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post #1 of 83 Old 10-10-2012, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm new to analog. Soon to be purchasing a pair of Salk ST/SCs and thought I might purchase a turntable. All the reviews I have read have been good but its hard to find one in black. Any thoughts or suggestions on this or any other turntable in this price range would be much appreciated. Will be connected to a Marantz av 7005 pre amp with two Outlaw m2200 mono blocks.
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post #2 of 83 Old 10-10-2012, 10:00 PM
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If your looking for a black Project try the Needle Doctor. Don't forget you'll also need a phono preamp w/the TT. Plenty to choose from in the $50-$150 catagory. It comes w/a nice cart an Ortofon M Red but if you wnt to move up a few notches in sound quality for an extra $100 have a Ortofon M Blue installed.smile.gif
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post #3 of 83 Old 10-10-2012, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Why a phono preamp? Excuse the ignorance.
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post #4 of 83 Old 10-10-2012, 11:31 PM
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Being that ignorant of vinyl: why even go here? What do you hope to achieve?
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post #5 of 83 Old 10-10-2012, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Guess being new to something here is bad, I will do my own research by calling needle doctor. Thanks for the one positive comment.
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post #6 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 05:02 AM
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Your receiver has a phono stage, so the phono preamp isn't necessary.
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post #7 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by baniels View Post

Your receiver has a phone stage, so the phono preamp isn't necessary.
Wow I missed that thanks for the correction. Well he just saved you some money. Your good to go. Just take that money from the phono and spend it on some record cleaning supplies. Enjoy the TT.smile.gif
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post #8 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Class A View Post

Wow I missed that thanks for the correction. Well he just saved you some money. Your good to go. Just take that money from the phono and spend it on some record cleaning supplies. Enjoy the TT.smile.gif

Just make sure it you get a moving magnet cartridge (or high output moving coil). I think it comes with one, but double check.

Also, there are reports of the Carbon having a "hum" problem. I would look into these before I purchased.
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post #9 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 06:26 AM
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Welcome to the world of vinyl Eldecar. You'll enjoy it as it is a much more engaging experience than digital. Hunting old records down is fun too.

The Debut Carbon is a good deck. Looks like Pro-ject came up wth a real winner here for the money. Besides Needle Doctor, if they don't have the color you want, check out musicdirect.com also. Another good source for all things vinyl and great to work with. I've bought from both and they are good establishments.

Finally as pointed out, your AV7005 already has a phone pre-amp section built in and from the review I've read in Home Theater Mag, its suppose to be a pretty good one too. Good luck on journey into vinyl.

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post #10 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 06:59 AM
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Guess being new to something here is bad

By your own admission you admitted to being ignorant of major aspects of vinyl playback, therefore I thought it pertinent to ask a newcomer to the technology: why?

If you have no source material, do you intend to purchase new or used? I have seen new vinyl go for as much as 50$, and with used one, even when cleaned, expect a lot of surface noise.
I have played back vinyl for the last 45 years, and still have four sets of functional and not inexpensive turntables with the preamps. The preamp is necessary (unless build into the reciver) to correct for the RIAA compression (or equalization).
I still have around 2000 Lps, but my playback, also running a music server, is limited to hours per month, usually only to music I do not have a digital copy of, and I still purchase used vinyl.

I found in contrast to others the sound not warmer or more engaging, there is the surface noise to deal with, electrostatic charging and attraction of dust during playback, keeping the vinyl clean after initially cleaning...if you do not really take care of your records and are willing to spend the time - forget it. It is not plug and play.

Take it as as maybe unwelcome advice by someone who has a lot of experience with the technology. I have seen too many who excitedly went into vinyl, spending thousands of dollars for the new toy only to sell everything off after a few years or even months. I like vinyl despite its failings, having grown up with it. That Transcriptor in my avatar I own since 1971, and now sports an sme 2 arm with a denon dl 160, where it before had an acos with an ortofon for many years
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post #11 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 07:29 AM
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Vinyl is making a resurrection. Let the guy learn, embrace the technology and enjoy. rolleyes.gif
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post #12 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 04:00 PM
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Were you always an expert? I assume that somewhere along the line you were also a novice. He's starting out w/a very good entry level TT. If his intrest peaks then he may move on up the line to a better TT. Not a very encouraging way to welcome someone new to the hobby. Being you've been in the hobby so long wouldn't be more constructive to give him some tips that may be benifical for his first TT?smile.gif
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post #13 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 04:17 PM
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It sounds like you regret getting involved with vinyl 45 years ago Kraut. Too bad there wasn't an internet back then. You could have posted a question on a forum looking for help when you too were a novice. Wait a minute...I do believe that is what the OP is doing.

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post #14 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your valuable insight. Glad to hear I don't need a pre amp and the Marantz manual says it is compatible with a MM turntable so it sounds like I am good to go. I'm researching the hum issue now and hope to find it untrue. Peace.
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post #15 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 05:39 PM
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As someone whom has been using vinyl since a teen (before CD existed) and has never stopped using it, I want to ask Eldecar how much experience he has with it? I ask not to put you off, but to see why you're wanting to go down this path.

Vinyl is generally inferior to CD, except when the disc never made it to CD or they botched the digital implementation. It is certainly not plug and play, requires lots more maintenance and effort to use, plus the discs are generally more expensive, certainly new, and unless you know what you're looking for second hand, it's easy to buy damaged rubbish. It is not the super dooper revelatory experience a lot of audiophools would like you to believe.
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post #16 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I live in a small rural area and do not have access to nice electronics to demo. So the answer to your question would be Just Curious. You have made a valid point though. Maybe my money would be better spent on other electronics. Wanted to see what all the hype was about. I have heard though, that 180g has certain sound attributes that might be worth the purchase and there seems to be a large selection of new records available.
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post #17 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 06:40 PM
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I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to someone contemplating their first turntable in 2012, think twice about this. But I also think it's perfectly reasonable for anyone who wants to to give it a go.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #18 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 07:29 PM
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I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to someone contemplating their first turntable in 2012, think twice about this

I find it quite astonishing that advising someone to engage in an obsolete technology to be careful and warn him not to expect too much is apparently a taboo and frowned upon.
Because I have 45 years experience of vinyl I know the limitations of the technology too well.

And don't give me that crap about advice in the mid to late '60's, at least at that time we had advice based on good procedure, blind testing speakers for audio mags, and no one thought that cable (unless with corroded connectors) would make a difference. We had measurements and blinded listening tests to assess the technical quality of a TT turntables and amps, and there was no shortage of good advice from serious mags run by writers who were technically versed and came from a engineering background and not from the liberal arts.
And the Transcriptors Hydraulik Reference at the time in combination with a SME arm was one of the top of the line.

There are enough out there who gush about an inferior in every way technology, so somebody has to say that it is not at all what the enthusiasts say, don't get suckered in by the hype.
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post #19 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 08:17 PM
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Here is the problem that I have with this thread. And this seems to happen repeatedly on other threads too where good folks come to ask for advice.

The OP comes into the forum,admits he is a novice and says he is thinking about plunging into vinyl and may buy a turntable, namely a Pro-ject Carbon. All he asks is if we can help him find this model in black. He doesn't ask for anyones advice on whether he should take the plunge into vinyl or not.

So instead of answering his direct question and wish him well in his new pursuit, some launch into a diatribe on why he maybe shouldn't. Why? Is he asking us to pay for his new toy? Do we feel compelled to save him money by warning him he may be wasting it. And the very worse thing - we inadvertently insult the OP in the process by basically calling him ignorant in a round about way.

Why can't we just answer OP's questions without using them as an opportunity to write Op-Ed pieces on how we feel about certain facets of our hobby? And everyone knows what I mean about this pattern repeatedly happening. Its not just about vinyl.

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post #20 of 83 Old 10-11-2012, 09:38 PM
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So instead of answering his direct question and wish him well in his new pursuit, some launch into a diatribe on why he maybe shouldn't. Why?

Ok, if you had read the thread - and understood it - from the beginning, you might have clued in something:
Quote:
Why a phono preamp? Excuse the ignorance.

We have someone apparently without a clue as to vinyl playback, and wants to get into it? That is why I asked the question:
Quote:
Being that ignorant of vinyl: why even go here? What do you hope to achieve?

So, what again was your point?

But you are right, we should just all wish him luck, help him find that gizmo in the colour of his choice, slap ourselves on the back, sing kumbaya. and congratulate him. Ok, if that is what is wished for - another forum not worth my while.
Ciao
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post #21 of 83 Old 10-12-2012, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldecar View Post

I live in a small rural area and do not have access to nice electronics to demo.
There's no one nearby who has a decent TT and a CDP where you can compare the same disc on both?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldecar View Post

So the answer to your question would be Just Curious.
Fair enough, it does have it's attractions as a medium.
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Originally Posted by Eldecar View Post

You have made a valid point though. Maybe my money would be better spent on other electronics. Wanted to see what all the hype was about.
I personally think most beginners at this point in time would probably be better spending their money elsewhere, up until the time the rest of their system is exceptional or they have an interest in obscure music/artists that are not available on CD.
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Originally Posted by Eldecar View Post

I have heard though, that 180g has certain sound attributes that might be worth the purchase and there seems to be a large selection of new records available.
I don't agree - I have quite a few and they are not always better, sometimes not any better than older pressings, but come at (usually) a hefty price premium.

Which will give you more pleasure overall - spending $1k on a new TT and some discs, or buying a whole heap of new/used CDs with the same money, or some other better hardware, eg speakers? It's a gamble whether you'll find TTs/LPs, so I would like you to go into it eyes open and seeing clearly, which is why I quoted mcnarus below.

Personally I don't care if you get a TT or not, but if you do, I'll help in any way I can.
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to someone contemplating their first turntable in 2012, think twice about this. But I also think it's perfectly reasonable for anyone who wants to to give it a go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraut View Post

I find it quite astonishing that advising someone to engage in an obsolete technology to be careful and warn him not to expect too much is apparently a taboo and frowned upon.
Agreed.
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Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Here is the problem that I have with this thread. And this seems to happen repeatedly on other threads too where good folks come to ask for advice.
No, I think it is perfectly fair to do - the OP can ignore it or not.
As others have stated, clearly Eldecar has very little knowledge on the subject and it is far better to give a substantive viewpoint from experience (mine and others) that might give the OP some better perspective. This is far better than just listening to fanbois who can easily misrepresent the true position because of their eagerness for a particular medium.
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post #22 of 83 Old 10-12-2012, 10:24 AM
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Being that ignorant of vinyl: why even go here? What do you hope to achieve?
Being that ignorant of manners: why even go here? What do you hope to achieve?
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post #23 of 83 Old 10-12-2012, 11:34 AM
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What do you hope to achieve?
One could ask the same of you.
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post #24 of 83 Old 10-12-2012, 06:49 PM
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Being that ignorant of manners:

It gets weirder by the day. Not only is asking questions and pointing out severe problems with an outdated technology (which nevertheless can be still fun) not approved of by fanboys and their groupies, pointing out the self professed ignorance by a poster and therefore asking why he would choose to spend money on such an outdated technology is also considered impolite. Whod've thunk it!
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Being that ignorant of manners:

So, what's your point?
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post #25 of 83 Old 10-12-2012, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Here is the problem that I have with this thread. And this seems to happen repeatedly on other threads too where good folks come to ask for advice.
The OP comes into the forum,admits he is a novice and says he is thinking about plunging into vinyl and may buy a turntable, namely a Pro-ject Carbon. All he asks is if we can help him find this model in black. He doesn't ask for anyones advice on whether he should take the plunge into vinyl or not.

So instead of answering his direct question and wish him well in his new pursuit, some launch into a diatribe on why he maybe shouldn't. Why?

I guess you haven't noticed that this is a forum that has a reasonably free exchange of various opinions. Many would call that a good thing.

Problem is that if you start censuring well-expressed opinions that you don't agree with, you are opening the door for other people to censure your opinions because they don't agree with them.

Do you want to go there?

The answer to your question is that people post what they post because they want to post it. It is their opinion. As long as they are reasonably civil and on-topic, do you really want to mess with them?

Hey, I have a turntable that I use to transcribe vinyl, mostly for other people.
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post #26 of 83 Old 10-13-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by kraut View Post

It gets weirder by the day. Not only is asking questions and pointing out severe problems with an outdated technology (which nevertheless can be still fun) not approved of by fanboys and their groupies, pointing out the self professed ignorance by a poster and therefore asking why he would choose to spend money on such an outdated technology is also considered impolite. Whod've thunk it!
So, what's your point?

Since you don't appear to get it, let me be blunt. It's not what you said in your original post, but how you said it. You just came off like a dick.
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post #27 of 83 Old 10-13-2012, 02:08 PM
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^^ You just gotta love the self appointed prefects (hall monitors for the Yanks). Pot, meet kettle.
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post #28 of 83 Old 10-13-2012, 02:26 PM
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Has anyone found one in black for the OP? biggrin.gif
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post #29 of 83 Old 10-13-2012, 02:41 PM
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Why? Isn't he capable of using google and email? The distributor would be the obvious call if the big online stores don't have one.
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post #30 of 83 Old 10-13-2012, 03:22 PM
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A shipment of Carbons just came in to Sumiko last week. If his dealer has any on order they might be filled next week. Otherwise, another shipment is coming end of the month. We are told that by November everyone should be caught up. I am expecting one on Monday or Tuesday (Los Angeles).

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