Best A-D box to rip vinyl - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 02-25-2012, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking for a recommendation on good audiophile quality A-D converter to rip vinyl to 24 bit. There are tons of these things out there. Can't find many reviews though. Especially for the use case of ripping vinyl.

I am adding a turntable soon to my hifi. Thought I would play around with some vinyl ripping. I heard a 24/96k flac rip of 180g Lamb Lies Down and it sounded pretty good compared to the CD.

I am listening on paradigm studio 100s, with REL 528 sub. Will make the move before long to 2-channel amp, but for now using Integra 70.3 AVR. Listening to lossless CD rips and 24-bit flac via M1 Clic. Cables and interconnects are mostly Analysis Plus (Black Oval 9, Blue Oval).

New analog gear is likely going to be the Pro-ject Xperience table with Blue Point No. 2 cartridge. Still not sure about phono stage. M1Vinl looks like a winner.
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post #2 of 40 Old 02-25-2012, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fje00 View Post

Looking for a recommendation on good audiophile quality A-D converter to rip vinyl to 24 bit. There are tons of these things out there. Can't find many reviews though. Especially for the use case of ripping vinyl.

I am adding a turntable soon to my hifi. Thought I would play around with some vinyl ripping. I heard a 24/96k flac rip of 180g Lamb Lies Down and it sounded pretty good compared to the CD.

I am listening on paradigm studio 100s, with REL 528 sub. Will make the move before long to 2-channel amp, but for now using Integra 70.3 AVR. Listening to lossless CD rips and 24-bit flac via M1 Clic. Cables and interconnects are mostly Analysis Plus (Black Oval 9, Blue Oval).

New analog gear is likely going to be the Pro-ject Xperience table with Blue Point No. 2 cartridge. Still not sure about phono stage. M1Vinl looks like a winner.

This one http://www.lynxstudio.com/product_detail.asp?i=11 is very popular for that purpose.
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post #3 of 40 Old 02-25-2012, 07:01 PM
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post #4 of 40 Old 02-25-2012, 07:03 PM
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I have been pleased with the rips made from vinyl using a Roland FA-66 FireWire interface. The nice thing about this device is that it includes RCA inputs, a rare feature in devices such as these. But even nicer is the reasonable price of the FA-66 if purchased on eBay. Is it the best? Heck no, not even close. But given the gear you mention, I doubt that you want to spend thousands on an A/D.

The FA-66 can record at 24/192. I think it does a better job at 24/96, as the higher sample rate may be too much for it. Also while you can power this from the firewire bus, I had better results with the external power adapter.
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post #5 of 40 Old 02-25-2012, 08:07 PM
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Get the EMU 1616M. $349 and uses the AK5394A for the A/D conversion.

It also isn't limited to 24/96 like the furutech, You can do full blown 24/192.

And on the Lynx I didn't see a RIAA equalized input. If it doesn't have this it can't natively take turn table input.

Input spec on the 1616M (from Creatives Website):

Mastering grade 24-bit/192kHz converters - the same A/D converters used in Digidesign's flagship ProTools HD 192 I/O Interface delivering an amazing 120dB signal-to-noise ratio

Type: servo-balanced, DC-coupled, low-noise input circuitry
A/D converter: AK5394A
Level (software selectable):

- Professional: +4dBu nominal, 20dBu max (balanced)
- Consumer: -10dBV nominal, 6dBV max (unbalanced)
Frequency Response (20Hz-20kHz): +0.0/-.03dB
Dynamic Range (1kHz, A-weighted): 120dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-weighted): 120dB
THD+N (1kHz at -1dBFS): -110dB (.0003%)
Stereo Crosstalk (1kHz at -1dBFS): < -120dB Analog
line Outputs (6)

You will be hard pressed to do better and the price is right.

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post #6 of 40 Old 02-25-2012, 08:32 PM
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Emu is not bad either, but it doesn't have phono input too. I expect that OP have phono preamp for regular listening already. And he asked for "audiophile" level interface. Lynx cards are often used by audiophiles as a gold standard in A/D conversion.
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post #7 of 40 Old 02-26-2012, 07:13 AM
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The Music Hall USB-1 turntable is a perfect solution to this need for many people.

It has a decent Audio-Technica cartridge, a built-in USB converter, and all you have to do is connect it to your computer with a USB cable and rip away.

It is $249.

It also has a built-in phono preamp, so you can connect it directly to any line-level input on any integrated amplifier or HT receiver, which lets you monitor on your sound system while you are ripping.

Pretty cool, huh? LOL




Quote:
Originally Posted by fje00 View Post

Looking for a recommendation on good audiophile quality A-D converter to rip vinyl to 24 bit. There are tons of these things out there. Can't find many reviews though. Especially for the use case of ripping vinyl.

I am adding a turntable soon to my hifi. Thought I would play around with some vinyl ripping. I heard a 24/96k flac rip of 180g Lamb Lies Down and it sounded pretty good compared to the CD.

I am listening on paradigm studio 100s, with REL 528 sub. Will make the move before long to 2-channel amp, but for now using Integra 70.3 AVR. Listening to lossless CD rips and 24-bit flac via M1 Clic. Cables and interconnects are mostly Analysis Plus (Black Oval 9, Blue Oval).

New analog gear is likely going to be the Pro-ject Xperience table with Blue Point No. 2 cartridge. Still not sure about phono stage. M1Vinl looks like a winner.

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post #8 of 40 Old 02-26-2012, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

Emu is not bad either, but it doesn't have phono input too. I expect that OP have phono preamp for regular listening already. And he asked for "audiophile" level interface. Lynx cards are often used by audiophiles as a gold standard in A/D conversion.

I re-read the EMU I/O listing and they don't make it crystal clear. But on re-read it sounds like you have to supply the pre-amp.

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post #9 of 40 Old 02-26-2012, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The Music Hall USB-1 turntable is a perfect solution to this need for many people.

It has a decent Audio-Technica cartridge, a built-in USB converter, and all you have to do is connect it to your computer with a USB cable and rip away.

It is $249.

Is it a 24/96 or 24/192 device?

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post #10 of 40 Old 02-26-2012, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all for the great input. Here's another unit I ran across. ESI Dr DAC Prime
http://www.esi-audio.com/products/drdacprime/

I have seen the USB turntables before, but am opting for another table with external preamp. So trying to understand the Lynx, EMU, and the Roland.

I looked at the Lynx L22, and the cable pigtails. Looking at it on Musicians Friend I don't see that it supports RCA connections. Am I missing something here?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...x-l22-pci-card

And with the EMU 1616M, looking again at MF since they have decent images front/back, I see it has RCA and labeled as phono. But I am planning to use my own phono preamp. I don't need/want preamp and RIAA in the EMU. I couldn't see where it was something I could switch out of the circuit.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...l-audio-system

And the Roland FA-66 looks pretty straight forward, but not as audiophile as the others.
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post #11 of 40 Old 02-26-2012, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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regarding the inputs on the Lynx, from what I can tell it is balanced XLR inputs only. And from what I what I have been able to determine it is possible to adapt balanced XLR to single ended RCA with a simple adapter. Looks like male XLR to female RCA would do the trick. Thoughts?

As well, if I am going to go with the Musical Fidelity M1Vinl phono stage, then that has balanced outputs anyway.
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post #12 of 40 Old 02-26-2012, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fje00 View Post

Thanks all for the great input. Here's another unit I ran across. ESI Dr DAC Prime
http://www.esi-audio.com/products/drdacprime/

ESI is a good company an has good product. But no balanced I/O on that device.

And with the EMU 1616M, looking again at MF since they have decent images front/back, I see it has RCA and labeled as phono. But I am planning to use my own phono preamp. I don't need/want preamp and RIAA in the EMU.

From the EMU manual (so I was correct):
RIAA equalized turntable preamp input allows you to connect a turntable without using an expensive external preamp.

You don't have to use it. You can use the output from your current pre-amp. BUT the nice thing with the EMU is you can at least give their pre-amp a shot and you aren't bit rate and sample limited to 24/96.

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post #13 of 40 Old 02-26-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

Emu is not bad either, but it doesn't have phono input too. I expect that OP have phono preamp for regular listening already. And he asked for "audiophile" level interface. Lynx cards are often used by audiophiles as a gold standard in A/D conversion.

The EMU does have a phono preamp and the EMU is an audiophile card.

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post #14 of 40 Old 02-27-2012, 12:37 AM
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Here is one you may want to consider

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFire610.html

M-audio ProFire 610
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post #15 of 40 Old 02-27-2012, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

Here is one you may want to consider

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFire610.html

M-audio ProFire 610

That is a nice looking interface for $250-299...

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post #16 of 40 Old 02-27-2012, 04:48 PM
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I've been considering a PCM4222 from Ross Martin Audio.
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post #17 of 40 Old 02-27-2012, 06:21 PM
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If you are doing a bunch of A to D transfers, simplify your life and buy something like an Alesis Masterlink that works like a standard recorder. They're pretty easy to find within your budget and much easier to use. Has balanced and unbalanced in and out and records from 16/44 to 24/96. Then just burn it to a CD. So much easier and better quality than a computer. Then if you want the files in a computer, just pop in the CD and rip or edit.
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post #18 of 40 Old 02-27-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

If you are doing a bunch of A to D transfers, simplify your life and buy something like an Alesis Masterlink that works like a standard recorder. They're pretty easy to find within your budget and much easier to use. Has balanced and unbalanced in and out and records from 16/44 to 24/96. Then just burn it to a CD. So much easier and better quality than a computer. Then if you want the files in a computer, just pop in the CD and rip or edit.

So lets lay out the Alesis kit:

1. It's $799
2. The best resolution it can record at is 24/96
3. You have to incur the cost of CD's
4. You have to rip once from Vinyl to CD and then CD to computer
5. 'Better quality than the computer' is just misplaced

I will go out on a limb and state that 24/192 is inherently better in this process. I will go out on a limb and state the SQ when doing this on a computer is just as good and arguably better (due to resolution). I will go out on a limb and say the computer based setup is going to be easier, quicker, less expensive. All due the reason he won't be recording to CD and then ripping once again.

The OP will also have a state of the art sound device when all is said and done.

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post #19 of 40 Old 02-27-2012, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

So lets lay out the Alesis kit:

1. It's $799
2. The best resolution it can record at is 24/96
3. You have to incur the cost of CD's
4. You have to rip once from Vinyl to CD and then CD to computer
5. 'Better quality than the computer' is just misplaced

I will go out on a limb and state that 24/192 is inherently better in this process. I will go out on a limb and state the SQ when doing this on a computer is just as good and arguably better (due to resolution). I will go out on a limb and say the computer based setup is going to be easier, quicker, less expensive. All due the reason he won't be recording to CD and then ripping once again.

The OP will also have a state of the art sound device when all is said and done.

Please show me the white paper that proves that a computer sounds better than a Masterlink and also show where your double blind tests were published showing you can hear the difference between 96 and 192.
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post #20 of 40 Old 02-27-2012, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

. . . also show where your double blind tests were published showing you can hear the difference between 96 and 192.

Hi Harry,

It's not necessarily an audibility issue.

I copy my vinyl to 24/192 simply for post-processing bandwidth. I like to do click&pop removal after digitizing an album, and the DSP algorithms perform better with the added data. Any post-processing can introduce distortion, and the added data helps to minimize it.

I agree that I cannot hear the difference between an unprocessed 96kHz recording and an unprocessed 192kHz recording. I'm not sure I would even be able to hear the difference after processing. I simply know that the post-processing is more accurate at the higher sample-rate, so I make the effort.
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post #21 of 40 Old 02-28-2012, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

Please show me the white paper that proves that a computer sounds better than a Masterlink and also show where your double blind tests were published showing you can hear the difference between 96 and 192.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

So much easier and better quality than a computer. Then if you want the files in a computer, just pop in the CD and rip or edit.


On the reciprocal: Show me where the Masterlink is better qaulity then the computer? It certainly isn't a labor saving device. It certainly isn't a consumables saving device.

I don't know if there is a difference. All I know is if I am going through the trouble and I had the ability I would even do 32/384.

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post #22 of 40 Old 02-28-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

On the reciprocal: Show me where the Masterlink is better qaulity then the computer? It certainly isn't a labor saving device. It certainly isn't a consumables saving device.

I don't know if there is a difference. All I know is if I am going through the trouble and I had the ability I would even do 32/384.

Consumables, CDr's have become so cheap that's a non-issue and I'd argue the ease of use and backup of your raw recording makes it totally worth the meager expense.

Then you're saying you don't have the ability to do this and you don't think you can tell a difference. I've done extensive recording with many professional computer and consumer recording systems and with a Masterlink and made many albeit unscientific listening tests. But you must be right because you've thought about this. Thanks for your opinion.

The problem with computers is that their analog section is usually poor for audio. What they offer is a cost effective tool because most people already have one. Second, they have so many options and settings in both the software and the audio section of the OS that they make it easier to mess up a recording than to get it right. With a dedicated recorder like a Masterlink or a Tascam, just push record and you'll likely get it right.
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post #23 of 40 Old 02-28-2012, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

Hi Harry,

It's not necessarily an audibility issue.

I copy my vinyl to 24/192 simply for post-processing bandwidth. I like to do click&pop removal after digitizing an album, and the DSP algorithms perform better with the added data. Any post-processing can introduce distortion, and the added data helps to minimize it.

I agree that I cannot hear the difference between an unprocessed 96kHz recording and an unprocessed 192kHz recording. I'm not sure I would even be able to hear the difference after processing. I simply know that the post-processing is more accurate at the higher sample-rate, so I make the effort.

That's sounds like a valid point. I didn't bother to mention that I'm about to swap my Masterlink for a Korg to record DSD because I don't think 96k is good enough either. But I don't believe in post processing. I tried it a few times and found it to be less than transparent. When recording from vinyl, my turntable is good enough that clicks and pops don't bother me and I choose not to risk the slight reduction in quality of my recording by running the whole thing through DSP.

It does however make sense that the processor would work better with more bandwidth but I can't speak knowledgeably about that.
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post #24 of 40 Old 02-29-2012, 04:29 AM
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I can't speak knowledgeably about that.

You should put that in your signature.
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post #25 of 40 Old 02-29-2012, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

Consumables, CDr's have become so cheap that's a non-issue and I'd argue the ease of use and backup of your raw recording makes it totally worth the meager expense.

If the OP has a few hundred Albums burning all those CD's and then ripping them back is a rather large hassle and huge time suck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

Then you're saying you don't have the ability to do this and you don't think you can tell a difference. I've done extensive recording with many professional computer and consumer recording systems and with a Masterlink and made many albeit unscientific listening tests. But you must be right because you've thought about this. Thanks for your opinion.

Actually I spent 7 years installing NLE/VE and DAW suites. I was the guy that people like you came to when you couldn't figure out something in the chain. Your welcome to your opinion and I and others are welcome to keep poking holes in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

The problem with computers is that their analog section is usually poor for audio. What they offer is a cost effective tool because most people already have one.

Seriously? You missed all the posts about ESI/EMU/MAudio Pro Audio mastering devices? We aren't talking about the computers analog (native) audio. We are talking about a 3rd party device that is used to master audio on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

Second, they have so many options and settings in both the software and the audio section of the OS that they make it easier to mess up a recording than to get it right.

You are correct all that flexibility may take a few posts in a forum to tone check. Once setup though you just leave it alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

With a dedicated recorder like a Masterlink or a Tascam, just push record and you'll likely get it right.

You may be right but I'm not willing to write off the OP as a dunce so quickly.

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post #26 of 40 Old 02-29-2012, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

Please show me the white paper that proves that a computer sounds better than a Masterlink and also show where your double blind tests were published showing you can hear the difference between 96 and 192.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

I didn't bother to mention that I'm about to swap my Masterlink for a Korg to record DSD because I don't think 96k is good enough either..

Show where your double blind tests were published showing you can hear the difference between 96 and 192

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post #27 of 40 Old 02-29-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrypt View Post

If you are doing a bunch of A to D transfers, simplify your life and buy something like an Alesis Masterlink that works like a standard recorder. They're pretty easy to find within your budget and much easier to use. Has balanced and unbalanced in and out and records from 16/44 to 24/96. Then just burn it to a CD. So much easier and better quality than a computer. Then if you want the files in a computer, just pop in the CD and rip or edit.

Your claim that learning how to use an Alesis Masterlink is easier than learning how to use a computer which most of us already know is pretty strange.

Burning a CD just so you can turn around and rip it is IME a waste of time.
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post #28 of 40 Old 02-29-2012, 10:58 PM
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Please report back with what device you get as i need to get one too, but have just got a few more important things to buy first.
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post #29 of 40 Old 03-02-2012, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Very close to pulling the trigger on the EMU 1616m. I see that the 1212m lacks the break out box. Same A-D as far as I can tell. Ran across this site
http://avaxhome.ws/blogs/PBTHAL%20VINYL%20RIPS

pbthal uses some serious gear, including the EMU 1212m.
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post #30 of 40 Old 03-02-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fje00 View Post

Very close to pulling the trigger on the EMU 1616m. I see that the 1212m lacks the break out box. Same A-D as far as I can tell. Ran across this site
http://avaxhome.ws/blogs/PBTHAL%20VINYL%20RIPS

pbthal uses some serious gear, including the EMU 1212m.

The thought behind the 1616M is that it has a Phono Pre built into it. I don't know if it is any better or worse than the pre you have. All I do know is the M series from EMU is one heckuva audio device hands down.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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