RG-59/RG-6 Coaxial for Analog Audio Interconnect? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 61 Old 01-17-2011, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone use a pair of coaxial cable for analog audio usage? If yes, what is the pros and cons pls?

Just finished made a coaxial digital audio cable using the free installation cable from a satellite tv provider.

Tested result = Higher frequencies is more apparent but the low frequency seems like fading and sounds muddy...

Before this I was actually using the yellow analog composite video cable, the bass was clearer and louder but midrange is not as clear as now.

I prefer the new sound from the coaxial cable but the problem is the bass...
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post #2 of 61 Old 01-17-2011, 08:27 PM
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Yes, you can use any coax for analog audio. Characteristic impedance doesn't matter. Some are better than others for the purpose. Look for something with a high percentage braided shield.

As far as the effects you perceived, I suspect it is all in your head.
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post #3 of 61 Old 01-17-2011, 08:43 PM
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Agreed.
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post #4 of 61 Old 01-17-2011, 08:56 PM
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Most RG-6 for cable TV is copper-plated steel core with aluminum braid shield. Copper-plated steel and aluminum aren't as good of conductors as fully cops it enough to make an audible difference? Dunno...

I use RG-6 for a couple of ~35-ft coaxial digital interconnects and it seems to work just fine, although that's a horse of a different color.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #5 of 61 Old 01-17-2011, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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My RG-6 cable is actually solid copper with aluminium braided shield, the bad thing is that this cable is very stiff and not really flexible though...
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post #6 of 61 Old 01-17-2011, 10:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Most RG-6 for cable TV is copper-plated steel core

Quote:
Originally Posted by echoesian View Post

My RG-6 cable is actually solid copper

There are both types and then some.
http://www.belden.com/pdfs/03Belden_...es/06.3_15.pdf (p. 3)

RG-6 is very stiff.
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post #7 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 05:16 AM
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Does your system have XLR balanced connections? If so, that is the fastest and easiest. Just use a quality cable like Canare or Mogami. I am sure BJC carries one or both.
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post #8 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echoesian View Post

Has anyone use a pair of coaxial cable for analog audio usage?

Yes, me.

Extensively, both purchased to order from http://www.bluejeancable.com/store/d...udio/index.htm (Belden 1694A cable), and self made using Canare RCAP RCA plugs and Canare RG-6 wire (Canare L-5CFB) from www.markertek.com but making them yourself requires buying 3 tool components that total something like $90 so you have to make a lot of cables to come out ahead on price. But you can get your cables to within an inch or two of what you need/want.

Between the Canare and Belden cable, I've a slight preference for the Canare; for one thing you have to cut the raw wire open, which I've done; for another I've seen one clearly knowledgable person (on wire) who clearly thought well of wire from Canare. I do not know why bluejeancable states that Belden 1694A is "their favorite" but maybe it's that the price is more stable than a product from Japan or maybe it's that they make slightly more profit with the Belden cable. Trying to ask them about this on the phone (as I've done once) yields nothing. BTW I've never tried comparing SQ of RG-6 Belden vs Canare and suspect that they sound the same.

So start with buying pre-made from bluejeancable as their finished product is well made and surprisingly inexpensive. And length options are much better than the normal 3' 6' 9' etc. options. e.g. you can order to 1' accuracy and still be able to return it if doesn't work for you. Or to 6" accuracy, but you'll not be able to return those.

I mean markertek shows Canare RCAP-C5F RCA list at $4.77 and their price at $4.29; so 4.29 * 4 = $17.16 per stereo pair of cables just for the excellent Canare connectors. bluejeancable shows a price of $17.50 for a 5' pair of Belden 1694A cable. You may have to call them up for their price on a 5' pair of Canare L-5CFB cable.

With regard to the orange rubber "covers" that bluejeancable puts on their finished RG-6 digital cables, these can easily be pulled to the middle of the cable for when you're dealing with 6 cables for tightly spaced 5.1 analog back panel arrangement. The Canare RCAP make it easy to put on, and especially to remove, the cables with tightly spaced 5.1 due to their tube shape and the excellent knurling of the metal at the end of the connector.

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Originally Posted by echoesian View Post

If yes, what is the pros and cons pls?

Better overall SQ (Sound Quality); tends to be subtle stuff; but most noticeable with transient high frequency sound that tails off into silence (e.g. cymbals).

Quote:
Originally Posted by echoesian View Post

Just finished made a coaxial digital audio cable using the free installation cable from a satellite tv provider.

Tested result = Higher frequencies is more apparent but the low frequency seems like fading and sounds muddy...

Before this I was actually using the yellow analog composite video cable, the bass was clearer and louder but midrange is not as clear as now.

I prefer the new sound from the coaxial cable but the problem is the bass...


Can't help with low frequency issues as I haven't run into it; other than the thought that the RCA connectors on your cables are likely suspect.

You should also be aware that threads like this one quickly draw ire from those who purport to be "true" to science, double blind listening tests, etc. I mean AVS has that "S" that stands for Science.

I'm a science person and do not believe in black magic. But my experience is that there are SQ differences in interconnect cables.

Cheers

The best is the enemy of the good. Voltaire (1694-1778)

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post #9 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 07:23 AM
 
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But my experience is that there are SQ differences in interconnect cables.

Since the OP was referring to a digital interconnect, can you explain how a cable would affect the bits representing high and low frequencies, while not affecting the mid frequencies?
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post #10 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

You should also be aware that threads like this one quickly draw ire from those who purport to be "true" to science, double blind listening tests, etc. I mean AVS has that "S" that stands for Science.

I'm a science person and do not believe in black magic. But my experience is that there are SQ differences in interconnect cables.

Cheers

Of course

Since you are a science person, do you have any measurements or scientific tests?

My experience says there is no SQ difference is the cable is properly made. That includes properly controlled testing and measurements.

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post #11 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razr67 View Post

Since the OP was referring to a digital interconnect, can you explain how a cable would affect the bits representing high and low frequencies, while not affecting the mid frequencies?

I think you have that wrong.

The OP stated using digital interconnects (2 digital coax RG-6 cables) to transmit a stereo analog signal.

Cheers

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post #12 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 10:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

I think you have that wrong.

The OP stated using digital interconnects (2 digital coax RG-6 cables) to transmit a stereo analog signal.

Cheers

But as for the measurements or scientific tests go...
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post #13 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

But my experience is that there are SQ differences in interconnect cables.

Cheers

How did you come to this conclusion? What did you find?
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post #14 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

But as for the measurements or scientific tests go...

What about "measurements or scientific tests"?

Help us out here and post a decent ref for the OP.

And while we're at it, I'll say a few things about the "perfect world" we live in. For example:

In a perfect world we'd have square waves; but in the real world we don't.

In a perfect world we wouldn't have digital jitter; but in the real world we do have digital jitter.

All I've said in my response to the OP is basically: a) yes I've used digital interconnect cable (RG-6 solid center coax) for my analog sound and b) yes my own real experience is that there are subtle SQ differences with different cables/connectors and c) bluejeancable offers what I think is the best deal for interconnects made with RG-6 solid center coax given the outstanding Canare connectors and excellent wire that they use and d) better overall SQ (Sound Quality) differences is subtle stuff; but most noticeable with transient high frequency sound that tails off into silence (e.g. cymbals).

BTW, the OP didn't ask about "measurements/test" but already we have the usual suspects (like you) lining up and repeating all the same stuff that they say (ad nauseam) in threads like this.

Cheers

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post #15 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 11:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Help us out here and post a decent ref for the OP.

I am (we are) just following up on your claims. vvv

Quote:


b) yes my own real experience is that there are subtle SQ differences with different cables/connectors and

...

d) better overall SQ (Sound Quality) differences is subtle stuff; but most noticeable with transient high frequency sound that tails off into silence (e.g. cymbals).


Quote:


BTW, the OP didn't ask about "measurements/test" but already we have the usual suspects (like you) lining up and repeating all the same stuff that they say (ad nauseam) in threads like this.

OP sure didn't and I'm not asking him about it. Is it wrong to be curious about your claims? Lets discuss how you've obtained such conclusions, shall we? You can start by sharing the comparison method. Lets hear it.
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post #16 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Help us out here and post a decent ref for the OP.
Cheers

FWIW, your post had great info and you answered the OPs question very well.

There isnt really an need to debate the subjective nature of any differences since there isnt going to be a conclusion in this thread on that topic.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #17 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Just found out all Audioquest analog interconnects are actually made from coaxial !
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post #18 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 08:25 PM
 
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Solid copper center conductor RG6 IS NOT really stiff. Copper clad steel is though. Copper is very soft, easy to manipulate.
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post #19 of 61 Old 01-18-2011, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Solid copper center conductor RG6 IS NOT really stiff. Copper clad steel is though. Copper is very soft, easy to manipulate.


How stiff is stiff is somewhat subjective. Yes, a solid copper RG-6 like Belden 1694A isn't as stiff as a copper clad steel core RG-6, but it's still quite a lot stiffer than typical stranded core cable. It's certainly stiff enough to form to shape rather than "lay" in the typical 3-ft lengths.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #20 of 61 Old 01-19-2011, 06:29 AM
 
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No no no no no no...Stranded is MUCH stiffer, no subjectiveness required. Universal even. It is NOT stiff enough to "form". Copper clad steel RG6 isn't even stiff enough to "form".
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post #21 of 61 Old 01-19-2011, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echoesian View Post

Just found out all Audioquest analog interconnects are actually made from coaxial !

why would this be a surprise?

there are MANY different types of coax...

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post #22 of 61 Old 01-19-2011, 02:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

I think you have that wrong.

The OP stated using digital interconnects (2 digital coax RG-6 cables) to transmit a stereo analog signal.

Cheers

It really wasn't very clear.
What makes a coax cable digital if it's used as an analog interconnect?
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post #23 of 61 Old 01-19-2011, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

No no no no no no...Stranded is MUCH stiffer, no subjectiveness required. Universal even. It is NOT stiff enough to "form". Copper clad steel RG6 isn't even stiff enough to "form".

No no no no no no...

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #24 of 61 Old 01-21-2011, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Since the coax is so stiff, I've changed it and I use Klotz AES/EBU 110ohm cable now, it's soft and flexible, SQ wise more or less the time.. but I find the high is not so bright
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post #25 of 61 Old 01-21-2011, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echoesian View Post

Since the coax is so stiff, I've changed it and I use Klotz AES/EBU 110ohm cable now, it's soft and flexible, SQ wise more or less the time.. but I find the high is not so bright

How does cable make highs less bright?
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post #26 of 61 Old 01-21-2011, 11:25 PM
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Higher capacitance rolls off the highs more. Whether it is enough to be audible with a reasonably short cable is a different question.
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post #27 of 61 Old 01-22-2011, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

How does cable make highs less bright?

And yet RF, video passes with no change but Audio there is a change, don't think so. 75-110 Ohm and you HEARD a change? Don't think so
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post #28 of 61 Old 01-22-2011, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razr67 View Post

It really wasn't very clear.
What makes a coax cable digital if it's used as an analog interconnect?

Even when its used for "digital TV" or "internet" its not overly "digital". Digital transmission from the cable company uses QAM64/256 encoding which has a lot more to do with what people think of as "analog" than what most people think of as "digital"...they aren't transmitting data with a square wave but a pair of out of phase sine waves.
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post #29 of 61 Old 01-24-2011, 05:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by xianthax View Post

Even when its used for "digital TV" or "internet" its not overly "digital". Digital transmission from the cable company uses QAM64/256 encoding which has a lot more to do with what people think of as "analog" than what most people think of as "digital"...they aren't transmitting data with a square wave but a pair of out of phase sine waves.

So, the only thing that makes a coax cable digital is the people who refer to it as a digital cable.
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post #30 of 61 Old 01-24-2011, 06:28 AM
 
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Precisely...
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