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post #31 of 39 Old 11-01-2012, 07:06 PM
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, I realized how stunning and magical be outlaw receiver is. The metaphor that I drew was that listening to the Harman Kardon was like driving at night with only a single point in the road in front of you. The Harman Kardon has a mesmerizing centerpoint. However the outlaw receiver is like driving through Manhattan at lunchtime with taxis and buildings and bicycles and sounds and lights all around you. To the uninitiated this could be very daunting as it was for me

Jeez, channeling the moonies and the worst of stereophool magazine..again.
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I have been putting my toes into the pond of more expensive amplification. Currently I am playing with a Bryston B60R, Behringer EP4000 and an Exposure 2010S2. All of these amplifiers have distinct musical signatures.

May one call a load of crap what it is?

I sold my brystons (I owned a 4bst and a 4b among others for years) to replace them with a hypex amp and an old Quad 405. In direct AB test when the amps were driven within their limits I was not able to discern a difference...the Quad cost me less than 15$ second hand, and the big filter caps do not look healthy at all.

So, from my considered opinion to your considered opinion I think you are posting some kind of poo. On my side I have the support of several listening test that show that there is little to absolutely no evidence that any amp driven within its limits and specs that are within several percentage points of each other can be distinguished.
If the FR measures flat - where for f..ks sake should "brightness" come from? Or a low bass? Magical realism?
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post #32 of 39 Old 11-02-2012, 03:43 AM
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Kraut, you are just tantruming at yourself because you bought into the hype of audiophilia originally. Now you are telling yourself that your pro amps are equal to expensive amps and thus superior due to the money savings. Wow, please enlighten the other hobbyists about how things really are. cool.gif I don't doubt that you have a lot to contribute but when you serve it up with a condescending attitude you are doing the same things audiosnobs do; look down on others rather than looking at this as a shared learning experience.

Okay, I have been sitting in front of my Outlaw driving b&w 805n for two years now listening to a sadly limited range of music. So, when swapping amps to the Exposure I hear a different sound. My ears say, "that sounds different."

Not better but different.

I'm not trying to convince you. Just what I find with my ears.
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post #33 of 39 Old 11-02-2012, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kraut View Post

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, I realized how stunning and magical be outlaw receiver is. The metaphor that I drew was that listening to the Harman Kardon was like driving at night with only a single point in the road in front of you. The Harman Kardon has a mesmerizing centerpoint. However the outlaw receiver is like driving through Manhattan at lunchtime with taxis and buildings and bicycles and sounds and lights all around you. To the uninitiated this could be very daunting as it was for me

Jeez, channeling the moonies and the worst of stereophool magazine..again.
Quote:
I have been putting my toes into the pond of more expensive amplification. Currently I am playing with a Bryston B60R, Behringer EP4000 and an Exposure 2010S2. All of these amplifiers have distinct musical signatures.

May one call a load of crap what it is?

I'd recommend a little more tact, ;-)

...but having listened extensively to Bryston and Behringer amps in DBTs, what I see is more evidence of the failings of casual sighted evaluations in the quoted comments, than anything else.

Comparing AVRs can be extra crispy because of all the setup options and listening settings that can actually make them sound different.
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post #34 of 39 Old 11-02-2012, 07:20 AM
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tantruming at yourself because you bought into the hype of audiophilia

Interesting word creation.
But I do not throw a tantrum here...you haven't seen me in action yet.
I never "bought" into the audiophile hype, I just thought about it, thought there might be something to it (also I never ever bought the amp sound qualifications, that did not make any sense to me in light of FR curves.
I always thought that distortions might be responsible for the difference in reproduction of the sound of music and voices. I also liked the Brystons for their heft and build.
When I decided to go the computer audio route, the first thing I did was to try an "integrated" system, one that would utilize an amp that would be fed by one cable from the computer soundcard (spdif) and would have an on board DAC, the hypex fit the bill.
This idea came from David Messinger in Austria, who builds high end active speakers (he owns a audio store in Vienna http://www.hifiaktiv.at/ ) and used hypex at the time.
I tested the hypex AS 2.100 extensively for several weeks before I confirmed that there was no discernible difference in SQ between them and the Brystons, when driving the kef 104/2 at even loud levels.
I sold my whole audio chain (bryston BP 20 pre, bryston 4Bst for the kefs, bryston 4b for the diy compound loaded sub, plus varius behringer DSP units) and then build my own server using a m-audio 1010lt soundcard and the hypex build in dsp to feed a bash-300 amp for the sub woofers).

I lately came into the possession via a second hand store of a pair klipsch heresies (19$) , whose sound, after extensive listening sessions, I preferred to the kefs. I use those with subwoofer support, feeding the heresies with a quad 33/405 (40$) combo as the hypex are build into the kefs cabinet.
Amps, cables, cd drives are not any of my concern, the speaker and how it is driven counts. I built active sub/satellite systems myself in various config, usually d'Appolito design, but got of the full active bandwagon after listening to and measuring the kefs response in my room, after which I just used the subwoofer to supply the bass energy.
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post #35 of 39 Old 11-02-2012, 08:23 AM
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Kraut, I'm happy that you have found your pathway en route to audio nirvana. One thing we all have in common is that we love sound. I have to say one of the things that annoys the hell out of me about this hobby is the encampment that forms around brands and the loyalty of people have for them. I went into the Bryston circle at Audiocircle to ask if the Bryston B60R WOULD have any different sonic characteristics to my Behringer. Not surprisingly I did not get many answers. So I have had it for a few weeks now and up until now I do not hear any difference. At the same time I bought an exposure amplifier. As you can see I'm curious about amplification. Anyhow, the exposure amplifier does sound different in my ears. I do not contend that the difference is better. Perhaps it is faulty, of inferior design, has a high signal-to-noise ratio, is influencing me through some sort of British magic; whatever it is and honestly I don't care what it is, it sounds different. Anyway, my intention here is to share my experience. These forums are more fun if people are not afraid of sharing their thoughts. I would suggest adding to threads in a way that does not intentionally cut down and mock other people. I don't know if there are other areas in life where this approach to communication is useful.
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post #36 of 39 Old 11-02-2012, 08:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

to ask if the Bryston B60R WOULD have any different sonic characteristics to my Behringer. Not surprisingly I did not get many answers. So I have had it for a few weeks now and up until now I do not hear any difference. At the same time I bought an exposure amplifier. As you can see I'm curious about amplification. Anyhow, the exposure amplifier does sound different in my ears. I do not contend that the difference is better. Perhaps it is faulty, of inferior design, has a high signal-to-noise ratio, is influencing me through some sort of British magic; whatever it is and honestly I don't care what it is, it sounds different. Anyway, my intention here is to share my experience. These forums are more fun if people are not afraid of sharing their thoughts. I would suggest adding to threads in a way that does not intentionally cut down and mock other people. I don't know if there are other areas in life where this approach to communication is useful.
You react like a newbie who's just learning about this forum. But you've been a member here since 2006 and made over 400 posts. I find it odd.

Did you know that "S" of AVS stands for science?
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I went into the Bryston circle at Audiocircle
That's the culprit.
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post #37 of 39 Old 11-02-2012, 09:25 AM
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Yeah, I guess you are right about my mood. But still, this 2-channel subforum is like a ghost town. Maybe the "s" is for sarcasm?
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post #38 of 39 Old 11-02-2012, 09:52 AM
 
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But still, this 2-channel subforum is like a ghost town.
That means 2-channel audio is a matured replay technology. Plus, no news is good news.
Take a look at other forums that are not ghost town, they are either bunch of audiophool fantasy sharing or just repeat of same old tech talk. If that's what you desire, the solution is rather simple.
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post #39 of 39 Old 11-02-2012, 10:14 AM
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i GOT IT. Doesn't sound like fun. Maybe when I grow up.
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