The 'NEW' YAQIN MS-20L Integrated Vacuum Tube Amp Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 838 Old 05-08-2011, 07:31 AM
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[quote=whitenoise;20408093]I will echo Rob's opinion about the HRT Music Streamer II! For any one looking for a USB only DAC strictly for Computer music listening, the HRT is hard to beat at any price point. There are high end DACs that people favor more and in fact they do have their benefits such as quieter background, separation, detail and smoother signature, however keep in mind that these are extremely tiny improvements in S.Q. And depending on the quality of your gear, perhaps not noticeable at all! Not to mention you will be paying in most cases 10X the cost to obtain! If anyone is curious for comparison reasons read the "Great DAC shootout" on AudioCircle as the Music Streamer II was a surprise performer to say the least in the company of many high end DACs and according to the opinion of some the HRT was the 3rd best sounding DAC and the winner was the Tranquility DAC at a cost of over $1000.00 For those that think Asynchronous or high resolution 24bit 192kHz DACs have better sound quality? Guess again, because the Tranquility is a regular old 16bit 44kHz NOS DAC! I think the S.Q. Has more to do with the
Analog section of these DACs then anything else because nothing else explains
the improvement in sound quality save for the lower Jitter of the NOS design.
This is what Steve from Empirical audio explained to me a long time ago. He
was actually trying to save me money. He designs the PaceCar and OffRamp
components which are supposed to help tremendously with Clock management
which minimizes Jitter. The V-lab is also a NOS or Non Over Sampling DAC
and many people swear by the analog sound it outputs.


I have heard that some people like the M.S.II but still hear some digital
artifacts compared to higher end units that have a smoother signature, I
disagree and think that the Music Streamer II is very analog sounding and I
was using it strictly with Solid State gear until I got my Grant Fidelity B-283
buffer. In any case if any of you are using tube amplification with the Music
Streamer it would be a great match if in fact there are digital overtones to
your ears. If any of you want a DAC for anything other then USB computer
audio you will have to look at a DAC with Optical or S/PDIF connections as
most CD players, Transports, Amps and AVRs do not have USB inputs. The
USB to S/PDIF converters will work with some USB only DACs and the good
ones convert up to 24bit 192kHz resolution. I think that's adding more to the
chain and common sense dictates a quality DAC with all the features you need
in one unit!


I want to make it clear that as with all audio components, it is highly subjective and although I recommend the HRT as and excellent performing DAC at a unbelievably low cost. There are many brands and types available
And trying them out and hearing with your own ears, is sound advice.
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post #272 of 838 Old 05-08-2011, 08:04 AM
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Thoughts on Grant Fidelity B-283 Tube Buffer!
I recently picked this up and added it to my chain and I do hear the character tube sound. At first I was hesitant to get a buffer, "after all" how much tube flavor can be heard from a unit that takes away or adds nothing power wise? This unit comes stock with two 6J1 tubes, which are supposed to be neutral in sound? There really isn't much sound info with these and for a while I was undecided as Pacific Valve was adamant that the their single tube unit the CD-1 was a better sounding unit? I do hear a more pronounced analog sound in the low, mid and high frequencies, but feel that it takes away detail in the Low and mid range somewhat and rolls the high end off earlier. It does have it's benefits for shrill recordings and the main reason I wanted the buffer was to tame the brightness of my CD player on standard resolution music. When listening to SACD I prefer the player stock as the buffer takes away too much detail.


Can anyone recommend tubes with maximum detail while still retaining the character tube sound. I don't care much about rolling off the high end a little as many recordings have shrill overtones that the buffer tame in this area, just don't want the lows and mids to be as veiled as they are if possible!


Forgive me for not being well learned in tubes as I'm a total newb in this area. The buffer is also a precursor for tube amplification and a way for me to test the waters so to speak! Not even sure the buffer is a good barometer instead of the real deal? Thanks
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post #273 of 838 Old 05-08-2011, 08:07 AM
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I've been using a Bowers & Wilkins MM-1 desktop speakers for about six months. It has a built in DAC.

Picked up the HRT Streamer II. It has more bass thump. However, the B&W MM-1's built in DAC is much better. Significantly more detail, airier, and clearer - but without fatigue. So I'm not sure if I'm not using the HRT Streamer II incorrectly but I returned it after purchasing a better cable for it and not getting any better results. I'm surprised as I don't expect a built in DAC for a $500 speaker to be much good compared to a stand alone DAC.

Just one quick data point.

UL
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post #274 of 838 Old 05-09-2011, 06:50 AM
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Hello Ultralight! That is strange because mine has plenty of detail along with all the other good qualities a well engineered component should have. A quality 2.0 USB cable such as the Belkin Gold helps much as well as quality analog cables. Did you listen to the Music Streamer for any reasonable length of time? I liked the sound of mine right off the bat but it sounded much better after a few weeks of listening. Im not going to say burn in or if it's just a Psychoacoustic trait because I really don't know. However to my ears it opened up more with wider soundstage, better imaging and the sharpness smoothed out. Still not as much as I like and one of the reasons I got a buffer along with taming the brightness of my CD player. However the shrill sounds I hear are of the recordings themselves and not the shortcomings of the DAC itself. On excellent recordings the Music Streamer II just sounds absolutely stunning to my ears!
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post #275 of 838 Old 05-09-2011, 09:14 AM
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Also forgot to ask if you bypassed the internal DAC of the B&W speakers?
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post #276 of 838 Old 05-09-2011, 11:11 AM
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Thanks for asking whitenoise.

Yes on all accounts: Bypassed internal B&W DAC as only one USB DAC actually operates at a time, ordered a 6 feet long Belkin Gold USB, and burned in the HRT Music Streamer II for probably 50 hours or more. Didn't hear any difference from burning in.

The HRT does have good detail - its just that the B&W has more clarity and naturalness to it.

UL
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post #277 of 838 Old 05-11-2011, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i'm "selectively deaf", at least according to my wife...

btw, if anyone wants one of these and they are located near southern new jersey, drop me a pm...

Sent PM.
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post #278 of 838 Old 05-11-2011, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultralight1 View Post

Thanks for asking whitenoise.

Yes on all accounts: Bypassed internal B&W DAC as only one USB DAC actually operates at a time, ordered a 6 feet long Belkin Gold USB, and burned in the HRT Music Streamer II for probably 50 hours or more. Didn't hear any difference from burning in.

The HRT does have good detail - its just that the B&W has more clarity and naturalness to it.

UL

Yes, that's why I asked as it could have caused some type of conflict, but sounds like your system sounds better the way it was designed. Nothing wrong with what you were doing and if you like the sound quality that much better with the B&Ws, then you should stick with it, and if it makes you happy, then great! I don't know if you tried the HRT with other speakers, passive per say, but it might give you a different perspective!
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post #279 of 838 Old 05-12-2011, 06:08 AM
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Thanks. Yes, I also tried the HRT Streamer II with a set of Yamaha monitors with a matched Yamaha sub. Similar results. I'm trying to move away from the MM-1 for a much better desktop system.

I did also split the Streamer II signal so that I can use the MM-1 along with the subwoofer for more foundation. It does sound better - but the loss of detail from using the native MM-1 DAC took away some of the advantages of having a sub.

UL
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post #280 of 838 Old 07-08-2011, 09:31 PM
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Its been 2 months since I bought the Yaqin MS-20L.Still enjoying the rich sound.Should have over 100 hrs on the stock tubes.Like to try to see if i can improve the sound over stock tubes.Any suggestions?
graham
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post #281 of 838 Old 07-09-2011, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwestwoodnurse View Post

Its been 2 months since I bought the Yaqin MS-20L.Still enjoying the rich sound.Should have over 100 hrs on the stock tubes.Like to try to see if i can improve the sound over stock tubes.Any suggestions?
graham

Hey,

Great to hear you are enjoying the amp same here and I assume that everyone else is as the thread has been quiet for sometime.

I just upgraded to the Tung-Sol El34Bs and love the sound. There are several other choices, and of course, more money. Suppose one has to keep in mind their budget.

On my stock tubes, had an issue in that V4 had a loose particle in it, which at checking the bias began to show red them smoke and blew a resister. But took it to a garage shop and had repaired in no time and now everything is up and running with no problems with the Tung-Sols.

Happy hunting and of course listening. Oh I also added the Music Streamer II and I am truly impressed. (I might have mentioned that). The sound is amazing. And on the way is a new Asus Desktop i5. Also added a Direct Servo 12" in the theater and that is another listening story!!!! (:

But at the moment-today I am going to hear many new tube amps and speakers at the Capital Audio Fest, Rockville, Md., especially to visit with Dennis Murphy and his new Philharmonic Speakers I, II and II and of course, Salk Signature Sound and their marvelous sound reproduction.

Rob
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post #282 of 838 Old 07-10-2011, 09:12 AM
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I have been using my MS-20L for about a month, about 40 hours. It sounded good with the stock tubes. At 35 hours I replaced the 6J1 tubes with russian 6J1P-EV tubes and got a nice improvement (my wife even noticed the difference). I plan to replace the EL34B tubes after 100 hours, probably Gold Lion KT77 but not sure yet.

I am using Klipsch KG4 (1985) speakers, Denon DCM-290 Cd changer (2006) and a Technics SA-390 receiver (1986, just using the tuner).

For the money this is a fantastic amp, no question about it.

you have to be trusted by the people that you lie to....
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post #283 of 838 Old 07-10-2011, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cytowing View Post

I have been using my MS-20L for about a month, about 40 hours. It sounded good with the stock tubes. At 35 hours I replaced the 6J1 tubes with russian 6J1P-EV tubes and got a nice improvement (my wife even noticed the difference). I plan to replace the EL34B tubes after 100 hours, probably Gold Lion KT77 but not sure yet.

I am using Klipsch KG4 (1985) speakers, Denon DCM-290 Cd changer (2006) and a Technics SA-390 receiver (1986, just using the tuner).

For the money this is a fantastic amp, no question about it.

Hey,

Glad you are enjoying the 20L and I agree with you, the stocks tubes would have been fine if there were no upgrades. I also heard that the Gold Lions were really nice.

Very nice amp for the money!

Rob
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post #284 of 838 Old 07-26-2011, 08:38 PM
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I've had this amplifier for a few months and I had the opportunity to try rolling a few tubes.

I found the GE 5654w tubes a little bright at times and a bit grainy, but it had decent mids. They seemed a bit microphonic and wrapping them in the teflon tape as others suggested helped.

The Mullard 8100 tubes seemed somewhat dark and warm, but lacked the highs and mids of the GE tubes.

I tried the Russian 6s3p-e output tubes and they had great mids and highs, but not a lot of bass and were best matched with the warmer Mullard 8100 tubes. These tubes are inexpensive and interesting, but not a favorite due to the missing bass and they can be overly bright when paired with the GE 5654w tubes.

Currently I have found the JJ Kt77 tubes to be a good value and have great bass and smooth mids and highs. I found out you can use 4 of the same smaller tubes in row one and four of a different type of tube in row two. This gives you further sound customization but also cuts down on your tube purchasing expenses as 8 tubes are more costly and difficult to find than 4.

I liked the mullards in the front and the GE's in the second row combined with the JJs for the power tubes the best so far. The midrange could be a touch better imo but they sound very good. I would be interested in hearing a comparison between the GL kt77 and the JJ kt77. I would be surprised if the GL were 3 times better but it would be amazing if they were.

I also did not find massive changes in sound after burning in tubes for a huge amount of hours. Different tubes clearly had different properties that were apparent immediately and after a few hours they seemed to mellow out a bit but I didn't experience massive changes. I would attribute much to just your mind adjusting to the sound and psycho-acoustics.

I did not find the triode mode to sound better under any circumstance. Also, the large digital display showing what source you are listening to is unnecessary and over shadows the glow of the tubes.


This amp is easy to listen to and the sound has a very black background. The sound is clean and solid and there is good separation between the different instruments and vocals. The amp sounds good after listening to it for a while, but then pretty much everything sounds good until you do an A-B comparison and you realize what sounds better.

With an A-B comparison with my Sansui G-5500 solid state amp, I find the sound stage much smaller and some detail is missing. In some cases, quite a bit of detail was missing.

I'm not sure if the downsides are common to tube amps in general since I don't have much experience with them or if it is a trait of this particular one or lower end models.

I did have an old unmodified Sherwood S-5000 tube amp that some guys in the business said would blow away the 'Chinese junk' and the Yaqin was clearly better imo in all respects.

The Yaqin tube buffer may be a less expensive way to give a bit of tube flavor while retaining many of the benefits of the solid state amplifier.

Ultimately, I wouldn't get rid of your SS amplifier, but there is definitely a more emotional appeal to the tube equipment.
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post #285 of 838 Old 07-27-2011, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Veniceit!

That is a great review and some good information on tube rolling. I did find that the GE 5654w tubes were a great improvement over the stock ones and were very reasonable cost to start with. I have not had to itch to upgrade them. I guess the SQ had greatly improved so much that I am reallly satisfied with the sound using the HRT Music Streamer II so much that I am considering upgrading to the II+.

The Russian 6s3p-e's were not recommended by Song, in fact he said do not use them. I am surprised they were working for you.

A little pricey, but I found the Tung-Sols are very nice tubes, but like I said I am happy with the complete combo that I have now. I do, however, love tube rolling.

Glad you are enjoying the amp, give it plenty of time to break in and of course "your ears to adjust to being a tubey".

As newbys in this field more adjustment needed, at least to me, was my own ears! Having decent speakers helped as well. But honestly I knew there was something I didn't like about SS, maybe it was my Onkyo, or my Harmon Kardon, don't know. But I know when I fired up this tube amp I was in love as this is the sound I was searching for. Who knows maybe someday I will be able to hear a high quality SS amp to compare with.

Happy listening,

Rob
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post #286 of 838 Old 10-16-2011, 10:44 AM
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all i can say is 1944 western electric/tung sol 6ak5. destroy the ge's got them on ebay, 8 for $43 shipped. i see a guy in ca. has 5 for $100+
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post #287 of 838 Old 10-22-2011, 08:03 AM
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Hey guys
I am looking for a solid tube amp to pair with my B+W 805's.
I have been looking at the Yaqins on Ebay so that I can also invest in a good quality CD player. What made you all go wth the MS-20L over the MC-10L but not the MC-100B or the MS-100C? Which one is going to sound the best?
This guy from Ebay is recommending the MC-100B but man its the least attractive amp of the bunch. The guy replying from Ebay is Tabnaac. Is that Song?
Great thread BTW, read though all of it last night.
Thanks!
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post #288 of 838 Old 10-23-2011, 04:51 PM
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^^^

this probably doesn't help much, but i bought my ms20l because i thought it was the best looking one of the bunch...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 


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post #289 of 838 Old 10-26-2011, 06:20 AM
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Chris, wasn't there something about uglier ones putting out better?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #290 of 838 Old 10-26-2011, 07:32 AM
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^^^

lol...

no pic???

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 


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post #291 of 838 Old 10-26-2011, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Chris, wasn't there something about uglier ones putting out better?

Haha well played! That comment made my day!

So I have decided to go with the 20L. Its my first tube amp so I figure I can get this one now, based on all the glowing reviews here and then upgrade to higher end one eventually. I am in Ontario only a 2 hour drive from Toronto so I am going to pick up the amp Friday at noon! Pretty excited to say the least.
Any advice is welcome. I am going to swap out the tubes for better ones so if anyone wants to guide me in that process it would be much apreciated!
I am really just getting into tubes now so at this point I am learning as I go!
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post #292 of 838 Old 11-02-2011, 10:32 AM
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I have only briefly scanned this post so forgive it me if I am asking something that has already been answered. So everyone that has purchased this amp is a satisfied customer? What's the build quality like other than being heavy? The amp looks like the Grant Fidelity stuff, is this from the same factory?

I have wanted to get into tubes for a long time. I briefly had a Jolida FX-10 and loved the sound. At the time I had some super efficient speakers so the Jolida was perfect but now I have a pair of 2-way monitors, so the Jolida had to go. I was looking at Primaluna Prologue II, and the Jolida 505. However as a new tube guy, I would love to spend less.

Should I pull the trigger? I'm using an Onkyo 2 channel receiver right now and while it sounds fine, I am dying to upgrade.
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post #293 of 838 Old 11-02-2011, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey TKYR1967, you can't go wrong with the 20L, it is a good reliable amp. Very attractive and built like a tank.

In tube rolling, I have tried the cyroed tung sols and found them to be great with the 20L. I think the gold lion El34s may beat them.

I had an onkyo 2 channel, probably just like yours, and, well the 20L, really puts it to shame..... really puts it to shame!!!

A very good entry level tube amp.

Rob
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post #294 of 838 Old 11-02-2011, 11:57 AM
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Is there any contact for this guy, Song or a website for Canadian HiFI?
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post #295 of 838 Old 11-02-2011, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKYR1967 View Post

Is there any contact for this guy, Song or a website for Canadian HiFI?

Hey, this is Song, in Canada.......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAQIN-MS-20L...item1e67fb8dca
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post #296 of 838 Old 11-09-2011, 09:48 AM
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So I have had the amp a week or two now and I really like it. Sounds great, looks great and an amazing value.
Time to upgrade the tubes. I ordered 8 of these:
http://thetubestore.com/nos-5654.html
These are the ones you guys are swapping in for the stock tubes?
When they arrive do I just take out the stock ones and pop in the new ones?
Does it matter which slot each one goes into? I am new to tubes!
Also want to change the EL34's. I am going to order the Gold Lion KT77's. Anyone want to chime in on if its a worthy upgrade?
Thanks!
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post #297 of 838 Old 11-13-2011, 10:11 AM
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This has me intrigued because the price on this amp seems very good. I had a chance to hear some mono block Cary tubes and the sound was unbeliavable. However, those were around $6k...

How would this budget version compare to the more high end stuff?

I am seriously considering this for my PC 2.1 setup. Any issues with leaving the amp on for long periods of time due to the fact that it will be hooked up in a PC setup?

Thanks!


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post #298 of 838 Old 11-14-2011, 06:49 AM
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as long as you are present. the manufacturer says turn it off if you are not playing any music for 30 min. or more.
if you are going to play it in a computer system with you there (unless you connect it to a tv) i would go but you lose headphone option.for the less expensive 10l without remote but you lose headphone option.
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post #299 of 838 Old 11-14-2011, 07:12 AM
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where can i get the russian 6p3s-e power tubes?
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post #300 of 838 Old 11-15-2011, 06:44 AM
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Hey guys just got a ms20l paired with focal 714v. I hear a slight hiss if i am close up to the speakers with no source and tube amp powered on. Volume is at 0 is this normal?

enjoying my ms20l

Edit: Song clarified the issue for me! Happy Listening.
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