The 'NEW' YAQIN MS-20L Integrated Vacuum Tube Amp Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:18 AM
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Update on the GE 5654W tubes

About one month ago I noticed a high pitched ringing sort of sound coming from the speakers (tweeters) during quiet musical passages and between tracks of songs. I gently tapped on the tubes (the 4 closest to the front) and the ringing became worse. I switched around the GE tubes and the noise was still there. Seems like the tubes are microphonic. The noise bothered me so I swapped the original Chinese tubes back in and now there is a marked decrease in the high pitched sound (barely audible with my ear right up to the tweeters) and the amp still sounds great!

I will leave the stock tubes in there for now. I may try a different brand of tube such as the Psvane at some point, but for now I'm happy.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Man, I am sorry about the GE 5456Ws tubes since I recommended them to you. Did you get them from the guy I suggested? I think he was redfern something. Mine are still working just fine, must have got some bad ones. If you like I can send the stock ones to you if that will help.

Hope things work out.

And update from myself......

Since my last post I wanted to give an update as to how the HRT music streamer II to the PC system/20L and some new RCA wires has affected the sound. I must say it is an enormous improvement.

If anyone is operating from a PC this is a worthwhile investment. The MSII from HRT is amazing to say the least. More separation, air, soundstage and clarity. I had been accustomed to listening sometime ago to some songs that my son sent me and had not listened to them in a long while. Most were recorded in the 90's. So listening to them might let me know the improvement and they definitely did. I hardly recognized most of them as they sounded totally different.

Very happy with these purchases.

Rob
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:53 PM
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No biggie Rob. I'm just glad that I still have half of my hearing ability left to even notice the noise. Yes I bought them from Redfern.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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You know he may send you a freebee, since he is such a nice guy to deal with. I was really impressed with him.

Anyway, good luck with your 20L.l

Playing around with the JRiver Jukebox media player that is totally free now and it is a fun player, especially with tubes.

Have a good day,

R
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Old 03-30-2011, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProampFan View Post

Update on the GE 5654W tubes

About one month ago I noticed a high pitched ringing sort of sound coming from the speakers (tweeters) during quiet musical passages and between tracks of songs. I gently tapped on the tubes (the 4 closest to the front) and the ringing became worse. I switched around the GE tubes and the noise was still there. Seems like the tubes are microphonic. The noise bothered me so I swapped the original Chinese tubes back in and now there is a marked decrease in the high pitched sound (barely audible with my ear right up to the tweeters) and the amp still sounds great!

I will leave the stock tubes in there for now. I may try a different brand of tube such as the Psvane at some point, but for now I'm happy.


This is the same problem I've had.I have done some reseach on the net and found that the GE 5654W are known for this.I also put the stock tubes back
in,but found them to be to flat and hollow sounding.After reading some tweak ideas and doing a similar thing myself,I wrapped my tubes with teflon tape (plummer's tape) this made a world of difference and not only did it stop the ring it also seem to help the low end out and opened up the sound stage a little more. Just take the tape and wrap it around each tube about 8 or 9 times.
Teflon tape is non-adhesive,so no harm will be done and it's also very cheap about $4 for 6 rolls at Home Depot.Telfon tape is also very good at keeping out RF noise.

P.S. just wrap the glass not the pins

I had the windows opened today brought in a little dust.....

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Old 03-30-2011, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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How's it going Buddy? Sorry, I have to admit not had ringing from the 5654ws. But, when I had popping sounds I put the stock tubes back in and I agree with you flat and lifeless. The problem was Comcast/wire management.

And, obviously the tubes do not get hot enough to melt or discolor the tape right?

Thanks,

Rob
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsart View Post
How's it going Buddy? Sorry, I have to admit not had ringing from the 5654ws. But, when I had popping sounds I put the stock tubes back in and I agree with you flat and lifeless. The problem was Comcast/wire management.

And, obviously the tubes do not get hot enough to melt or discolor the tape right?

Thanks,

Rob

Hey,hey

No problems with heat..

Quote:
Will not support combustion. Temperature range of -450F to +550F. Exceeds Mil. Spec. T-27730A UL Listed

Don't get me started on Comcast
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubedoctor1971 View Post
Hey,hey

No problems with heat..




Don't get me started on Comcast
Ha Ha Comcast.....who knows, for the most part they are fine, but....but...when they are not.....they are definitely not.

Have to try the tape....will get back with you guys on the results.
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:45 PM
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I'll give the tape a try.
Thanks
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProampFan View Post

I'll give the tape a try.
Thanks

Anxious to hear how that helps.

R
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:31 PM
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hi everyone, new here,

i also stumbled on yaqin amplifers being sold from Hong Kong on ebay. I'm assuming this is a generic branded amplifier that is just built by some electrical engineers in asia?

Also, how often do tubes need to be replaced?

thank you
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey, and welcome to the thread!!

Tubes can last years and the stock ones used in the 20L can be replace inexpensively.

There are many upgrade possibilities as well, so you can have fun with that too.

Most of us got their amp from Canadian HiFI on Ebay and Song will treat you right.

Let us know if we can help with further questions.

Rob
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:30 PM
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thanks so much for that fast response!

my original AMP idea was

Sonos or Computer -> PeachTree Nova -> speakers

but when I stumbled on the amp from ebay, not only did it look gorgeous, it has a lot more tubes and i can't imagine the peachtree in terms of its tube amplication portion being any better.

However, the peachtree has a DAC, so given that I will probably use a sonos or a computer, does that mean I have to do something like

*btw i don't want to use the DAC on the sonos, most audiophiles don't recommend that apparently

Sonos / Computer -> DAC -> Yaqin -> speaker

?
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinchharmonic View Post

thanks so much for that fast response!

my original AMP idea was

Sonos or Computer -> PeachTree Nova -> speakers

but when I stumbled on the amp from ebay, not only did it look gorgeous, it has a lot more tubes and i can't imagine the peachtree in terms of its tube amplication portion being any better.

However, the peachtree has a DAC, so given that I will probably use a sonos or a computer, does that mean I have to do something like

*btw i don't want to use the DAC on the sonos, most audiophiles don't recommend that apparently

Sonos / Computer -> DAC -> Yaqin -> speaker

?

Some of the other guys will chime in, I hope. I can give you my simple set-up of which I enjoy immensely.

HD PC = HRT MSII DAC = Yaqin MS-20L (with 8-GE5654Ws) = DIY Dennis Murphy CAOW1 black bookshelf speakers/Sennheiser 280 Pro Cans.

Music Source....... Pandora One, Grooveshark.com, onboard MP3s, HD, FLAC, etc. The 20L is an integrated amp.

With the Music Streamer II, Grooveshark sounds as good as the HD content onboard. The MSII is just now getting to the point of burn in.

Player is the free JRiver Jukebox 14 (favorite), and Itunes Player.

Simple, but very effective in producing an amazing 2 channel sound.

Hope this helps some. Sorry that I can't help you with the Sonos.
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsart View Post

Some of the other guys will chime in, I hope. I can give you my simple set-up of which I enjoy immensely.

HD PC = HRT MSII DAC = Yaqin MS-20L (with 8-GE5654Ws) = DIY Dennis Murphy CAOW1 black bookshelf speakers/Sennheiser 280 Pro Cans.

Music Source....... Pandora One, Grooveshark.com, onboard MP3s, HD, FLAC, etc. The 20L is an integrated amp.

With the Music Streamer II, Grooveshark sounds as good as the HD content onboard. The MSII is just now getting to the point of burn in.

Player is the free JRiver Jukebox 14 (favorite), and Itunes Player.

Simple, but very effective in producing an amazing 2 channel sound.

Hope this helps some. Sorry that I can't help you with the Sonos.

Hi woodstart,

"Music Source....... Pandora One, Grooveshark.com, onboard MP3s, HD, FLAC, etc. The 20L is an integrated amp."

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean by 20L is an integrated amp in terms of the music sources you listed, i assumed all those sources were digital and had to go through the DAC you mentioned, then onto the amp.

"HRT MSII DAC" approximately how much is this DAC? getting an idea for how much DACs are.

Is there something special about HD PC? What does that mean really?

Also, if I am going to just do digital out of my PC and use winamp for example, do I need a really spiffy sound card? I figure if my downstream hardware is good I should not right?


thanks again =)
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=pinchharmonic;20323425]Hi woodstart,

Quote:


"Music Source....... Pandora One, Grooveshark.com, onboard MP3s, HD, FLAC, etc. The 20L is an integrated amp."

I assumed integrated means this as I am not an audiophile in the sense of knowing all the details of a component. But the 20L being integrated also has it's own volume control.

Wiki definition.....

An integrated amplifier (pre/main amp) is an electronic device containing an audio preamplifier and power amplifier in one unit, as opposed to separating the two. Most modern audio amplifiers are integrated and have several inputs for devices such as CD players, DVD players, and auxiliary sources. Integrated amplifiers commonly had dedicated inputs for turntables, AM/FM tuner, and tape recorders (cassette or reel-to-reel) back when those devices were more common. Except for the turntable, all of the inputs are line level, thus they are interchangeable.

Quote:


Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean by 20L is an integrated amp in terms of the music sources you listed, i assumed all those sources were digital and had to go through the DAC you mentioned, then onto the amp.

Correct the MSII is the DAC conversion to 24/96. The sound is amazing when converted by the MSII and amplified with the 20L. Of course everything is played from the PC. I do not have a DVD player except the Samsung onboard one. So they are all music files or internet streaming from the PC.

Other guys would probably explain this a lot better than I can.



Quote:


"HRT MSII DAC" approximately how much is this DAC? getting an idea for how much DACs are.

The HRT Music Streamers start at 149.00.....http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...ic+streamer+ii
Quote:


Is there something special about HD PC? What does that mean really?

My son built my PC and I ask for it to be able handle HD Videos, etc. So all the components were as such.

Quote:


Also, if I am going to just do digital out of my PC and use winamp for example, do I need a really spiffy sound card? I figure if my downstream hardware is good I should not right?

The PC sends the music, right? The card I had originally used (still there), was the Audyssey 5.1 xtreme. It performed well, but the MSII takes control and all the music goes through that rather than the Creative Audyssey. Converting all music files to 24/96. Can your PC handle FLAC or ma4 files? Winamp can do conversion from Mp3 to FLAC, etc. I use it occasionally.


I hope this helps, like I said I am not a guru in this area, only do things from suggestion or what I have researched. I have a friend who is knowledgeable of components like the Sonos. I will contact him, see if he can read and post some suggestions.
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Old 04-24-2011, 09:05 AM
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I don't typically give input in forums such as these. I joined this thread just to put my two cents in for what I see as a HUGE upgrade. It was that important for me to provide this feedback. I have tried two seperate batches of JAN 5654W preamp/driver tube sets. One set dated 1985 and one set 1983. I ran these both about 100 hours each. I found the GE tubes to be very microphonic. Wrapping them in Teflon pipe tape did help some and I was ok doing this until my brother recommended trying Mullard EF95's mostly because he assured me the microphonics would be eliminated. These Tubes are fairly rare but I found a supplier from UK on Ebay and bought 4 matched pairs with the preamp stages and driver pairs matched left and right perfectly.

The long and short of it is the difference from the GE tubes to Mullard's is AMAZING. The cost of the 8 mullards w/shipping is about $115 US. But if you can afford it, and have a supplier that can match them, you NEED to upgrade IMO. The second set of GE tubes fully broke in (about 95+ hours) were not even in the same ball park of performance as the mullards with only 10 hours into the burn-in. My mullards have about 20 hours in them and the dynamic range, fullness of the sound and 3D feel of the soundstage is amazing. The GE tubes were very bright and sometimes harse in mids and highs. BTW - I'm running Genalex KT77's as finals (fully burned-in when i swapped the EF95's). Another amazing upgrade to the stock tubes.
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:11 PM
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I just ordered a YAQIN MS-20L in part due to research from this site.I hope you all aren't tone deaf..Looking forward to trying out tubes.This will be my 3rd system.Right now for 2 channel I'm running Bryston 3nrb with a .5 preamp and a cambridge dac playing flac .I also have a Marantz and axiom home theater set up.This will be more stuff for the wife to complain about.Plan on using some Swan Divas 5.1 with the Yaqin and a BO turntable .
Cheers Graham
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwestwoodnurse View Post
I just ordered a YAQIN MS-20L in part due to research from this site.I hope you all aren't tone deaf..Looking forward to trying out tubes.This will be my 3rd system.Right now for 2 channel I'm running Bryston 3nrb with a .5 preamp and a cambridge dac playing flac .I also have a Marantz and axiom home theater set up.This will be more stuff for the wife to complain about.Plan on using some Swan Divas 5.1 with the Yaqin and a BO turntable .
Cheers Graham
Hey Graham,

Congratulations on your purchase of the 20L and no we are not to tone deaf.....I don't think I am....don't know about the rest of the guys here they will have to speak for themselves.

Please keep us posted when you get it in.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:03 PM
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Hello,

After reading this forum about 10 times a week,I went ahead and ordered the ms-20l
and the ms-12b.I've had them for two days now and (!!!!wow!!!!). The reviews from tubedoctor1971 and woodsart were so great that I knew I had to get them.
I replaced the stock 6j1 tubes with Western Electric 403b's from the 40's and the el34's
with the KT77's like tubedoctor1971 did and this took it to another level all together.
I had a Jolida JD 302B that I just sold to my brother two weeks ago,the yaqin makes the
Jolida sound like a toy.The Jolida is what I originally had the KT77's so they were nice and burned in.The Jolida produced more of a soild wall of sound alot less of a true to life sound,were as the Yaqin producess a deep natural sound stage.Vocals are just out of this world.I found myself doing to the Jolida what I always had to do with soild state amps and that's eq'ing.I just set the eq flat with the Yaqin and it's all there the way it should be.The same holds true for the ms-12b it's just as great.Thanks you woodsart and tubedoctor1971!!!!!
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsart View Post

Hey Graham,

Congratulations on your purchase of the 20L and no we are not to tone deaf.....I don't think I am....don't know about the rest of the guys here they will have to speak for themselves.

Please keep us posted when you get it in.

i'm "selectively deaf", at least according to my wife...

btw, if anyone wants one of these and they are located near southern new jersey, drop me a pm...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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Old 05-03-2011, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassvalve2a3 View Post

Hello,

After reading this forum about 10 times a week,I went ahead and ordered the ms-20l
and the ms-12b.I've had them for two days now and (!!!!wow!!!!). The reviews from tubedoctor1971 and woodsart were so great that I knew I had to get them.
I replaced the stock 6j1 tubes with Western Electric 403b's from the 40's and the el34's
with the KT77's like tubedoctor1971 did and this took it to another level all together.
I had a Jolida JD 302B that I just sold to my brother two weeks ago,the yaqin makes the
Jolida sound like a toy.The Jolida is what I originally had the KT77's so they were nice and burned in.The Jolida produced more of a soild wall of sound alot less of a true to life sound,were as the Yaqin producess a deep natural sound stage.Vocals are just out of this world.I found myself doing to the Jolida what I always had to do with soild state amps and that's eq'ing.I just set the eq flat with the Yaqin and it's all there the way it should be.The same holds true for the ms-12b it's just as great.Thanks you woodsart and tubedoctor1971!!!!!

Glassvalve2a3a.....

congratulations! You are welcome!!! Just can't beat this amp for opening our first door into tubes!!! Or in your case a quality Tube Amp at an affordable price.

Glad you are enjoying the 20L. Did you get it from Song at Canadian HiFi? I am also considering the KT77ss as well. I would eventually like to switch to the 6ca7-z's someday just for fun!

And I agree with you the 20L produces a warm, natural flat sound with vocals that are just amazing. And.... of course, since I added a MSII to the mix the quality of sound is extremely satisfying to me!!! As I said earlier, streaming/onboard MP3/HD all sounds great most Hi-rez sounding!

I can't complain at all about the 20L.

Happy listening!!!

Rob
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Old 05-03-2011, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i'm "selectively deaf", at least according to my wife...

btw, if anyone wants one of these and they are located near southern new jersey, drop me a pm...

Hey Chris are you going to the at the CAF in July?

I think I just might be selectively deaf too!!! Dunno!!!

Rob
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Old 05-03-2011, 02:20 PM
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^^^

hey rob...

actually, i'm thinking about it... i might drive down there for a day, it's only about 3 hours from the toxic waste dumps...

if so, i'll let you know... we can get together for a "beverage"...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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Old 05-03-2011, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Chris,

Don't know what day I am going as well. We'll keep in touch.

Thanks for the invite!

Rob
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:36 AM
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I received the 20L yesterday.Soon as I took it out of the box I could see how solidly built this amp was.Even the remote is heavy.For sources I used a BO beogram rx with a mm3 cart with a cheaper ebay special phono pre.The cart was replaced by me just as I stopped playing LPs in the late 80ies so it is virtually new. I also hooked up an old Nad 505 thru a cheap Super Dac.The speakers I used are a set of Swan Divas 5.1 floor standers.Needless to say I need to upgrade the cd player and at least the phono pre(maybe a Yaqin)
I started by letting the amp warm up for 30 minutes.I then started with cds.Initially i was impressed.It sounded comparable. to my bryston system as far as quality goes.The sonics seem to improve as the amp continued to warm up.I listened for 3 hours then shut it down till later in the evening.I started to clean albums and spin them after supper.The vinyl sounded good thru this amp even with the cheap pre.Ended up playing tunes till 2 am.All I can saY THAT THIS WAS MONEY WELL SPENT
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwestwoodnurse View Post

I received the 20L yesterday.Soon as I took it out of the box I could see how solidly built this amp was.Even the remote is heavy.For sources I used a BO beogram rx with a mm3 cart with a cheaper ebay special phono pre.The cart was replaced by me just as I stopped playing LPs in the late 80ies so it is virtually new. I also hooked up an old Nad 505 thru a cheap Super Dac.The speakers I used are a set of Swan Divas 5.1 floor standers.Needless to say I need to upgrade the cd player and at least the phono pre(maybe a Yaqin)
I started by letting the amp warm up for 30 minutes.I then started with cds.Initially i was impressed.It sounded comparable. to my bryston system as far as quality goes.The sonics seem to improve as the amp continued to warm up.I listened for 3 hours then shut it down till later in the evening.I started to clean albums and spin them after supper.The vinyl sounded good thru this amp even with the cheap pre.Ended up playing tunes till 2 am.All I can saY THAT THIS WAS MONEY WELL SPENT

Great to hear Gwestwoodnurse!!!!!

As it breaks in, I think about 40 hours you will see....with a little ear adjustment how you will just want more and more!!!

Spin away!!!!

Rob
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:19 AM
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What a great thread!! Read every single post. Appreciate it.

Probably will get one but have a few questions:

1. In UL mode, does the 20L and 10L sound the same? Since there seem to be concensus that the UL mode sounds better than the triode, then don't seem to need the triode mode. Yes, there are other features of the 20L but I'm simply wondering about how it sounds as an integrated amp. I think I found my tube amp...

2. These are manual biasing right? How difficult is it to bias correctly as you guys tube roll? I've never had a tube amp yet.

3. I'd like to run these 2.1 which is a problem as I think there's only one output on the 20L. Any suggestions? I'd like the output to speakers to reproduce above 80hz and the subwoofer to reproduce under 80hz. My source is my laptop through a USB DAC such as the Music Streamer II.

4. Any sense how this compare with something like the the MingDa MC34A06 that Pacific Valve think is the best sub $1k amp? The Mingda cost a fair bit more than the 20L.

Thanks!

UL
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Ultralight1,

Thanks, posters are really appreciated and have offered some good info on the 20Ls and the Yaqin products. For that many have discovered an excellent product for all of us who were looking to experiment with tubes. All the participation in this thread is truly appreciated.

I will try to answer your questions based on my limited knowledge of Tubes.

I have never heard the 10L, however, what I have read the 20L is just the newer version of the 10L. The 10L has a few more watts, but don't think that would matter much. The difference in the two would be the remote and the triode mode, which most do not care for the UL mode sounds better for me and most.

I HIGHLY recommend contacting Song from Canadian HiFi, he will not steer you wrong in your decision.

http://stores.ebay.com/Canadian-HiFi-Online

The 4 EL34s in the back are already biased, however, good to check them in 6 months or so. The tool comes with the amp. The front 8 6J1s are selfbiasing.

With the music streamer, you will be very happy, very happy!!!!

I can't help you with the other amps, however, maybe someone can chime in on those.

What are your speakers?

Again, send all your info to Song and he will direct you, he is very knowledgeable. You may even want to consider the 100.

However, for the money the 20L with some tube rolling for fun and the MSII, good speakers, I personally think you will be satisfied for a very long time before you upgrade.

Hope this helps,

Rob
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:22 AM
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I will echo Rob's opinion about the HRT Music Streamer II! For any one looking for a USB only DAC strictly for Computer music listening, the HRT is hard to beat at any price point. There are high end DACs that people favor more and in fact they do have their benefits such as quieter background, separation, detail and smoother signature, however keep in mind that these are extremely tiny improvements in S.Q. And depending on the quality of your gear, perhaps not noticeable at all! Not to mention you will be paying in most cases 10X the cost to obtain! If anyone is curious for comparison reasons read the "Great DAC shootout" on AudioCircle as the Music Streamer II was a surprise performer to say the least in the company of many high end DACs and according to the opinion of some the HRT was the 3rd best sounding DAC and the winner was the Tranquility DAC at a cost of over $1000.00 For those that think Asynchronous or high resolution 24bit 192kHz DACs have better sound quality? Guess again, because the Tranquility is a regular old 16bit 44kHz NOS DAC! I think the S.Q. Has more to do with the Analog section of these DACs then anything else because nothing else explains the improvement in sound quality save for the lower Jitter of the NOS design. This is what Steve from Empirical audio explained to me a long time ago. He was actually trying to save me money. He designs the PaceCar and OffRamp components which are supposed to help tremendously with Clock management which minimizes Jitter. The V-lab is also a NOS or Non Over Sampling DAC and many people swear by the analog sound it outputs.
I have heard that some people like the M.S.II but still hear some digital artifacts compared to higher end units that have a smoother signature, I disagree and think that the Music Streamer II is very analog sounding and I was using it strictly with Solid State gear until I got my Grant Fidelity B-283 buffer. In any case if any of you are using tube amplification with the Music Streamer it would be a great match if in fact there are digital overtones to your ears. If any of you want a DAC for anything other then USB computer audio you will have to look at a DAC with Optical or S/PDIF connections as most CD players, Transports, Amps and AVRs do not have USB inputs. The USB to S/PDIF converters will work with some USB only DACs and the good ones convert up to 24bit 192kHz resolution. I think that's adding more to the chain and common sense dictates a quality DAC with all the features you need in one unit!
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