These are the steps to conducting a truly reliable listening test - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 38 Old 08-09-2012, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I must argue that books titled like the one above make no sense in this case.
Subjective testing remains subjective as long as listening by people is involved. This is consistent with similar testing in the food industry, etc.
All we do is try to make subjective testing less biased (all testing is inherently biased) and more reliable.
True, out there in the real world. Here in the little terrarium where we discuss "high-end" audio through the Inner Tubes, "subjective" and "objective" have come to define a difference in perspective about how to evaluate audio products. That is the sense in which we refer to "objective listening tests"--they are subjective tests with bias controls.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #32 of 38 Old 08-09-2012, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

True, out there in the real world. Here in the little terrarium where we discuss "high-end" audio through the Inner Tubes, "subjective" and "objective" have come to define a difference in perspective about how to evaluate audio products. That is the sense in which we refer to "objective listening tests"--they are subjective tests with bias controls.

I am gratified to read that someone else understands the deceit of the popular characterization of this issue as being one that exists between the obs and the subs. No such thing if you understand the common and generally accepted meanings of he words.
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post #33 of 38 Old 08-09-2012, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

True, out there in the real world. Here in the little terrarium where we discuss "high-end" audio through the Inner Tubes, "subjective" and "objective" have come to define a difference in perspective about how to evaluate audio products. That is the sense in which we refer to "objective listening tests"--they are subjective tests with bias controls.

This is a good point. For the case of a typical everyday audio enthusiast or average consumer I think all that can be expected is to add a level of bias control to an otherwise subjective test.

I think that attempting to simplify the objective test into some level of bias controlled subjective test will be a benefit to this cause. As much as some of us wish to force others into always having an objective thought process it simply is not feasible. People are still going to buy AudioQuest cables, Argento Cables, and the Synergistic Research Tranquility Base, but if they do so having done a little bit of critical thinking while they test these devices, can they be more content in their decision?
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post #34 of 38 Old 08-09-2012, 08:17 AM
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People are still going to buy AudioQuest cables, Argento Cables, and the Synergistic Research Tranquility Base, but if they do so having done a little bit of critical thinking while they test these devices, can they be more content in their decision?
Probably not. Such people are going to be more content if they just ignore science completely and buy what they want to buy.

A little bit of bias is like being a little pregnant. A blind comparison that isn't level-matched tells you absolutely nothing. A sighted comparison that's level-matched is an improvement on the usual audiophile method, but if you're subconsciously predisposed to prefer one product, for whatever reason, you're still going to prefer that product.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #35 of 38 Old 08-09-2012, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe we should all give up on AVSForum. frown.gif

Or, should we work on putting the SCIENCE back into AVSforum?
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post #36 of 38 Old 08-09-2012, 09:00 AM
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Maybe we should all give up on AVSForum.

Or, should we work on putting the SCIENCE back into AVSforum?
The science is well represented here. What's your problem?
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post #37 of 38 Old 08-10-2012, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg121986 View Post

I think that attempting to simplify the objective test into some level of bias controlled subjective test will be a benefit to this cause. As much as some of us wish to force others into always having an objective thought process it simply is not feasible.

I agree that many who post here are not influenced much by reason. For many AVS seems to be the last stop for a small but not effective shot of reason before the inevitable actual purchase of what they want, regardless. They don;t want or get enough reason to change anything, but they want enough reason to make the purchaser feel good about himself.

Posts on a forum are generally not enough to force someone to do anything. If you go to court and say that you did so-and-so because of a post on a forum somewhere, your defense is in real bad trouble.

The people I write for are the casual forum readers who don't have a specific purchase in mind. Reason can have some effect on their thinking.
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People are still going to buy AudioQuest cables, Argento Cables, and the Synergistic Research Tranquility Base, but if they do so having done a little bit of critical thinking while they test these devices, can they be more content in their decision?

Trouble is that Mcnarus seems about right to me. If you are going to go to the trouble to do a test with partial controls, you are throwing good time and money after bad, If there is an actual detailed proposal of what partial controls means, of course I would try to look at it with an open mind. Knowingly allowing strong biasing influences, while trying to control others is IME like trying to be a little bit pregnant, or having a mild case of cancer. Doesn't work!
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post #38 of 38 Old 08-10-2012, 06:01 AM
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Maybe we should all give up on AVSForum. frown.gif
Or, should we work on putting the SCIENCE back into AVSforum?

Isn't that what this thread about - putting more science into the forum?
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