinded test that I could (and did) differentiate between CD player and receiver decoding.

Are you saying that I am lying and that I am simply making this up? Because I have some significant monetary motivation to have found the opposite: that CD players don't differ. But that is not what I found, which is unfortunate for my wallet. Because I would have sold a rather expensive CD player and just used a cheapie as a transport and I'd be many hundreds of dollars richer for it if they were not audibly different or if I preferred the receiver's DACs, so...

I also believe that electronics have their own sound. Imagine that!

I just don't think that your simply saying so is going to carry much weight in here. If it does, then that tells us new guys a lot about how the AVS 2 Channel forum really works.

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post #504 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 08:12 PM
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You are comparing oranges to apples.

quote=Gizmologist; Canare is considered the premier cable in the industry for several reasons. Quad star lay for dramatically reduced noise incursion. Extremely durable jacket, excellent shielding, great price, ready availability, excellent FR characteristics through the entire audio spectrum." unquote


From BB: "Yet the other companies are all lying?! Still no one say use home depot wire and instead say one should be buying cable like this?! I am just assuming since cable makes no difference really that nice cheap solid built home depot cable is what all are using. Yet I don't see anyone saying just go out and buy the real cheap stuff from them or Radio Shack for that matter, yet push for Canare and Belden. Just seams a bit off if you follow me. Like I said I won't claim or even suggest cables make a difference, I have 12ga wire that I paid less than $.50 a foot for."

Canare quadstar is not designed for speaker or unbalanced IC however it can be used. There will be no real dramatic change in SQ from a standard single ended IC. The noise immunity is of paramount importance in balanced signals in the pro world as these cables are intermingled with all types of other signals with clock, data, high and low level audio, mic lines, lighting and power cables etc.Several other manufacturers make equally as good a cable in the same genre and we use them all. I just prefer Canare for the reason i have listed. ____

For instance, Beldens 8412 was the industry standard for almost 60 years. It is a 2 conductor, 18 awg braided shielded pair with rubber conductor insulation and outer jacket with cotton thread cable packing inside. That cable is still available but most do not use it as it will dry out and become brittle and the rubber jacket is a PIA to work with as opposed to the silicone based jacketing and conductor insulation of many newer series.

For speaker cable I use 12-4 SO or SJO rubber jacketed as it is tough readily available, cheap and reliable. I buy it from Anixter, HD. Lowe's, and Graybar.

When we make large quantities of connectorized cables we buy 5,000ft spools from Anixter Lowe's and HD carry 250ft spools which we buy on emergency basis but they sound just the same as they are both 12 awg and made of copper, the most important reason.

Several hundred thousand feet per year avg.

If you noticed, the majority of the big selling points are based on physical/ mechanical properties and no voodoo audiophool sales hype. We make our living using equipment and cables that MUST work, sound and look good and be reliable. That is why we use what we do.
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post #505 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

I assure you, what I own has nothing to do with what I post here. I thank you again for confirming your lack of familiarity on sound studios.

I have confirmed no such thing. I have the answer to your question. I assure you, what MIT products they use has nothing to do with what I post here. I have established that they do indeed use MIT, that was the intent of my post to Giz that you feel the need to pester me about.

Thanks for your valuable contributions to this forum.

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post #506 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 08:18 PM
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You have just dropped back to trolldom. All you ever say is unsupported claims about which you personally have zero knowledge and it is quite apparent. You really should stop digging that hole now.
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post #507 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 08:21 PM
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In other words you do not know which audio cables they use. Thanks for the confirmation.

You are out of your league. Time to stand down!
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post #508 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 08:21 PM
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You have just dropped back to trolldom. All you ever say is unsupported claims about which you personally have zero knowledge and it is quite apparent. You really should stop digging that hole now.

I countered your claim that Skywalker uses MIT, and offered proof. WTH are you talking about?

Calling me a troll is just a cop out, and it is getting old.

I ask again, what other guys were you referring to?

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post #509 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 08:27 PM
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Good for you Giz. Not seeing the apples to oranges though. Its all good copper wire, if one claims sonic accuracy thats called marketing. Besides the comments are not ment for only one idividual but if you take the time and really read around you see alot of this kind of stuff going on. Some people such as yourself say buy the cheapest stuff and actually do, others will only buy certain products such as the Canare, Belden, etc. and say sonic performance and blah, blah, blah. No different than components, buy for specs blah, blah, blah, do as I say not as I do, blah, blah. Some are doers some are the folowers do as I say not as I do, then start arguments blame the other "side". Goes both ways.

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post #510 of 1116 Old 04-17-2010, 08:28 PM
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Having MIT say they sell to Skywalker? Really Tess.
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