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post #1 of 20 Old 02-23-2012, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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As the thread title states, I'm looking for recommendations for the most realistic sounding piano recordings available. Music styles from classical to jazz, new age etc.

I've always been a big fan of the sound of a piano, but for the longest time, I'd never heard a recording of a piano that I could really say, sounded like a real piano being played live in front of me. Most of the recordings I've heard sound like just that, recordings of a piano being played. If I closed my eyes, there's no way I would mistake it for the real thing.

I've heard quite a lot of recordings of pianos, including things like Diana Krall's albums, Billy Joel, Elton John etc., and while many of them sound very good, there is no way I could mistake them for someone playing a real piano in the room. For the longest time, I considered that it might simply be the limitations of my playback setup, that was just incapable of realistically reproducing the sound of a real piano. That is, until I heard the right recording.

This question has been prompted by a couple of things, one is this particular SACD, Art Lande: While She Sleeps, Piano Lullabies:
http://www.amazon.com/While-She-Slee.../dp/B001IUU9XO

For the first time, I heard what sounded like a real piano being played in my room. The only negative to this recording to me personally, is that the pedalling is too audible. Aside from that though, it captures the tonality, harmonics and reverberations of a Steinway incredibly realistically. It actually sounds like what I remember from my friend playing the Steinway in his parents house.

The amazing thing about this recording was that when I stepped out of the room for a second, it struck me that hearing the album through the doorway, it still sounds just like hearing someone play a real piano in the other room, and actually sounds even more realistic than hearing it in the room because through the doorway of the room, I can't hear the pedalling. It sounds like someone playing a real Steinway in my HT room, except the recording makes it sound like the room is bigger than my actual HT room.

The other thing that prompted this question was reading this article on the Steinway Lyngdorf Model D system:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/steinway/1.html
specifically this paragraph:
Quote:


When the Steinway Lyngdorf System D was ready for its first unveiling in Moscow, the stage hosted five Model D Steinway grands. At the sides were the loudspeakers, in the front seats was the full management of Steinway & Sons. Ten talented young pianists opened the concert with quattre main works. The second part of the score was played above the keys where the electronics of Model D playback took over. Nobody in the audience noticed the playback half or in this case the hand sync until the pianists gave a show of hands whilst the music continued. That's when the Steinway Lyngdorf system received a standing ovation from those present. When Peter recounted this anecdote a twinkle appeared in his eyes.

It struck me that to realistically replicate the sound of a real piano (or pianos) being played, you need a playback system capable of reproducing all the tonality, dynamics and harmonics of the real instrument, but just as important, you need a stellar recording that properly captures the sound of the piano.

So let's hear your recommendations folks. What are the most realistic sounding piano recordings you've ever heard?


Max
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post #2 of 20 Old 02-23-2012, 09:53 PM
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The piano is certainly the toughest thing to reproduce. I only have 10 or 12 out of hundreds of piano recordings that get really close to live on my big sound system.

One of my standard recordings is the CD "Nojima Plays Liszt" on Reference Recordings.

I also have several excellent CDs and LPs of Vladimir Horowitz on Deutsche Grammophon. His collections recorded at his home are the best.

A great live recording is the Martha Argerich "Live at the Concertgebouw 1978-1979" CD.

The Vanguard recording of Earl Wild "Wild; Virtuoso Piano" is another great one.

"Sweet Sixteenths; A Ragtime Concert" by William Albright and W. Bolcom is very good.

Earl Wild's Beethoven "Hammerclavier Sonata" is another good one.

For jazz, the Dave Brubeck "Time Out" and other 1960's studio recordings are very good.

Dick Hyman's "Plays Fats Waller" and "In Recital" on Reference Recordings are very good.

Andre Previn's "Old Friends" with Lowe and Ray Brown is very good.

The Johann Dielmann Jazz Trio is excellent on OPUS3 records.








Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

As the thread title states, I'm looking for recommendations for the most realistic sounding piano recordings available. Music styles from classical to jazz, new age etc.

I've always been a big fan of the sound of a piano, but for the longest time, I'd never heard a recording of a piano that I could really say, sounded like a real piano being played live in front of me. Most of the recordings I've heard sound like just that, recordings of a piano being played. If I closed my eyes, there's no way I would mistake it for the real thing.

I've heard quite a lot of recordings of pianos, including things like Diana Krall's albums, Billy Joel, Elton John etc., and while many of them sound very good, there is no way I could mistake them for someone playing a real piano in the room. For the longest time, I considered that it might simply be the limitations of my playback setup, that was just incapable of realistically reproducing the sound of a real piano. That is, until I heard the right recording.

This question has been prompted by a couple of things, one is this particular SACD, Art Lande: While She Sleeps, Piano Lullabies:
http://www.amazon.com/While-She-Slee.../dp/B001IUU9XO

For the first time, I heard what sounded like a real piano being played in my room. The only negative to this recording to me personally, is that the pedalling is too audible. Aside from that though, it captures the tonality, harmonics and reverberations of a Steinway incredibly realistically. It actually sounds like what I remember from my friend playing the Steinway in his parents house.

The amazing thing about this recording was that when I stepped out of the room for a second, it struck me that hearing the album through the doorway, it still sounds just like hearing someone play a real piano in the other room, and actually sounds even more realistic than hearing it in the room because through the doorway of the room, I can't hear the pedalling. It sounds like someone playing a real Steinway in my HT room, except the recording makes it sound like the room is bigger than my actual HT room.

The other thing that prompted this question was reading this article on the Steinway Lyngdorf Model D system:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/steinway/1.html
specifically this paragraph:


It struck me that to realistically replicate the sound of a real piano (or pianos) being played, you need a playback system capable of reproducing all the tonality, dynamics and harmonics of the real instrument, but just as important, you need a stellar recording that properly captures the sound of the piano.

So let's hear your recommendations folks. What are the most realistic sounding piano recordings you've ever heard?


Max

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post #3 of 20 Old 02-23-2012, 10:30 PM
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I am mighty impressed with the piano sound on this recording.

Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 4 in G Major and Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-flat Major [Hybrid SACD - DSD, Import]

It's not solo piano, however.

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post #4 of 20 Old 02-24-2012, 09:23 AM
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This contains solo piano from Byron Janis that was always one of the most in-demand of the Mercury Living Presence vinyl discs.

http://www.amazon.com/Byron-Janis-Li...099849&sr=1-10

This is the cover of the original album (which I once had and sadly no longer do). It was only piano, not the Liszt concertos, and I am not sure that all of the solo pieces that were on that album are on this CD.

And the LSC-2605 vinyl issue of "Rubinstein at Carnegie Hall" ("Recorded during the historic ten recitals of 1961") has very realistic sound of a piano in a hall. I believe this is it on CD. Out of print but available very cheap:

http://www.amazon.com/Rubinstein-Col...0100522&sr=1-1

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post #5 of 20 Old 02-24-2012, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Sweet! Thanks for the recommendations guys. Keep them coming!

Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The piano is certainly the toughest thing to reproduce. I only have 10 or 12 out of hundreds of piano recordings that get really close to live on my big sound system.

One of my standard recordings is the CD "Nojima Plays Liszt" on Reference Recordings.

I also have several excellent CDs and LPs of Vladimir Horowitz on Deutsche Grammophon. His collections recorded at his home are the best.

A great live recording is the Martha Argerich "Live at the Concertgebouw 1978-1979" CD.

The Vanguard recording of Earl Wild "Wild; Virtuoso Piano" is another great one.

"Sweet Sixteenths; A Ragtime Concert" by William Albright and W. Bolcom is very good.

Earl Wild's Beethoven "Hammerclavier Sonata" is another good one.

For jazz, the Dave Brubeck "Time Out" and other 1960's studio recordings are very good.

Dick Hyman's "Plays Fats Waller" and "In Recital" on Reference Recordings are very good.

Andre Previn's "Old Friends" with Lowe and Ray Brown is very good.

The Johann Dielmann Jazz Trio is excellent on OPUS3 records.

Which one of the links below is the Earl Wild album you were talking about?
http://www.amazon.com/Earl-Wild-Virt...0106416&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Earl-Wild-Virt...0106514&sr=1-6

BTW, I remember listening to my Dad's vinyl of Dave Brubeck's 'Time Out'. Classic album. Anyone know if it's available in the SACD format? And if the K2 HD Master is worth the huge price jump over the CD or 2CD/1DVD combo?
http://www.amazon.com/Time-Out-K2-HD...0106723&sr=1-9
http://www.amazon.com/Time-Out--50th...0106723&sr=1-2


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post #6 of 20 Old 02-24-2012, 12:48 PM
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Listening to Corea, Clarke, White - Forever that recently won a Grammy (2 actually), right now. The first disc is live and acoustic. Sounds pretty darn good. Which reminded me that Bela Fleck & Chick Corea - The Enchantment sounds pretty good, too.

There's so many...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

.............Dave Brubeck's 'Time Out'. Classic album. Anyone know if it's available in the SACD format?

It was, because I have it. Mine is not a hybrid. SACD stereo and mch only.

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FWIW my favorite recorded piano sound is on the Mitsuko Uchida Schubert sonata recordings. Same piano and same room on every disk. Delicious, to my ears. Not everybody loves her interpretations which, as I understand it, are highly literal. IMO the Bb kills, however.
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post #8 of 20 Old 02-24-2012, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Listening to Corea, Clarke, White - Forever that recently won a Grammy (2 actually), right now. The first disc is live and acoustic. Sounds pretty darn good. Which reminded me that Bela Fleck & Chick Corea - The Enchantment sounds pretty good, too.

There's so many...............

It was, because I have it. Mine is not a hybrid. SACD stereo and mch only.

So many? Really? I've had a difficult time finding them. I guess that's where this thread comes in. So far, in my experience (and seemingly the experience of quite a few others), there are very, very few piano recordings that actually sound like a real piano even when played back on a capable system.

What do you think of the 'Time Out' SACD? How's the quality on it? I'm interested mostly in the stereo mixes since they obviously didn't record a 5.1 mix in 1959.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

FWIW my favorite recorded piano sound is on the Mitsuko Uchida Schubert sonata recordings. Same piano and same room on every disk. Delicious, to my ears. Not everybody loves her interpretations which, as I understand it, are highly literal. IMO the Bb kills, however.

I'll have to look into this. Would this be it?
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/...s+Schubert.htm


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post #9 of 20 Old 02-24-2012, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

So many? Really? I've had a difficult time finding them. I guess that's where this thread comes in. So far, in my experience (and seemingly the experience of quite a few others), there are very, very few piano recordings that actually sound like a real piano even when played back on a capable system.

Maybe I'm not as discerning. Or I really like my speakers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

What do you think of the 'Time Out' SACD? How's the quality on it? I'm interested mostly in the stereo mixes since they obviously didn't record a 5.1 mix in 1959.

Well, to be fair, most 5.1 mixes that are available were not recorded as such. But I understand your point.

The surround mix, here, is mostly for ambiance IIRC and, frankly, I don't particularly care for even the least aggressive surround treatment given to such old recordings, myself. I am sure that I have probably listened to the plain 2-channel SACD layer more than the surround mix.

As far as the quality is concerned, I also think that, generally, older recordings such as this benefit the least from being on SACD. Sometimes a particular mix and/or mastering that is available on SACD may not be available on CD, and in that case purchasing the SACD may be warranted, but I also own the Columbia/Legacy 20 or 24-bit (whichever it is) remastered CD of this album and it sounds fine to me. The CD is what I have ripped to my hard drive and is what I would listen to were I to listen to this album right now. Honestly, I have hardly even listened to the SACD. Wanna buy it?

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post #10 of 20 Old 02-24-2012, 09:02 PM
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Grand pianos even the Steinway Ds do not all sound the same. The New York Steinway sound different from the Hamburg and the vast majority of classical recordings use the Hamburg D. Not all recordings use the Steinway. Some recordings, like the Uchida Schubert set are made from a specially prepared instrument (it is one of Uchida's and she has her own technician). So the instrument itself can be a big variable. Unless you are there during the recording you just can't tell for sure how realistic it actually is to the original. Otherwise, what you think sounds real is only an illusion and your perception and preference of what it should sound like.

I have a Hamburg Steinway D and what I hear when I play is from a different perspective to what the mics are usually placed during recordings along the curvature side. When I play I hear the knocking sound of the hammers more than in recordings generally. If I turn up the recording a lot I get the impression that my head is pushed down onto the strings and this I never experience when I play for real. Recently I was playing a disc (forgot which) and I was reading the booklet and suddenly when it started for a brief moment I really thought someone was playing my piano.

Someone mentioned Horowitz's recordings above. They are special. I once played on one of his Steinways (I believe the one that went with him to Moscow) and it really is very special and no other Steinway sounds quite like it.

The exceptional beautiful solo piano sound (and performance) recordings include (not exhaustive or in any order):
Yundi Li: Liszt (DG SACD)
Bach Goldberg/Perahia (Sony SACD)
Chopin Etudes/Kempf (BIS SACD) - used to be my audition disc
Volodos in Vienna (Sony/BMG SACD)
Bach Goldberg/Gould (Zenph re-performance on Yamaha, Sony BMG SACD)
Schubert/Volodos (Sony SACD)
Schubert/Uchida (Philips SACD and complete CD set)
other Kempf and Sudbin BIS SACDs

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post #11 of 20 Old 02-24-2012, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Kilian,
Yes, I know different pianos sound different and even the same models can sound different, but whether it's a Steinway, Bosendorfer, Yamaha, Pleyel or different type of grand, some recordings actually sound like a real piano, some recordings sound like a recording of a piano.

Can you figure out which album it was that made you think someone was playing your piano?


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post #12 of 20 Old 02-26-2012, 08:28 AM
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The second one of the Earl Wild links is the one I meant, but the other one is very nice also; I have both.

I have the Brubeck Time out on SACD, CD, and Vinyl. The SACD is Columbia CS 65122 (it may have been changed from Columbia to Sony now...). A lot of the numbers from that album are also on some live concert recordings.

Amazon has 5 of his early albums, including Time Out, on a nice CD collection for less than $20 ("Original Album Classics").

Another great one is "Jazz Goes to Junior College". I was a high school student then and went to Long Beach City College and attended the concert where half of this album was recorded.

Amazon is taking pre-orders at $36 for a Brubeck 5CD set called "The Columbia Years", available March 20. It includes "Time Out" and also the "Gone with the Wind" album, which I bought in the 1970s as a double-LP set. The Gone with the Wind LP is my favorite. Superb recording and music.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Sweet! Thanks for the recommendations guys. Keep them coming!


Which one of the links below is the Earl Wild album you were talking about?
http://www.amazon.com/Earl-Wild-Virt...0106416&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Earl-Wild-Virt...0106514&sr=1-6

BTW, I remember listening to my Dad's vinyl of Dave Brubeck's 'Time Out'. Classic album. Anyone know if it's available in the SACD format? And if the K2 HD Master is worth the huge price jump over the CD or 2CD/1DVD combo?
http://www.amazon.com/Time-Out-K2-HD...0106723&sr=1-9
http://www.amazon.com/Time-Out--50th...0106723&sr=1-2


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post #13 of 20 Old 06-06-2012, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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In case anyone was following this, I've added a few discs to my collection that fit the bill:

Martin Vatter: Klangbilder 2 (recorded/engineered by Jurgen Reis on a Steinway Model D with no compression/processing, Great sound!)
Vijay Iyer: Solo (another Cookie Marenco recording, like the 'Art Lande: While She Sleeps' recording that began my quest. Better mic placement so I can't hear the pedals)
Esbjorn Svensson Trio (not solo piano, but the sound of the piano is really good)


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post #14 of 20 Old 06-07-2012, 09:43 AM
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Right now, I'm listening to the album "Stone Rose", by Ola Gjeilo -IMHO exceptionally well recorded piano on it done by Lindberg Lyd (http://www.2L.no), but then again, Lindberg Lyd has allways made exceptional recordings.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevi View Post

Right now, I'm listening to the album "Stone Rose", by Ola Gjeilo -IMHO exceptionally well recorded piano on it done by Lindberg Lyd (http://www.2L.no), but then again, Lindberg Lyd has allways made exceptional recordings.
Thanks for that. Just added it to my cart on Amazon. You're right, 2L does make great recordings. I have the Divertimenti by TrondheimSolistene, but this will be my first piano album by 2L. Looks like his latest album 'Piano Improvisations' won't be out on SACD till 6/26.

***P.S. Never mind. Looks like Piano Improvisations IS out on SACD at 2L. I guess 6/26 is the US release date.


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post #16 of 20 Old 06-08-2012, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

As the thread title states, I'm looking for recommendations for the most realistic sounding piano recordings available. Music styles from classical to jazz, new age etc.

I recommend trying Chick Corea's "Rendezvous in New York" on Stretch Records Hybrid SACD. Live, and superbly mic'ed.
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post #17 of 20 Old 06-08-2012, 09:52 PM
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Liberace with the London Philharmonic is pretty darned good
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post #18 of 20 Old 06-08-2012, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
I also have several excellent CDs and LPs of Vladimir Horowitz on Deutsche Grammophon. His collections recorded at his home are the best.

+1 I really like most of the Horowitz DG recordings.

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post #19 of 20 Old 06-11-2012, 04:06 AM
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Hi guys i'm not a classical music lover but i prefer smooth instrumental music, this classical pianist formed a jazz trio called the Jacques Loussier Trio, they have 15 cd's on the now defunct Telarc label, some will say 16 true but one of them is a solo effort, for ME not as interesting i have & like them all but my favorite is this one.

LoussierJacquesTrioSatie.jpg

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post #20 of 20 Old 06-11-2012, 04:10 AM
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Here is a sample of Jacques Loussier's album Satie


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0WkOssrm58


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2DZmnX-HkE&feature=fvwrel

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