Pro-Ject Carbon - acrylic platter, or mat? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 46 Old 12-21-2012, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
chileboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckcoolic View Post

I suspect it might have to do with the greater mass of the steel platter.

Yes, I think you might be right about that...I think I read someone else theorizing that, and it makes sense.

Quote:
I have heard people postulate that the steel platter could have negative interactions with moving magnet cartridges, but it was only supposition with no data

Yeah, I heard that too, I think that's a red herring. Seems to me that presupposes that no one that knows anything about manufacturing turntables ever used steel in their platters before, or bothered to test for any interaction. I suppose it's possible, but I'm guessing that the relative power of the magnet in the cartridge is actually so low that it's a non-issue. But I could be wrong.

Quote:
Already have my acrylic platter now though, I'll live with my increased THD+N in order to have the good looks.

Interesting you say that - what color is your base? I got the Piano Black, and I like the "all-black" look - I thought the white acrylic patter would disrupt that and was wishing the platter came in black.

- Mark
chileboy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 46 Old 12-21-2012, 10:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jdcrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 64
From what I have read it is a Moving Coil cartridge that has issues with a steel platter, due to the very strong magnets used in the moving coil design.
jdcrox is offline  
post #33 of 46 Old 12-22-2012, 10:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Class A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcrox View Post

From what I have read it is a Moving Coil cartridge that has issues with a steel platter, due to the very strong magnets used in the moving coil design.
Hum is almost always caused by poor ground connections between thew cart body and the preamp. Also some carts ground the body to the left channel ground pin (Shure) and others like Grado don't. Hum in the latter group is more common. And as the cart tracks closer to the motor the louder the hum. Also it's very rarely an issue w/MC carts even LOMC carts. Also considering the type of low mass tonearms you have on these TT's MC carts would be a very poor match. You have to look at basic tonearm compliance to get the best sound out of your TT. In the case of this TT something like a 2M Blue or or similar would get the max out of this model.smile.gif
Class A is offline  
post #34 of 46 Old 12-22-2012, 10:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,301
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 258
Grado cartridges will hum badly with some turntables because they are not grounded.

I ordered one for my Music Hall MMF-2.2 and had to return it. There is no way to eliminate the problem according to Music Direct, where I bought it.
commsysman is online now  
post #35 of 46 Old 12-22-2012, 10:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
callas01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,741
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

With regards to an entry level turntable, such ss a Pro-Ject Debut III, or a similar $400 dollar turntable from someone else, do most of you guys feel that the platter is always the first thing that should be upgraded when starting to tweak/add/upgrade these turntables?

if i could go back, i would have checked out some local dealers that had TT that were trade-ins or demos that list for $1k so i could have picked one up for $600. which is about where Im at in what Ive spent on my TT.

Dynaudio Focus 260s, Focus 210C, DM 2/6, Hsu VTF2 MK4, Oppo BDP-103,
Naim Nait XS-2, Jolida FX Tube DAC, Integra DTR-40.2, 55" Panasonic Plasma
callas01 is offline  
post #36 of 46 Old 12-23-2012, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
chileboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Class A View Post

In the case of this TT something like a 2M Blue or or similar would get the max out of this model.smile.gif

How do you think the Sumiko Pearl will perform vs. the stock Ortofon 2M Red? I picked up the Pearl for my last TT but upon installing it realized the TT itself was on the fritz, so never really used it. (callas01, I see that is your cartridge as well).

I'd like to mention to Martycool007, I'd also recommend buying the best phono preamp you can swing, which will improve any TT. Back when I was a bit more flush, I picked up a used Thorsten modified EAR 834P - when I A-B'd it with a Pro-Ject $200 preamp, the difference was astonishing. It even made my old Yamaha YP-450 (with a Sumiko Black Pearl cartridge) sound pretty good.

- Mark
chileboy is offline  
post #37 of 46 Old 12-23-2012, 08:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Class A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by chileboy View Post

How do you think the Sumiko Pearl will perform vs. the stock Ortofon 2M Red? I picked up the Pearl for my last TT but upon installing it realized the TT itself was on the fritz, so never really used it. (callas01, I see that is your cartridge as well).
I'd like to mention to Martycool007, I'd also recommend buying the best phono preamp you can swing, which will improve any TT. Back when I was a bit more flush, I picked up a used Thorsten modified EAR 834P - when I A-B'd it with a Pro-Ject $200 preamp, the difference was astonishing. It even made my old Yamaha YP-450 (with a Sumiko Black Pearl cartridge) sound pretty good. It depends on what you like. The Ortofons have better detail at the top end while the Sumiko will give you a warmer mid range. In my case w/Aerial 6 speakers which a rolled off at the top end the Ortofon 2M Blue proved to be a better match for my system.smile.gif
- Mark
Class A is offline  
post #38 of 46 Old 12-23-2012, 08:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
callas01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,741
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by chileboy View Post

How do you think the Sumiko Pearl will perform vs. the stock Ortofon 2M Red? I picked up the Pearl for my last TT but upon installing it realized the TT itself was on the fritz, so never really used it. (callas01, I see that is your cartridge as well).
I'd like to mention to Martycool007, I'd also recommend buying the best phono preamp you can swing, which will improve any TT. Back when I was a bit more flush, I picked up a used Thorsten modified EAR 834P - when I A-B'd it with a Pro-Ject $200 preamp, the difference was astonishing. It even made my old Yamaha YP-450 (with a Sumiko Black Pearl cartridge) sound pretty good.
- Mark
I read somewhere once that the 2M Red was really similar to the stock OM5E that came on the Debut III, so I decided I would try something other then the 2M RED, which is the one that I was thinking I would go with. The Pearl is a little bit boomy, but overall its a decent cartridge for the price. when you first get it going its really boomy, but it tightens up a little bit and settles in for a decent long term cart. I think the next cart Id go for might be either the Clearaudio Concept MM cart or one of the Grado wood carts.

Dynaudio Focus 260s, Focus 210C, DM 2/6, Hsu VTF2 MK4, Oppo BDP-103,
Naim Nait XS-2, Jolida FX Tube DAC, Integra DTR-40.2, 55" Panasonic Plasma
callas01 is offline  
post #39 of 46 Old 12-24-2012, 06:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 172
So you guys recommend upgrading the phono pre-amp first? Right now I am currently using a Denon AVR-3312 to power my 2 channel system concurrently with my 5.1 surround setup. Do you guys think I should spring for some thing like a NAD intergraded amp and then look for a new phono pre-amp? Basically what I am trying to figure out is if my Denon AVR-3312 is a suitable platform to run a turntable off of?
Martycool007 is offline  
post #40 of 46 Old 12-24-2012, 08:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mcnarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,190
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 327
Quote:
So you guys recommend upgrading the phono pre-amp first? Right now I am currently using a Denon AVR-3312 to power my 2 channel system concurrently with my 5.1 surround setup. Do you guys think I should spring for some thing like a NAD intergraded amp and then look for a new phono pre-amp? Basically what I am trying to figure out is if my Denon AVR-3312 is a suitable platform to run a turntable off of?
What preamp are you using now? What turntable are you using now? Cartridge? Perhaps it would be better to start your own thread, and explain your situation fully, rather than hijack someone else's.

In any case, buying an integrated amp that doesn't even have a phono input makes no sense at all. If you must, just upgrade your phono preamp.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

mcnarus is offline  
post #41 of 46 Old 12-24-2012, 10:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
callas01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,741
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

What preamp are you using now? What turntable are you using now? Cartridge? Perhaps it would be better to start your own thread, and explain your situation fully, rather than hijack someone else's.
In any case, buying an integrated amp that doesn't even have a phono input makes no sense at all. If you must, just upgrade your phono preamp.

I would not want a phono pre-amp built into my IA, I like experimenting with phono stages, right now I have a Bellari VP130 in place of the v-lps and its a much better phono then the v-lps or the pro-ject phono or rega phono. Its like buying a dac thats built into my IA, not something Im interested in having either.

Dynaudio Focus 260s, Focus 210C, DM 2/6, Hsu VTF2 MK4, Oppo BDP-103,
Naim Nait XS-2, Jolida FX Tube DAC, Integra DTR-40.2, 55" Panasonic Plasma
callas01 is offline  
post #42 of 46 Old 01-02-2013, 12:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
aquaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post

right now I have a Bellari VP130 in place of the v-lps and its a much better phono then the v-lps or the pro-ject phono or rega phono

out of curiousity... which Pro-Ject phono pre did you have?

2.0 > 7.1
aquaphile is offline  
post #43 of 46 Old 08-20-2013, 08:06 AM
Newbie
 
audiof001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a Herbie matt on my Well Tempered and absolutely love it. Prior to this I made my own because I didn't like the sound of anything else out there. My brother and I both use many of Herbie's accessories - they work.

founding member
www.audioboyz.com
our adventure in music and sound.
audiof001 is offline  
post #44 of 46 Old 10-02-2013, 02:48 PM
Newbie
 
Tony Hughes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

I have to say it all depends how your listening to your vinyl and what your listening for, your environment and other gear. For me it's one of the things I do regularly on a daily basis. I listen to a wide range of music, from Jazz, Soul, Funk and Rock and Roll. Adding the platter upgrade is a solid move. It defined the musicality of all my records. The quality is subtle but isn't that what true listening is? The response from my records was clear, it was a richer and sonically better all around. For a total of $528.00 the turntable and platter wasn't out of line for the quality and sound that you get. I run an NAD 317, Pro-Ject Phono Box II Pre-amp, along with the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon with the stock Ortofon 2M Red cartridge through a set of Paradigm 5SE speakers.

Tony Hughes is offline  
post #45 of 46 Old 02-04-2014, 10:12 AM
Newbie
 
jt86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Hi,

 

I read a previous post of someone saying these tables are not worth upgrading, and i must say that is ridiculous given that these tables are for people just getting into turntables. This table is a good price for the very reason that it does not have the high quality parts of other turntables, which can be purchased as upgrades to improve the sound.

 

Personally i feel your speakers and amplifiers are top priority for sound, proper turntable setup, and keeping your vinyl as clean as possible. However i have made upgrades to the Debut III and the 3 most important for me was the Audio Technica AT120E/T cartridge for better frequency response, cork/rubber mat for less static, and a record weight of at least 300 grams. The record weight in my opinion was the best upgrade because it stabalizes the record which added a lot of sonic clarity to the highs and definately more punch to the bass. The three of these will run about 250$ and i have personally tried the acrylic platter and it was not worth the price imo.

 

I bought a new Rega RP3 and my upgraded Debut III sounds every bit compable when playing the Hi-fi News Analogue Test LP.

jt86 is offline  
post #46 of 46 Old 02-24-2014, 05:58 AM
Member
 
ricardovasco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi all. I got a Project Carbon + Phono Box S - MM/MC phono preamplifier pushed by a Wired for Sound STI500 integrated + W4S DAC 1 upgraded + Elac BS244 speakers. Im wondering to do some upgrade for my TT. Do you guys think the acrylic platter is a decent upgrade or not so much difference from the stock platter one?

Thanks.

Ricardo
ricardovasco is offline  
Reply 2-Channel Audio



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off