Using Oppo BDP-95 as source, is outboard dac going to make a difference? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 02:48 PM
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It needs to be said time and again, the ignore list is your friend and saves sooooo much time!

The 2 strands of wire and a cardboard paper towel tube crowd mean for everyone to keep money in their pockets. Apparently they know best ... if only we would listen to them.

Funny story though -

Just got a ridiculously cheap ($28) replacement iView mini-media player (first one was flukey) and am listening to CD through it and ... wait for it ...it really sounds quite nice! Hmmmm? Score one for AJ, et al? Of course it is connected to a Roth MC4 Hybrid Tube preamp/amp and playing through new Polk Rti A1 bookshelfs. So the question remains exactly where is the Beef? I also listened to CD on a cheap multi region DVD player on my main system tower speakers through the same Roth unit when it first arrived and the sound was also amazing. So analog out to the Roth produces great sound to my ears no matter the source player.

My point is both sides of this issue have their own experiences and preferences. Mine is to still spend a little more and get what I Want and not what someone's Audio theory approval list tells me to buy.

Some people really need to lighten up.




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post #62 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 03:55 PM
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Some people really need to lighten up.

In general, agreed.

What I don't like is when they say it once, and then go on to say it again and again...

And also when they don't do proper quotes.

The best is the enemy of the good. Voltaire (1694-1778)

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post #63 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 03:58 PM
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"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
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post #64 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 04:15 PM
 
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FWIW I personally find the posting by amirm persuasive; both in that thread and in other AVS threads.

You should. A believer should gravitate towards the sermons of the preacher, mullah or high priest, not the agnostic or atheist. If the message fits the mind....
Btw, don't forget to link Marty to the thread where amir concocts his audibility "test" methods http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1136745. It's a barrel of laughs for the technically literate

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My own experience is that there are non-trivial SQ differences with cables and electronics.

When one is limited only by the imagination....

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If you want to cut out the nonsense posting, odds are equipment like this merits a post in the AVS $20K forum at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=86

Escape reality and hide in the cocoon of fellow believers. Cool. What about other sites, like the WTF??? forum or even more appropriate Audio Asylum? Complete lack of "nonsense posting" there for your ilk.

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Meaning pick any high-end pre-amp (or even a high-end AVR) that costs $5K or more, paired with the OPPO BDP-95 player, choose an appropriate title and post it there.

IOW, fabricate and come up with something imaginary. Sweet, he should fit right in.

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I don't know why, but people like AJinFLA and arnyk almost never post there.

The fake jewelry section? It's because I'm into audio.
But whatever floats yer boat.

cheers,

AJ
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post #65 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 04:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ClarkeBar View Post


Just got a ridiculously cheap ($28) replacement iView mini-media player (first one was flukey) and am listening to CD through it and ... wait for it ...it really sounds quite nice! Hmmmm? Score one for AJ, et al?

Umm, I'd score one for the engineer who designed it. Nothing to do with me.
Rti A1's eh? Nothing that cheap/low-fi in my lineup

cheers,

AJ
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post #66 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I have already purchased speakers (Ascend Sierra-1's) so that part is done. What I am trying to do now is, upgrade my current 2 channel system, one component at a time. The reason I asked about the Oppo DAC's versus an outboard is because its almost time to upgrade my bluray player and I thought I might spend some extra money for the Oppo and use it as my source for 2 channel as well, but, I was just wondering if the Oppo would be as good as having a regular cd player and sub $1k dollar dac because if not then I was going to buy a cheaper bluray player and a cheaper cd player and then later, add an outboard dac. Seeing as how the Oppo is up to par then this takes a lot of time, $$, and effort out of my quest!

The very best speakers probably produce distortion on the order of <1000 times that of nearly any decent DAC, probably orders of magnitude more.
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post #67 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 06:08 PM
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Facetious insult? Perfect response. Must be nice being so ... you.

I know I shouldn't ask but are you completely oblivious to your public exposure?

I was wondering the same thing...I was showing this thread to one of my evil and misguided audiophile insider friends earlier in the day who attends most of the larger audio shows and his comment was, "imagine how poor this guy's customer service must be if this is the way he acts on an audio forum....one of his customers emails him with an issue or question and he probably starts dissecting their comments line by line pointing out their naivete instead of actually supporting the customer".
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post #68 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 06:21 PM
 
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Facetious insult?

Tongue-in-cheek actually.

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I know I shouldn't ask but are you completely oblivious to your public exposure?

Don't recall ever publicly exposing myself, but there's much from college I don't recall.

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As to your comment, I won't belabor why I have those particular speakers in that particular system. There is a thread on this very forum with info for those who care to read it.

Bit touchy when the tables are turned are we?
So audiophile in nature....
Of all ironies, the pics of your system showing asymmetry, highlight exactly what I espoused about temporal flexibility of Marty's Yamaha being superior vs the "bell & whistle free" 2 ch analog pre advocated by Summa....ah, but I digress.

cheers,

AJ
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post #69 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 06:47 PM
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Tongue-in-cheek actually.


Don't recall ever publicly exposing myself, but there's much from college I don't recall.


Bit touchy when the tables are turned are we?
So audiophile in nature....
Of all ironies, the pics of your system showing asymmetry, highlight exactly what I espoused about temporal flexibility of Marty's Yamaha being superior vs the "bell & whistle free" 2 ch analog pre advocated by Summa....ah, but I digress.

cheers,

AJ

Yep, it's me....I'm the one...I'm that one guy on earth who advocates for stereo preamps.

And Clarke, you better get right on that asymmetry issue. That is inexcusable, mister.
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post #70 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 06:53 PM
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AJ,

Audiophile? Moi? That dog certainly won't hunt.

As to all of my systems, asymmetry is my middle name. And because of that, naturally I understood your "espousal" to Marty. I just don't think that certainty is all that certain, if you get my drift. Not meant as a cop-out. Taking a stand is sometimes warranted. But when it interferes with an OP's thread it becomes something other.

What people spend or don't spend on their systems is not my concern, as long as they enjoy them.




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post #71 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 06:58 PM
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Summa,

It must be a lonely job. Hang in there.




My life is an open book...wish I could read it and have it make sense.

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post #72 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 07:09 PM
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Summa,

It must be a lonely job. Hang in there.

LOL!

"What people spend or don't spend on their systems is not my concern, as long as they enjoy them."

Amen, brother!
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post #73 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 08:10 PM
 
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AJ,
Audiophile? Moi? That dog certainly won't hunt.

Then I'm not sure how you could have perceived a clearly tongue in cheek comment as an insult. Subjectivity??
Your system say's sanity. Speakers scream for directionality though

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As to all of my systems, asymmetry is my middle name. And because of that, naturally I understood your "espousal" to Marty. I just don't think that certainty is all that certain, if you get my drift. Not meant as a cop-out. Taking a stand is sometimes warranted. But when it interferes with an OP's thread it becomes something other.

That's been my entire focus. The OP. He already has the primary tool (663). Still a mystery why he would be contemplating a Oppo for the sake of playing CDs.

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What people spend or don't spend on their systems is not my concern, as long as they enjoy them.

Yeah, someone said the same thing earlier-

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I have stated this innumerable times. If A "sounds" better to you that B, subjectively, for whatever reason(s) you choose....and you can afford it, buy it. Enjoy it.
Just tread carefully if you decide to interject objective reasoning as to why.

Who was that again?

cheers,

AJ
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post #74 of 84 Old 01-27-2012, 07:09 AM
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mine is to still spend a little more and get what i want and not what someone's audio
theory approval list tells me to buy.

+1
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post #76 of 84 Old 01-27-2012, 08:20 AM
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Then I'm not sure how you could have perceived a clearly tongue in cheek comment as an insult. Subjectivity??
Your system say's sanity. Speakers scream for directionality though
AJ


Perhaps because it wasn't clear to me at all. Maybe an emoticon with a bulging cheek rather than a tongue sticking out would have helped. Call it my bad. I've noticed people who post with your style of humor(?) and approach are often recipients of responses they find puzzling. C'est la Vie!

As to the speakers, yes, a quick read of the webpage photo texts tells part of a sad story. Too little room to work with and too much stuff to place. I don't need a sweet spot, certainly not with my seating. And the poor CC stuck behind the Sammy! You would think it sounds terrible but it actually doesn't. I lay it on its back and fire it straight up the wall to the slightly lowered ceiling due to ducting (won't wall mount due to cinder block firewall and simple furring strips for wallboard). Now ask me if I love Audyssey. That's one of the main reasons I went with the PR-SC885 and the Audyssey MultEQ XT. That ... and a chance to get a nice piece of gear at a ridiculously low price. That's usually how I've bought everything in my systems ... so a snapshot at any particular time can show quite a hodgepodge, for sure.

A cherry riser for the CC is being built by one of my Brothers-in-law as I write this. Oh Happy Day!




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post #77 of 84 Old 01-28-2012, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I just want to say thanks to each and everyone of you guys for helping answer my questions! I am learning, at a slow pace, but still learning none the less. My Denon avr-4308 is being shipped back to me now, after being refurbished. So I might be playing with it in my 2 channel system in a couple of days. I do have some additional questions I was hoping you guys could clarify for me.

1. Does the Denon avr-4308 have an analogue bypass feature?

2. If I go with the Oppo and use the 7.1 analogue outputs into the receivers 7.1 analogue inputs, would the chain be-signal in the Oppo will go D to A then received by the receiver in A which must then be transfered to D again and then go through an additional D to A before being output through the speakers?

3. If I use the hdmi cable or s/pdf cable then the signal would not be converted to analogue before hitting the receiver, correct? And then the receiver would just convert it to analogue? I will probably go that way as I would imagine it would produce a more optimal sound since it goes through D to A only once?

I realize that it sounds like I am not taking some of your advise but I am really just trying to understand and build some general knowledge about this kind of stuff. I like seeing some of you guys debate these various questions as most of you have a much greater understanding about this stuff than I do.

4. Just out of curiousity how much does a decent transport and dac cost?
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post #78 of 84 Old 01-28-2012, 10:57 AM
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1. Does the Denon avr-4308 have an analogue bypass feature?

If you mean its "pure direct" mode, yes. See the manual. This mode will bypass the AVR's bass and time (distance) management and send the front speakers a full-range signal. In that mode, I think that the the subwoofer output is sent a summed, full-range signal. But the subwoofer output in that mode can be turned off if you desire by turning its individual level trim all the way down through -12dB until it says OFF. And the AVR will remember that setting (subwoofer OFF) for that mode each time you return.


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2. If I go with the Oppo and use the 7.1 analogue outputs into the receivers 7.1 analogue inputs, would the chain be-signal in the Oppo will go D to A then received by the receiver in A which must then be transfered to D again and then go through an additional D to A before being output through the speakers?

I am not absolutely certain what that exact model is capable of doing. In all likelihood all it can do is pass through what is connected to its multichannel analog inputs. It probably cannot bass or time (distance) manage them. You WILL be able to adjust the multichannel analog inputs' individual level trims at the AVR, if desired. But, again, check the manual. It is possible that it allows bass and time management of its multichannel analog inputs. Some of the DENON models higher up the lineup will allow this. If it does allow it, then, yes, it does entail an additional A>D and D>A conversion. If it does allow it, though, you certainly don't have to do that. Depends upon what your goals are.

The "pure direct" mode can also be applied to the multichannel analog inputs, btw, in which case they are still simply pass-through inputs with the AVRs unnecessary circuitry put to rest. If the multichannel analog inputs do happen to be able to be bass and time managed, then the "pure direct" mode would bypass this, making them simply pass-through inputs for whatever the player is outputting.


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3. If I use the hdmi cable or s/pdf cable then the signal would not be converted to analogue before hitting the receiver, correct? And then the receiver would just convert it to analogue? I will probably go that way as I would imagine it would produce a more optimal sound since it goes through D to A only once?

Correct. This is probably best (it depends upon your goals, though) as the AVR will probably be more capable processing-wise. But it won't just convert it to analog. It will first apply any processing (bass management, time management, DSPs) according to your goals and settings in the AVR. If you use "pure direct" mode with a digital input, it will downmix multichannel material to 2-channel.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
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post #79 of 84 Old 01-28-2012, 11:04 AM
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4. Just out of curiousity how much does a decent transport and dac cost?

This may seem to you to be a simple thing, but it isn't.

You should have a strong sense of that from this still relatively short thread that you started.

Why not just buy the OPPO BDP-95 player and find out what you can do with it and more importantly how you like it?

This past couple days I got a pamphlet in the mail from www.musicdirect.com and on the back page is the OPP BDP-95 with mention that it got product of the year awards from both stereophile and absolute sound. I've no use/liking for absolute sound but I still subscribe to stereophile and still find that worth doing.

Anyhow the one external DAC I've ever owned is a high-end Bel Canto DAC3 (~$1400 when I bought it used ~2 years ago). Rather good for coax S/PDIF input, but more limited for either USB or optical input.

A Benchmark DAC has been on my short list for some time; either the pre ($1600 list) or the HDR ($1900 list) as I want a *small* versatile unit that can also work as my desktop headphone amp. For differences between the 4 Benchmark models see: http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac1-comparison-chart

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post #80 of 84 Old 01-28-2012, 11:28 AM
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Marty- after reading your many posts, if you also go to the OPPO website and read the manual and FAQ. I think you will get many of your final Q? answered....
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post #81 of 84 Old 01-28-2012, 11:47 AM
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Why not just buy the OPPO BDP-95 player and find out what you can do with it.............?

Well, IMO, mainly because he doesn't necessarily need the 95 if the 93 will suffice. With a digital connection, whether it's to an AVR, a pre/pro, or a DAC, there is no advantage (that is apparent to me) in getting the 95 over the 93.

But it's still not clear to me what his goal is here, exactly.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
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post #82 of 84 Old 01-28-2012, 01:47 PM
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Marty,

Just check the www.musicdirect.com website already posted and also www.audioadvisor.com to see what is available in terms of the usual suspects for transports and DACs. Then you'll have a basis for comparison to the Oppos, especially as to comparative value.

I toyed with the idea of adding in an external DAC like the Music Fidelity M1-A in my setup (yeah, like I actually have room for it and could make use of it in my untreated room). With my need for room EQ and Bass mgmt., digital is my friend. Which is why the 93 makes complete sense to me as an all-in-one package. But for you, it would solve the issue of the need for a new quality CD player/transport ... with the added bonus of superb video as well. And at it's price point you could still add in a non-uber DAC later on for similar money if you still desire to kick the analog up a notch. However, the reality is the 95 does all this in the first place and appears to be the most future proofed product for the level of quality delivered in both Audio and Video. If upgraded analog is your end result, the 95 is awfully hard to beat. But as others have pointed out, it really depends on connection path.

Paul




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post #83 of 84 Old 01-28-2012, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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You guys are awesome!
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post #84 of 84 Old 01-28-2012, 08:51 PM
 
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4. Just out of curiousity how much does a decent transport and dac cost?

Audibly decent? $150-200.
Audiophile decent? >$200 to $200,000. But then only decent until next year, when an even more decent one comes out. Followed by the next year. And the next after that, ad infinitum.
Transports and DACs just get more decent every year. Really smart folks online know that (along with marketers) and are willing to spend what it takes ad infintum, to obtain decency.

cheers,

AJ
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