Trying to serve two gods - 2 channel and HT - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 03-25-2012, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
soonerfann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
There was a thread on here about 5 yrs ago about this. Would love to get this started again.

My setup - room is 17.5' W x 21.5 D with false screen wall and stage. Framed for 120" 2.35 screen, non-AT. Design by Dennis Erskine.

Equipment

B&W 802D (FLR, FLL)
B&W HTM2D (C)
B&W DS8S (LS, RS, RLS, RRS)
Seaton Submersive HP (not purchased yet)
McIntosh MC402
Outlaw 770
Integra DHC 80.3

I'm about 75% 2 channel and 25% theater. Here's my plan. Place the 802D's lateral to the screen and cover the large areas seen in the picture with GOM. There will be a frame built and magnets placed so the covers are removable for access behind the screen.

Will this make the imaging for 2 channel impossible with the FL and FR being 10 feet apart? Listening position will be 13 feet back.

My other problem right now is the length of run for wire. Length to FL is ~40 feet, FR is ~35 feet. I've thought about moving the amplifier to behind the screen, but it just isn't feasible. So I've looked into an above average cable $5-10/foot for these runs to the FL, FR and C. I have 12AWG from Parts Express run for now. I've decided I'm going to scrap that for Canare 4S11, so that I can bi-wire. Anyone with any better suggestions for a speaker cable for this length in that price range?
LL
soonerfann is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 03-25-2012, 10:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 4,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Fronts could even be a bit wider depending on how close the sidewalls get.

As for better speaker wire, the 12 gage monoptice is about perfect. If you want a little better get 10 gage. No need for canare. No need to biwire.

Bigus is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 03-25-2012, 10:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
walbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
No to the biwire, no to the overpriced jewelry, 12AWG is more than good enough for 40ft - your amplifier is drawing power from the wall via 10 or 12 AWG; think about that for a minute (and it's not "close" to the source of that). The 802's are what? 8 or 6 ohms? 12 AWG is already overkill. What you have works positively fine. The resistance put in by those leads is well under what Russell has calculated to even get you a minor FR deviation; it's very low. Done and done.

Should be no issue with "imaging" for 2-channel either.

So basically, the easier answer: "^^^^ +1"
walbert is offline  
post #4 of 11 Old 03-26-2012, 08:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,176
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 239
The speaker layout should be fine. The rule of thumb with most speakers is that the center-to-center distance between speakers should be less than the distance to the listener.

I would just add a second run of the same 12 gauge wire to the existing run for the bi-wiring. I do not usually recommend bi-wiring, but for runs over 20 feet it is a very good idea. With a run that long getting the relatively large LF current separated from the HF current can be an audible improvement with many speakers. Two runs of #12 will do a very good job. The single run you have now is marginal from my experience.

Soldered gold-plated Audioquest spade lugs are highly recommended for the terminations at both ends, with red and black heat-shrink tubing for insulation of bare areas. (RAM Electronics; $3/pair).






Quote:
Originally Posted by soonerfann View Post

There was a thread on here about 5 yrs ago about this. Would love to get this started again.

My setup - room is 17.5' W x 21.5 D with false screen wall and stage. Framed for 120" 2.35 screen, non-AT. Design by Dennis Erskine.

Equipment

B&W 802D (FLR, FLL)
B&W HTM2D (C)
B&W DS8S (LS, RS, RLS, RRS)
Seaton Submersive HP (not purchased yet)
McIntosh MC402
Outlaw 770
Integra DHC 80.3

I'm about 75% 2 channel and 25% theater. Here's my plan. Place the 802D's lateral to the screen and cover the large areas seen in the picture with GOM. There will be a frame built and magnets placed so the covers are removable for access behind the screen.

Will this make the imaging for 2 channel impossible with the FL and FR being 10 feet apart? Listening position will be 13 feet back.

My other problem right now is the length of run for wire. Length to FL is ~40 feet, FR is ~35 feet. I've thought about moving the amplifier to behind the screen, but it just isn't feasible. So I've looked into an above average cable $5-10/foot for these runs to the FL, FR and C. I have 12AWG from Parts Express run for now. I've decided I'm going to scrap that for Canare 4S11, so that I can bi-wire. Anyone with any better suggestions for a speaker cable for this length in that price range?

commsysman is online now  
post #5 of 11 Old 03-26-2012, 12:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 4,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The rule of thumb with most speakers is that the center-to-center distance between speakers should be less than the distance to the listener.

Equivalent usually works well.

Quote:
I do not usually recommend bi-wiring, but for runs over 20 feet it is a very good idea.

Unnecessary.

Bigus is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 03-26-2012, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
soonerfann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm still buying into the Kool-Aid about the Canare and bi-wire. I'm afraid I'll always wonder. Ram does let you return within 30 days, unconditionally. Therefore, I could listen to A/B with my 12 AWG Dayton Audio vs the Canare and see if I can tell the difference. It's about $600 for 3 sets of 40 ft Canare 4S11 with WBT bananas terminated in a bi-wire configuration. In the words of my mama..."that ain't cheap!"

John
soonerfann is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 03-26-2012, 07:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 89
^^^

and in the words of pt barnum, "there's a sucker born every minute"...

you got some good advice, you would be wise to heed it... bi-wiring is completely useless, and i won't even start on the wbt bananas...

put that 600 bucks towards your as yet unpurchased subm hp... or if you already have the cash set aside for that, put the 600 away towards a second one...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 03-27-2012, 07:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 4,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by soonerfann View Post

Therefore, I could listen to A/B with my 12 AWG Dayton Audio vs the Canare and see if I can tell the difference.

Unfortunately, I can guarantee that the way you conduct your comparison will absolutely, without question, remove any chance of you establishing unambiguously whether A sounds different (let alone better or worse) than B.

This has been documented with decades of research. Disregard it at your discretion - you have been presented the truth, do with it what you wish.

Bigus is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 03-28-2012, 03:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
walbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Gotta agree again. Just don't waste the time on it - it's not going to help or change anything, no matter how enticing the brochure makes it sound.
walbert is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 03-28-2012, 04:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
g_bartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: cleveland, oh
Posts: 3,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 50
We have similar listening habbits and electronics. I have an 80.2 and an mc252. My mains are Carver alIII's which I have bi-amped simply because the ribbon section of my mains are extremly inefficient. I use a B&K amp to drive the woofers on the Carvers. Your 80.3 has Audyssey XT32 on board as does my 80.2. IMO, it did an excellent job of creating a very good stereo soundstage in my room. I'm sure it will do the same for you.

g_bartman is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 03-29-2012, 06:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 58
If that room is acoustically treated for multichannel playback, then use DPLIIx for music playback.

Instead of Canare and bi-wire kool-aid, I'd put that money into a second sub also.
Tedd is online now  
Reply 2 Channel Audio

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off