Upgrade my Churches equipment - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 03-25-2012, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been asked by my Church to upgrade the audio equipment. Currently we utilize 2 channel listening and that will remain. We have a crippled Yamaha MG16/6FX mixer, Crown XLS 402 (discontinued), Tascam cc-222 MK II disc player/recorder, and two Yamaha speakers. I have enough knowledge and know how to replace the speakers and amp, but I absolutely have no knowledge of mixers and player/recorders. I would like to be able to play and record to an external HDD if at all possible. I've asked for a budget and was told to just build a system? I want to be able to present a nice system at a reasonable budget. Will you guy provide a little help?
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post #2 of 10 Old 03-25-2012, 10:43 AM
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You should call a good pro audio dealer such as Sweetwater Sound. Tell them what you want, and how much you're able to spend, and they'll recommend a system.

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post #3 of 10 Old 03-25-2012, 01:32 PM
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I asked my friend who is a world known dj. He said if the crown amp is working good to keep it. Crown's old stuff is great, especially when paired with EV speakers. As for mixers, Allen and Heath will do the trick,but really you need to look at your needs are. He said if you stick to Allen and Heath you can't go wrong.

I hope I helped some.

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post #4 of 10 Old 03-25-2012, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. As far as amps go, we want more power than the 125wpc we have now. We are looking to get an amp that can be bridged to 4ohms and put out 1000 watts. I'm looking at EP4000 or XLS2000 drivecore. I'm gonna look into the brand of mixer you recommened.
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post #5 of 10 Old 03-26-2012, 08:47 AM
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You might want to look at the Vincent SP-331 amplifier, which puts out 300 watts per channel at 4 ohms and is only $1300. I very much doubt that you need 1000 watts, unless your church is the Crystal Cathedral. You could buy two and double that by bridging, but that would probably be way more than you need. I would buy one and see; you could always buy a second one if you really need it (doubtful).

A Crown XLS2000 would certainly be a less expensive solution, but the Vincent will give you better sound quality. Either one will work.

A pair of JBL JRX 115 speakers will run $658 from Musician's Friend, and those should be a good choice for good sound and the power and reliability you need there.

Musician's Friend should also be able to help you with a mixer and associated equipment for your needs, and they have the XLS2000.

The Mackie PRO FX12 Mixer is only $279 and should be a good choice.




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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post

Thanks. As far as amps go, we want more power than the 125wpc we have now. We are looking to get an amp that can be bridged to 4ohms and put out 1000 watts. I'm looking at EP4000 or XLS2000 drivecore. I'm gonna look into the brand of mixer you recommened.

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post #6 of 10 Old 03-27-2012, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

You might want to look at the Vincent SP-331 amplifier, which puts out 300 watts per channel at 4 ohms and is only $1300. I very much doubt that you need 1000 watts, unless your church is the Crystal Cathedral. You could buy two and double that by bridging, but that would probably be way more than you need. I would buy one and see; you could always buy a second one if you really need it (doubtful).

A Crown XLS2000 would certainly be a less expensive solution, but the Vincent will give you better sound quality. Either one will work.

Wow, an expensive walk down retro-technology lane!
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post #7 of 10 Old 03-27-2012, 07:02 AM
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Before you start, you might want to read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Sound-Sy..._bxgy_b_text_b

I bought several copies for the committee that built our family's home Church many years ago. It gives a lot of good info.

I've often heard that every Church winds up building three sound systems: The original, the "member built", and the professionally-designed one. There are many tricks to be learned.

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post #8 of 10 Old 03-27-2012, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

Before you start, you might want to read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Sound-Sy..._bxgy_b_text_b

I bought several copies for the committee that built our family's home Church many years ago. It gives a lot of good info.

Interesting. The people in our church who want to influence these things couldn't be counted on to read something this thick.

Quote:


I've often heard that every Church winds up building three sound systems: The original, the "member built", and the professionally-designed one. There are many tricks to be learned.

This is the classic, often lauded somewhat abridged House of Worship version of this book:http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reinforc...ref=pd_sim_b_1

Interesting that these books run about the same bucks these days.
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post #9 of 10 Old 04-09-2012, 02:59 AM
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I do church sound (design, install, operate), and visit a lot of different churches (MDiv).

What is the building and what is the program, and it's variations? Small hall, mostly voices, occasional guest artists, movies in the hall? Rock show style 'worship'? Church means alot of different things...

Over the years, for traditional church (voice, pipe organ) with light variations (CD singing, guest musicians) I would suggest:

When, and why 2 channel? Don't all the pan controls end up in the middle anyway? What don't you want the left side of the room to hear as well?

Many smaller speakers well distributed (every 20 ft or so). After a while, you can see where the older folks have learned to sit near the speakers - give 'em more options! (Very similar to WAF.) White where they need to be, dark where they need to be - looks much better.

Amps should last 20 years - and then get recapped for another 25.

If it is a small hall, I would work on modernizing and convenience inputs - and aesthetics of same and hiding amps and such. Make sure you get a projector sound connector (with all popular options) near the projector operator - here it is, plug it in and run it yourself! Same for organist's guest musicians - give her? a small 4 channel mixer right there that feeds over to the main mixer - then she can balance the various guests musicians from her seat.

If you don't record a rock show track by track, mixers haven't really changed much - they either have the right number of inputs or not.

Be aware of pro and consumer "Line levels" differences.

Lastly, don't pay for any computer optimization of an empty hall. If you're going to pay for that, do on a day with a full hall - it really is a different building with 20 tons of flesh and fur in it!
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post #10 of 10 Old 04-09-2012, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post

I've been asked by my Church to upgrade the audio equipment.

If you want to address a more relevant group with this question, you might want to try the PSW church sound web site:

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php#c5

Quote:
Currently we utilize 2 channel listening and that will remain.

For doing live sound, 2 channel operation is often a disadvantage. The top priority is that everybody hears everything well, not some kind of a stereo imaging thing. In fact conveying a stereo image in a very large room is at best shall we say difficult and low on reward. When more than one channel is used in this context, it is not unusual to cut stereo separation down to 6 dB or less.

Quote:
We have a crippled Yamaha MG16/6FX mixer,

The MG16 were it in good shape is not an uncommon piece of equipment. Unless it is is warranty, it is probably uneconomical to repair. It was under $600 new, and it will probably cost more than $100 to get someone skilled to even look at it.


Quote:
Crown XLS 402 (discontinued), Tascam cc-222 MK II disc player/recorder,

Potentially very good stuff, often worth repairing if broken, and it if works, why mess with it?

Quote:
and two Yamaha speakers.

That could mean anything from totally inadequate to more than what you need. Model numbers?

Also, to make reasonable comments we need to have a sketch of the room including were people sit and where they lead worship from. We need to know the style of worship, the current and anticipated activities, musicans, talkers, etc.

Quote:
I have enough knowledge and know how to replace the speakers and amp,

With all due respect, maybe. Depending on the situation, professional assistance at the very least may be required. In live sound, flying speakers is often a very good thing to do, and if you fly speakers in a public meeting place you need a mechanical design that is approved by a professional engineer, and you may need to hire a rigger to do the actual emplacement. Getting the right speakers in the right places is huge critical success factor.

Quote:
but I absolutely have no knowledge of mixers and player/recorders.

You've got a good player/recorder so if you tell how you want to use it, that might be easy.

The mixer is broken, but to figure out the specs for a new one we need answers to the questions, above.

Quote:
I would like to be able to play and record to an external HDD if at all possible.

You mean a computer? These days actual live recording is often done to flash memory, even if a computer is being used. There are a ton of good digital recorders that are based on flash drives, either internal or SDHC cards or USB flash drives and this is a very economical and convenient thing to do.

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I've asked for a budget and was told to just build a system? I want to be able to present a nice system at a reasonable budget. Will you guy provide a little help?

Hope the comments above help! ;-)
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