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post #1 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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hi,

looking for the best amp within $1000 range for running B&W 683, rock music mostly, and need it to drive them really loud

thanks
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post #2 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 01:02 PM
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post #3 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 01:51 PM
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Why do you think you need to spend $1K on an amp? Your speakers are probably worth about that. Your speakers should be most of your budget. A more expensive amp isnt going to make them sound better. 683s are rated at 200 watts not that you cant put more into them. But 400 watts would be able to drive them to hearing loss levels. 200 would probably be more than enough. You could get a nice pro amp as mentioned above for $300 easily if you looks around. Spend the other $700 on something that will actually make a difference on the sound like room treatments.
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post #4 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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what are the pros and cons of a pro amp compared to a hifi amp, hifi amps seem to be much more expensive, whats the difference in sound quality between the two?
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post #5 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 02:24 PM
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Short answer - no difference in terms of SQ. Pro amps are wider, not as pretty, and may or may not have a bit of fan noise but they are a great choice for getting quality watts to a home speaker.
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post #6 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bezdikjack View Post

hi,

looking for the best amp within $1000 range for running B&W 683, rock music mostly, and need it to drive them really loud

thanks

I like this Bryston 4B-ST for your budget, 6 years remaining on warranty.

Will drive most speakers well should you change.
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post #7 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 02:48 PM
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Great amp but I think investing money in a $2400 MSRP amp with speakers that listed for $1400 a pair is doing this all backwards. If you have a grand to blow and want great sound invest that money into better speakers.

Also, is there a sub involved?
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post #8 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

Great amp but I think investing money in a $2400 MSRP amp with speakers that listed for $1400 a pair is doing this all backwards. If you have a grand to blow and want great sound invest that money into better speakers.

Also, is there a sub involved?

Maybe, but I chose to answer his question. The Bryston allows for consideration of other (upgraded) speakers and would work with the 683s. The better scenario is buying a $2400 amp for $1000. The 4B-ST will likely hold close to that price for a couple of years.
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post #9 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 03:43 PM
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Quote:


what are the pros and cons of a pro amp compared to a hifi amp, hifi amps seem to be much more expensive, whats the difference in sound quality between the two?

Pro amps are marketed to pros, who know what they need and are looking for a tool that will do the job. Consumer "high-end" amps are marketed to people who are, shall we say, far less sophisticated and are therefore ripe for the plucking. Hence the higher prices.

As for your original question, most stereo receivers (which won't run you even half your budget) will probably be able to drive your speakers to ear-splitting volumes. You can spend more (and most of us do), but you won't get better sound quality by doing so.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #10 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 03:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bezdikjack View Post

what are the pros and cons of a pro amp compared to a hifi amp, hifi amps seem to be much more expensive, whats the difference in sound quality between the two?

Depends.
Specifically...on your mental health. If you are a normal human in good mental health, since the soundwaves produced by both types are audibly identical, there is no difference in sound quality.
If you suffer from audiophile disorder, the sight of a Pro amp, the price, plus what you "know" about them, will cause all sorts of psychogenic sonic maladies....making then have lower "sound" (not soundwave) quality when watching/knowing/listening to them.
If you fall into the former camp, lots of options for <$1k.
$387
$400
$562
etc
Or used $500, etc.

cheers,

AJ
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post #11 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensctt View Post

Maybe, but I chose to answer his question. The Bryston allows for consideration of other (upgraded) speakers and would work with the 683s. The better scenario is buying a $2400 amp for $1000. The 4B-ST will likely hold close to that price for a couple of years.

Probably but as you see in the thread everyone else is giving him good advice instead of recommedding an amp that, while might be a good "deal" wont make any improvement in SQ over something 1/4 the price. That is what this forum is for. I am sure there are 100 amps he could get for $1000. However free knowledge will make a much greater impact on SQ than any $1000 amp will.
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post #12 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

Probably but as you see in the thread everyone else is giving him good advice instead of recommedding an amp that, while might be a good "deal" wont make any improvement in SQ over something 1/4 the price. That is what this forum is for. I am sure there are 100 amps he could get for $1000. However free knowledge will make a much greater impact on SQ than any $1000 amp will.

Fair enough, it was only a recommendation. Since sensory abilities between individuals is mostly immeasurable objectively, stating that differences in SQ at 1/4 the price won't provide an improvement, is not absolute.
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post #13 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 05:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stevensctt View Post

Since sensory abilities between individuals is mostly immeasurable objectively

Huh??
There is an entire field of science devoted to just that.
Just FYI.
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post #14 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 05:18 PM
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Lots of good things out there within your budget. NAD 326BEE $499 or the 356BEE $799. Music Hall 35.2 $799. At the top end the Marantz 8004 at $999 or the 5004 for $450. Also Audio Advisor is offering a Cambridge 340R 5.1 receiver w/an out board phono pre amp an I Pod dock and HDMI cabel all for $499. You've got lots of options I also suggest you go out and get a good first hand look at what's available. Hopefully you have some good audio stores in your area. Enjoy the hunt.
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post #15 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

Huh??
There is an entire field of science devoted to just that.
Just FYI.

Indeed there is! I've spent some time in the past working with NASA on this subject, human sensory quantification of noise, vibration, etc.
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post #16 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 05:27 PM
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I would look at NAD as above, if used don't bother you, I would look into an adcom gfa 5800. I would listen if possible to several befor you decide on one, hopefully you have some nearby audio shops. I would avoid a pro amp as suggested, you have very good speakers that really can sound great if paired with good electronics. That is why listening to different amps with your speakers is a good idea.

Mike
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post #17 of 273 Old 01-21-2011, 05:41 PM
 
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I would avoid a pro amp as suggested,

Is it because of potential problem with fan noise? If so, there are relatively simple ways to solve that.
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post #18 of 273 Old 01-22-2011, 04:58 AM
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and there are also some pro amps that are convection cooled so they don't HAVE fans to make any noise!

Look at a Crown K1
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post #19 of 273 Old 01-22-2011, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bezdikjack View Post
hi,

looking for the best amp within $1000 range for running B&W 683, rock music mostly, and need it to drive them really loud

thanks
Halo A23 @ $949

Are you looking for an Integrated, Stereo Receiver or just an Amp?



Receiver: Denon & Marantz.
Integrated: Cambridge Audio/Creek Evolution 2
Amp: Parasound 2250 (if you can go a little higher)

Marantz - MM7025 - Two Channel Power Amplifier - $799

I have NOT heard any of these mind you, I'm just pointing you in a general direction for your price range. I started out @ the 3K range & ended up in the 8K range, so be careful. Shopping in half the fun I was told by another poster, I think he is right....

GO BLUE!
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post #20 of 273 Old 01-22-2011, 06:44 AM
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Built like a tank, durable, powerful, and outstanding customer service. Highly recommended!
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post #21 of 273 Old 01-22-2011, 07:22 AM
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btw, the lower powered amplifiers (NAD, etc.) being suggested would certainly be "audible"...as the onset of waveform clipping would occur much earlier than the more powerful amp suggestions, when the OP cranks up his rock music. That's definitely one way to "hear" an amplifier
A 50-watt NAD should be able to drive his 683s pretty damned loud—probably louder than he'd ever want to go.

Until it breaks, of course. Which it will. It's NAD.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #22 of 273 Old 01-22-2011, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post
Depends.
Specifically...on your mental health. If you are a normal human in good mental health, since the soundwaves produced by both types are audibly identical, there is no difference in sound quality.
If you suffer from audiophile disorder, the sight of a Pro amp, the price, plus what you "know" about them, will cause all sorts of psychogenic sonic maladies....making then have lower "sound" (not soundwave) quality when watching/knowing/listening to them.
If you fall into the former camp, lots of options for <$1k.
$387
$400
$562
etc
Or used $500, etc.

cheers,

AJ
Not the dreaded "audiophile disorder", bested only by the more feared and insidious "scientific disorder", festering and simmering throughout this thread.
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post #23 of 273 Old 01-22-2011, 07:50 AM
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If you buy a pro amp, get one without fans. For your budget, and speakers, I like
http://www.emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

I like it because it has clipping lights - all amps should tell you when they are clipping.
Never heard it, but seems well suited to your needs.

Everything I say here is my opinion. It is not my employers opinion, it is not my wife's opinion, it is not my neighbors opinion, it is My Opinion.
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post #24 of 273 Old 01-22-2011, 10:43 AM
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I second the Adcom thing for sure, but I would prefer a 5802 as opposed to just a 5800. I know the '02 is a Nelson Pass design, but it would'nt surprise me if he had his hands on more then just that one. Acurus and Aragon are a couple more brands that come to mind that can be picked up cheaply these days. Anthem and of course Parasound, especially used, can be had for a song. Personally, i just bought another Emotiva but have had all the others mentioned above as well. Emo has a couple of little mono blocks that would be loud enough to blow your ears drums without a hassle. I do believe the majority of money should be spent on speakers. The differences I heard between all the amps compared to all the speakers I have ever had was subtle. There is something to be said for large power amps and headroom though. In the end buy what sounds best to you and what YOU want, because until you do, no matter what anybody says, YOU won't be happy.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro!!
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post #25 of 273 Old 01-22-2011, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ravingndrooling View Post

I second the Adcom thing for sure, but I would prefer a 5802 as opposed to just a 5800. I know the '02 is a Nelson Pass design, but it would'nt surprise me if he had his hands on more then just that one. Acurus and Aragon are a couple more brands that come to mind that can be picked up cheaply these days. Anthem and of course Parasound, especially used, can be had for a song. Personally, i just bought another Emotiva but have had all the others mentioned above as well. Emo has a couple of little mono blocks that would be loud enough to blow your ears drums without a hassle. I do believe the majority of money should be spent on speakers. The differences I heard between all the amps compared to all the speakers I have ever had was subtle. There is something to be said for large power amps and headroom though. In the end buy what sounds best to you and what YOU want, because until you do, no matter what anybody says, YOU won't be happy.

completely agree, the 5802 is a better amp.

Mike
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post #26 of 273 Old 01-22-2011, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

A 50-watt NAD should be able to drive his 683s pretty damned loudprobably louder than he'd ever want to go.

Until it breaks, of course. Which it will. It's NAD.

good call mcnarus, nad amps are conservitively rated as well, 50 watts would make them sing.

Mike
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post #27 of 273 Old 01-26-2011, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for your advice,

But now i am confused which way to go between HIFI amp or pro amp with same budget, some guys say that they would give the same quality at a much less price and others say that HIFI amp is the way to go.

Can anyone advise regarding this ?
Thanks
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post #28 of 273 Old 01-26-2011, 06:20 AM
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SQ between the two would be the same. However you could find a good home amp that would power your speakers to ear splitting levels for probably 300-400. More money dosent mean more SQ.

It would be better to answer questions so that we can help you. People just throwing out amp choices aren't doing you a favor. What type of system, room, listening habbits, sources, Is there a sub involved?

A $500 amp and $500 sub will crush your speakers powered with a $20,000 amp. Amps are not going to make a difference in your system unless you have a huge room with multiple speaklers, that are difficult to drive. Your money can be spent in other places that will actually make a difference in your sound. Your speakers are easy to drive and arent really a high end speaker. As mentioned 50 watts would be plenty. 100 watts slightly louder and then 200 slightly more. You would have to go to 400 WPC to play your speakers 9 db louder than the 50 watt amp. Either amount will be loud but loud is also subjective.

Give us more info.

Or if you just want to spend $1000 on an amp to say you have a $1000 amp that is fine as well. Many people spend a lot of money on gear and it sounds better to them because they spent a lot of moeny on it.
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post #29 of 273 Old 01-26-2011, 06:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bezdikjack View Post

Thanks everyone for your advice,

But now i am confused which way to go between HIFI amp or pro amp with same budget, some guys say that they would give the same quality at a much less price and others say that HIFI amp is the way to go.

Can anyone advise regarding this ?
Thanks

Absolutely
Here is the reason why there will be such a dichotomy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect

The folks with Dunning-Kruger/zero technical literacy will not be able to discern between their imagination and reality....and they can't be cognizant of this situation/shortcoming (a closed loop scenario described by the wiki link above).
You have a choice. You either accept that there are psychogenic "improvements" to the "sound" that are produced by an amplifier namebrand, price and audiophile "street cred"...which will affect your mind in the same way it did audiophile X...and therefore "sound" "better", etc.
...or you believe that the function of such a component (voltage amplifier) is to increase the signal level and contribute no "sound" of its own (real or imaginary).
The only time you will "hear" an amplifier, is if it is poorly designed (like many "audiophile" designs), or driven past it's linear limits...which is exactly what will happen with some of the lower power, but "audiophile" brandname designs.
The key to a "soundless" amplifier, is good low level (<1w) linearity (Gedlee metrics is an excellent test...and known by the "Pro's") and sufficient dynamic headroom, to offset the onset of clipping, at levels above your loudspeakers compression thresholds (not that high for your average cone 'n dome box tragedy). The higher power "pro" (and "home") amps will drive your loudspeakers to quite audible compression and distortion (audible, really real world...no audiophile imagination required) before the onset of (severe) waveform clipping.
Hence my 150w+ recommendations (with sufficient power supply rails/high power reserves and low impedance drive capability) - no psychogenic criteria required to "hear" such benefits (or visual clues, or priori knowledge, etc.).
Good luck

cheers,

AJ
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post #30 of 273 Old 01-26-2011, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bezdikjack View Post

Thanks everyone for your advice,

But now i am confused which way to go between HIFI amp or pro amp with same budget, some guys say that they would give the same quality at a much less price and others say that HIFI amp is the way to go.

Can anyone advise regarding this ?
Thanks

Make no mistake, if your amp sits out with an nice pre-amp, etc the pro amp is going to sit out like a sore thumb!! Its UGLY. It has rack ears for racking mounting. Most will have fans too (we replace them with silent fans)

If you want real power then a 2-ch 300Watt Pro amp (Crown, QSC) is what you should really buy, Great SQ, clean power and can actually driver speakers with impedance curves dipping below 3 ohms. I have a $1000 for the guy that can prove an audiophile amp has better SQ (real measurements, real test and not the common expectation bias).

If you care about looks and think audiophile name brands will make you conclude they sound better (both happen, thats okay) then buy a nice Parasound amp.

IMO. Check Audiogon for amps. You can get the high priced amps for a fraction of their costs.

Maybe a Bel Canto Evo2 ?? Im enjoying one myself this past month. Looks still matter in some cases.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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