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post #1 of 36 Old 06-16-2012, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi has anyone got a Parametric EQ for there 2 channel system.

Preferbly current models please.

What is the process far EQ.

1. EQ seperate left, then right
2. EQ mains combined.
3. EQ seperate from 250hz up, then EQ 250hz down combined.


Thank you
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post #2 of 36 Old 06-16-2012, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Hi has anyone got a Parametric EQ for there 2 channel system.
Preferbly current models please.
It's built into my crossover, a (modified) DCX2496 and soon DEQX.
The DEQ2496 and MiniDSP will do the EQ functions too, but you might need to add the digital board for the MD if you want to go in digitally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

What is the process far EQ.
1. EQ seperate left, then right
2. EQ mains combined.
3. EQ seperate from 250hz up, then EQ 250hz down combined.
Thank you
1: Measure at LP.
2: EQ as required, as little as needed, and don't try to EQ up dips. What's needed will vary between systems, speakers and rooms, so it's suck it and see.
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post #3 of 36 Old 06-16-2012, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Hi has anyone got a Parametric EQ for there 2 channel system.
Preferably current models please.

The eq I use is no longer on the market as a new product, but you might find reading the following to be informative.

http://tigerleo.com/?p=1408
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post #4 of 36 Old 06-16-2012, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Hi has anyone got a Parametric EQ for there 2 channel system.

What is your planned use for an EQ? Tone control? Reduce bass peaks leaving the rest of the range unchanged? That will determine the proper advice.

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post #5 of 36 Old 06-16-2012, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

It's built into my crossover, a (modified) DCX2496 and soon DEQX.
The DEQ2496 and MiniDSP will do the EQ functions too, but you might need to add the digital board for the MD if you want to go in digitally.
1: Measure at LP.
2: EQ as required, as little as needed, and don't try to EQ up dips. What's needed will vary between systems, speakers and rooms, so it's suck it and see.

Thank you

Why both the Mini DSP & 2496?
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post #6 of 36 Old 06-16-2012, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The eq I use is no longer on the market as a new product, but you might find reading the following to be informative.
http://tigerleo.com/?p=1408

Thank you

There seems to bea strong presence for the Behringer products.

Are there any new models that took the place of your EQ?
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post #7 of 36 Old 06-16-2012, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

What is your planned use for an EQ? Tone control? Reduce bass peaks leaving the rest of the range unchanged? That will determine the proper advice.
--Ethan

Thank you

Bascially full range to even the response,

There is a mode at 37hz.

I have changed from my Paradigm S2s (standmouint) to Energy Veritas 2.3i (floorstanders).

Unforunately speaker placement is at a limit, the gear is in the living room.

The right speaker fires over the couch arm, which is rather thick, and also the port and lower driver of this speaker fies straight in to the side
of the couch. I have thought of moving them a bit closer together.

There is alot of soft furnishes.

I will be only making cuts.
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post #8 of 36 Old 06-17-2012, 11:24 AM
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You can't really EQ away acoustic problems like lack of symmetry and a couch in the way. EQ could help reduce the strength of that very low frequency peak though. And EQ can be used as a tone control to correct speaker response problems, or just dial in a more pleasing sound.

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post #9 of 36 Old 06-17-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Thank you
Why both the Mini DSP & 2496?
I meant they will both do EQ, not that I am using both.
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post #10 of 36 Old 06-17-2012, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

You can't really EQ away acoustic problems like lack of symmetry and a couch in the way. EQ could help reduce the strength of that very low frequency peak though. And EQ can be used as a tone control to correct speaker response problems, or just dial in a more pleasing sound.
--Ethan

Thank you

I have tried a graphic eq with resonable results, but need more flexibilty. Any ideas which eq would be good for full range.

The room is 3.5 meters wide and the speakers are 710 mm from the side wall (middle of driver) and 710 mm from the front wall (behind the speakers), also from the middle of the driver. Does this sound about right or should they be further away, space is tight?

Is a computer laptop soundcard accurate enough for REW. I use a Omnimic USB mic with the laptop soundcard, is this accurate enough?

Thanks again
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post #11 of 36 Old 06-17-2012, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

I meant they will both do EQ, not that I am using both.

Thank you

Which one do you think is better?

Thanks again
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post #12 of 36 Old 06-18-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Is a computer laptop soundcard accurate enough for REW. I use a Omnimic USB mic with the laptop soundcard, is this accurate enough?

Yes and Yes.

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post #13 of 36 Old 06-18-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Thank you
Which one do you think is better?
Thanks again
For the novice user, it think the MD and it's cheaper and generally easier to integrate into a conventional 2CH/HT set up. Don't forget the digital input board if you want to go in digitally, eg Digital source ---(dig)--- MD ---(ana)--- 2ch pre/integrated. However this may mean you'd need to make/source a case for it

I'd also ask specifics at the MD forum, as I have little experience with the unit, as I as I bought it, played with it briefly, then loaned mine to a friend who bought it, and I have yet to source a replacement for it as I haven't finished the extra subs I'll use it for. It was the basic bare 4x4 analogue only.
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post #14 of 36 Old 06-18-2012, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Yes and Yes.
--Ethan

Hi Ethan thank you

Do i calibrate the laptops soundcard for REW.

I have tried this and it gives me a strange graph.

Thanks again
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post #15 of 36 Old 06-18-2012, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

For the novice user, it think the MD and it's cheaper and generally easier to integrate into a conventional 2CH/HT set up. Don't forget the digital input board if you want to go in digitally, eg Digital source ---(dig)--- MD ---(ana)--- 2ch pre/integrated. However this may mean you'd need to make/source a case for it
I'd also ask specifics at the MD forum, as I have little experience with the unit, as I as I bought it, played with it briefly, then loaned mine to a friend who bought it, and I have yet to source a replacement for it as I haven't finished the extra subs I'll use it for. It was the basic bare 4x4 analogue only.

Thank you

I will check the MD, i have heard that the Behringer for full range has high noise?

Thanks again
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post #16 of 36 Old 06-18-2012, 03:51 PM
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I use the Behringer Deq2496.

In digital use, toslink in and out, the unit is completely dead silent. Works great, an amazing little swiss army knife for digital audio.

I can't comment on DAC quality on the analogue outs as I haven't used them at all.

MCB9u.jpg
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post #17 of 36 Old 06-18-2012, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Doc Spratley View Post

I use the Behringer Deq2496.
In digital use, toslink in and out, the unit is completely dead silent. Works great, an amazing little swiss army knife for digital audio.
I can't comment on DAC quality on the analogue outs as I haven't used them at all.
MCB9u.jpg

Thank you

What do you use it with, 2 channel full range?

Thanks again
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post #18 of 36 Old 06-18-2012, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Thank you
What do you use it with, 2 channel full range?
Thanks again

I use it in my two channel system, the unit can operate in dual mono or stereo mode. It fits in the signal chain for me like so; ALAC files on a MacMini > toslink > Deq2496 > tos > DacMagic > Nad352 > Klipsch Cornwall I.

I have mainly used the unit for it's RTA/room correction abilities along with the Behringer ecm8000 mic. At times I will let the unit perform it's eq corrections automatically (fun to watch) or do it manually.
The auto eq feature uses the graphic eq and this is mainly what I will use, although I have made use of the parametric eq as well.

I found the real time analysis function very educational, I would throw on my earplugs and send the pink noise tone out from the Deq and observe the changes to the response as I moved my speakers about the room. It was very helpful in integrating a sub.

At first I would tend to set up my speakers where I thought they should go and then eq from there, but after a while i realized it worked better taking the time to find the speaker placement that yielded the optimal response then moving on to eq from there. Lately I find myself using the eq function less.

Here is an unadjusted room response reading with my Cornwalls, since I try to avoid eq boost whenever possible, I'm reasonable happy with this as is, so I have my eq modules in bypass mode on the Deq presently.

7231483532_6b7a7faf84.jpg

I use the sound level and metering functions constantly, the unit can also perform compression/expansion, dynamic eq, feedback tracking/destruction, stereo width/symmetry. It's a fun toy, and the price is hard to beat, I give it two thumbs up.
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post #19 of 36 Old 06-19-2012, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

i have heard that the Behringer for full range has high noise?
Thanks again
No, this mainly came about here through one poster who didn't use it to it's best. This is a pro unit with high signal levels in/out as in pro use and did not set it up correctly taking that into account (using analogue I/O). If you use it digitally like Doc Spratley does, using the digital in and even the analogue out will have a noise floor exceeding 120dB.

I have never had noise issues in a correctly set up system, even with speakers of very high sensitivity.
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post #20 of 36 Old 06-19-2012, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

I will check the MD, i have heard that the Behringer for full range has high noise?
Thanks again

The other posters who report no problems with noise are telling the truth. The people who complain about noise are revealing their ignorance and lack of wisdom when it comes to a little known but sometimes critical issue called gain staging. Gain staging is an area of the audio art that you get thrown into. when you have more than one volume control in your signal path. Your first cut at gain staging is to set every volume control in sight to 12 o'clock and adjust uniformly from there until your main gain control has a comfortable feel for you and there is no audible noise.

What the Behringer and other pro-grade units have is lots of signal. The signal levels in home audio gear range from about 0.2 volts to a little more than 2 volts. Pro-grade equipment will typically run cleanly up in the 5-10 volt range but is comfortable in the 2 volt range. It is not well-applied for use with sources that only have 0.2 volt output which may include tape outputs on receivers and integrated amplifiers.

A pro grade equalizer will generally be happy when placed between a preamp and a power amp, but its not your best choice in the tape monitor loop of a receiver or integrated amplifier. If you have any noise issues when you hook an equalizer up to your power amp, make sure that the equalizer itself is not set to have a lot of gain. It is permissible to set any input level control on the power amp (if there is one) to say 12 o'clock instead of 5 o'clock to get lower noise. If you have a really big power amp and very sensitive speakers (usually a bit of an unwise move) you may have to install some passive attenuators between the equalizer and the power amp. They are low cost and can be found on the web, but not at Best Buy.
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post #21 of 36 Old 06-19-2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Do i calibrate the laptops soundcard for REW.
I have tried this and it gives me a strange graph.

I rarely bother calibrating REW because I don't usually care about absolute SPL, only the relative change from peaks and nulls.

This might help:

Room Measuring Primer

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post #22 of 36 Old 06-19-2012, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

I rarely bother calibrating REW because I don't usually care about absolute SPL, only the relative change from peaks and nulls.
This might help:
Room Measuring Primer
--Ethan

Thank you

I thought the soundcard calibration was to allow for in measurements, the same as the Mic txt file calibration?

So you don't calibrate the soundcard?

Thanks again
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post #23 of 36 Old 06-19-2012, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Spratley View Post

I use it in my two channel system, the unit can operate in dual mono or stereo mode. It fits in the signal chain for me like so; ALAC files on a MacMini > toslink > Deq2496 > tos > DacMagic > Nad352 > Klipsch Cornwall I.
I have mainly used the unit for it's RTA/room correction abilities along with the Behringer ecm8000 mic. At times I will let the unit perform it's eq corrections automatically (fun to watch) or do it manually.
The auto eq feature uses the graphic eq and this is mainly what I will use, although I have made use of the parametric eq as well.
I found the real time analysis function very educational, I would throw on my earplugs and send the pink noise tone out from the Deq and observe the changes to the response as I moved my speakers about the room. It was very helpful in integrating a sub.
At first I would tend to set up my speakers where I thought they should go and then eq from there, but after a while i realized it worked better taking the time to find the speaker placement that yielded the optimal response then moving on to eq from there. Lately I find myself using the eq function less.
Here is an unadjusted room response reading with my Cornwalls, since I try to avoid eq boost whenever possible, I'm reasonable happy with this as is, so I have my eq modules in bypass mode on the Deq presently.
7231483532_6b7a7faf84.jpg
I use the sound level and metering functions constantly, the unit can also perform compression/expansion, dynamic eq, feedback tracking/destruction, stereo width/symmetry. It's a fun toy, and the price is hard to beat, I give it two thumbs up.


Thanks for that.

The reason i have heard that they are fine for low frequencies, but too noisy for high frequencies?

Thanks
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post #24 of 36 Old 06-19-2012, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

No, this mainly came about here through one poster who didn't use it to it's best. This is a pro unit with high signal levels in/out as in pro use and did not set it up correctly taking that into account (using analogue I/O). If you use it digitally like Doc Spratley does, using the digital in and even the analogue out will have a noise floor exceeding 120dB.
I have never had noise issues in a correctly set up system, even with speakers of very high sensitivity.

Thank you

As i said above in the previous post, about the higher frequencies?

Sorry about this, can't seem to find the MultiPost on this forum?

Thank you
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post #25 of 36 Old 06-19-2012, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The other posters who report no problems with noise are telling the truth. The people who complain about noise are revealing their ignorance and lack of wisdom when it comes to a little known but sometimes critical issue called gain staging. Gain staging is an area of the audio art that you get thrown into. when you have more than one volume control in your signal path. Your first cut at gain staging is to set every volume control in sight to 12 o'clock and adjust uniformly from there until your main gain control has a comfortable feel for you and there is no audible noise.
What the Behringer and other pro-grade units have is lots of signal. The signal levels in home audio gear range from about 0.2 volts to a little more than 2 volts. Pro-grade equipment will typically run cleanly up in the 5-10 volt range but is comfortable in the 2 volt range. It is not well-applied for use with sources that only have 0.2 volt output which may include tape outputs on receivers and integrated amplifiers.
A pro grade equalizer will generally be happy when placed between a preamp and a power amp, but its not your best choice in the tape monitor loop of a receiver or integrated amplifier. If you have any noise issues when you hook an equalizer up to your power amp, make sure that the equalizer itself is not set to have a lot of gain. It is permissible to set any input level control on the power amp (if there is one) to say 12 o'clock instead of 5 o'clock to get lower noise. If you have a really big power amp and very sensitive speakers (usually a bit of an unwise move) you may have to install some passive attenuators between the equalizer and the power amp. They are low cost and can be found on the web, but not at Best Buy.


On other forum they say at higher frequencies?

Thank you
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post #26 of 36 Old 06-19-2012, 06:08 PM
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On other forum they say at higher frequencies?
Thank you

That's the nature of noise. Same answer.
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post #27 of 36 Old 06-20-2012, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Thank you
As i said above in the previous post, about the higher frequencies?
I said I don't have any noise issues. That meant anywhere. As Arny Alludes we are by nature more sensitive to noise in the 2-6kHz area but I can't hear any on a properly implemented system with 100dB sensitive speakers.

Here is a measurement of a stock DCX2496. The DEQ is basically a 2ch version of the same.

421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Sorry about this, can't seem to find the MultiPost on this forum?
Thank you
Bottom right hand side of each post is a symbol ""Multi. Click that on each post you want to reply to (it will grey out), then when you've found all you want to reply to, scroll to the end of the thread/page and click Post Reply.
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post #28 of 36 Old 06-20-2012, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

So you don't calibrate the soundcard?

It's not really needed. The frequency response of modern sound cards varies 0.5 dB, versus your room which varies 30 dB or more.

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post #29 of 36 Old 06-21-2012, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

I said I don't have any noise issues. That meant anywhere. As Arny Alludes we are by nature more sensitive to noise in the 2-6kHz area but I can't hear any on a properly implemented system with 100dB sensitive speakers.
Here is a measurement of a stock DCX2496. The DEQ is basically a 2ch version of the same.
421
Bottom right hand side of each post is a symbol ""Multi. Click that on each post you want to reply to (it will grey out), then when you've found all you want to reply to, scroll to the end of the thread/page and click Post Reply.

Thank you

I just have Quote and Reply on the bottom of each post.

Is there a setting in my computer i have change?
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post #30 of 36 Old 06-21-2012, 01:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

It's not really needed. The frequency response of modern sound cards varies 0.5 dB, versus your room which varies 30 dB or more.
--Ethan

Even a laptop internal soundcard?

The laptop is about 4- 5 years old, Acer 4315.(Vista)
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