Originally Posted by krabapple
(Yawn) No matter how much you keep trying to spin it that way, that particular duck (who seems to be your 'basis' a lot...is he all you can find? Or do you have an Arny.txt file like Chu suggests?) did not
write that every AVR will sound the same as any other AVR, nor did he write that every $1 DAC will sound the same as any other DAC -- the things you accuse him of asserting.
He spent one heck of a time, over some two months arguing that differences between DACs don't exist. If he didn't really believe what I said, "a $1 DAC in a receiver performed the same as a dedicated DAC" he has one heck of a way of stipulating it!
Nor does he believe those things. He's talking about likelihoods. And he's right that, thanks to AVRS and DACS being so audible good generally, and our measuring gear being so sensitive, a 'large' objective difference doesn't necessarily translate to audible difference.
So if I asked you or Arny if I should get a DAC as an upgrade over my AVR DACs, what would be your answer?
Arny simply doesn't hold the cartoon (Daffy Duck?), unqualified view you keep attributing to him.
Not really. It is the old situation of you all backing away from the conclusions of your arguments. Do you or do you not advocate that I analyze the performance of DACs in picking an AVR? Do you or do you not advocate that I analyze the performance of amps in AVRs?
I know of no 'objectivist' (excuse me, 'rationalist') who does.
And with it, put forth a confusing point of view. Have conviction in what you say for heaven's sake. Don't back away at the moment of truth. It lends less credibility to your point of view than more.
What rationalists hold is that it's irrational, bordering on comical, bordering on pathological, to worry about the quite unlikely chance of audible sonic difference between DACs and AVRs (compared fairly), versus things that are almost certain to make an audible difference in even an 'ultra high end' setup.
That is a debating tactic. Audiophiles care about both. You all keep positioning them about cables and such as if they never discuss speakers and rooms. In what logical world does this have to be either or?
And if I inverted your "unlikely chance" does it mean it can be that two DACs and AVRs sound different? If so, why the shouting when someone observes that? If it is possible, and you are not there to know otherwise, what is your beef with them sharing that experience?
At this point, your continued false attribution of cartoon views to Arny and the 'militant objectivists' you are so disappointed about, and your dissemination of those views to other forums, can hardly be anything but a tactic. Which is funny given how you go at lengths to portray yourself as an honest broker just trying to correct mistakes. My take is, you love to argue (and win) for the sake of it. Just like you accuse other of doing.
I don't portray myself as anything. What I do say is that I am not responsible for exodus of a number of contributing members as some of you are. Nor do I conduct myself in the manner you do. I don't just argue. I share data and analysis. I share listening experiences. I share objective analysis. None of this makes me super human or perfect. Only that I have a minimum bar below which I will not go. Most of you don't have that and that is a shame as it results in less constructive discussion.