what is the difference in quality for a vintage rotel from 70s or 80s compared to new rotel receivers/ amps? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Is it the same quality, but not as big of transformers and may not be able to handle 4ohms? anyone compared both?
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post #2 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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low wattage, but example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xWq24h4iKs
bigger vintage rotel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhQly3bDVAA
compared to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKx7KMbq-LA
ps i DIdn't know about this new rotel. I thought that the last model was still the ra 1520. a few months ago dealers told me that rotel had no other current rotel integrated amps.
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post #3 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 05:50 PM
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Is it the same quality
A 40 year old amp is liable to have a few components that are past their sell-by date. Other than that, they will sound identical.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #4 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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true mcnarus it might need re capped. I see what you mean.
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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the new rotel is kind of cool, because of the dac. I have never used a dac before, but I hear that they make digital music sound so much better. do you use dacs?
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 06:37 PM
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I have never used a dac before
Of course you have. You have a CD player, right? And an iPod? And you can get sound out of your computer, true? You've got DACs all over the place!

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #7 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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okay I didn't think about it like that. you are right.
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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if the old amps parts still work perfectly and the sound is the same, then people are wasting money on a new rotel amp? Is part of the reason that some of the vintage Rotel amps under a 100 dollars because of how they look? People might think that they look ugly and don't match decor?
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 06:58 PM
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As a long time owner of vintage (I used to buy 'vintage' gear when it was new) and newer audio gear I see a very large difference in quality of what is built today vs the 70s - which IMO is the pinnacle of quality built audio gear. Very often all an old piece of gear needs to play like the day they were built is a shot of deoxit on the volume & tone pots and the switches. Recapping is often a necessity with 40+ year old stuff but its worth it - unlike most newer gear. Aluminum must have been cheap back then - my early 70's Kenwood KA-4006 integrated amp has more on the faceplate than any modern receiver made today. By the early 1980's most everything was black plastic. Its been that way ever since. If you've never played with the dial of an old tuner like my Technics ST-8600 you should give it a try. My day to day tuner is a Yamaha T-85 - a 1985 model that is ---- all black plastic! Works fantastic too. I'd use the Marantz 2225 receiver but it doesn't have that great of a tuner.

Gotta love that old 70's stuff.

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post #10 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 06:59 PM
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if the old amps parts still work perfectly and the sound is the same, then people are wasting money on a new rotel amp?
Maybe, but there are lots of reasons to upgrade, so I wouldn't characterize anything someone might do as a "waste."
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Is part of the reason that some of the vintage Rotel amps under a 100 dollars because of how they look?
Who knows? An integrated amp is an outdated technology, and Rotel was never a super-premium brand (which made it a very good bargain). Audiophiles are fickle. I wouldn't want to guess why they value some vintage components over others.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #11 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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mcnarus do you like the older gear that is Aluminum? Glad to see someone appreciates Kenwood knucklehead:)
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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mcnarus do you mean that the newer technology is audyssey etc?
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post #13 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I heard from a worker when I bought my nad that the newer tuners don't pick up stations as well.
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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the new rotel ra10 and rotel ra 12 mcnarus looks like it is only available in the uk and other places. I hope that it comes to the usa.
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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knuckle do you mean because the old amps were built in japan and other places instead of china with bad quality control? the old amps had bigger heatsinks and transformers?
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post #16 of 19 Old 12-19-2012, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post


if the old amps parts still work perfectly and the sound is the same, then people are wasting money on a new rotel amp?

First off, your fundamental assumption being that "the old amps parts still work perfectly and the sound is the same" is a hypothesis that needs to be tested, one old amp at a time.

As Knucklehead says:

"Very often all an old piece of gear needs to play like the day they were built is a shot of Deoxit on the volume & tone pots and the switches. Recapping is often a necessity with 40+ year old stuff but its worth it - unlike most newer gear"

The above statement covers a very large span - like the difference between soup and nuts. The possible courses of action range from doing almost nothing to a total rebuild.

I agree that some old gear needs nothing but a little cleaning and some needs a very thorough refurbishment. You can tell which is which by simply looking at it. Hooking it up and listening gets you further down the road but the best way to form a strategy for putting old gear back into service is thorough bench testing which takes resources that the average audiophile lacks. The average audiophile lacks the resources to do a thorough recapping and replacement of other parts that degrade in use or storage.

When equipment is refurbished most of it remains old. Old parts are ticking time bombs. One argument says that they can be more reliable because they have lasted so long and still work while another argument says that their technological clock has been ticking for years and will go off tomorrow. It just isn't tomorrow yet! Both rules can apply to different parts in the same component.
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Is part of the reason that some of the vintage Rotel amps under a 100 dollars because of how they look? People might think that they look ugly and don't match decor?

Used equipment values are interesting. Look at the prices paid for used MacIntosh, and early Marantz as compared to Fisher and H.H. Scott as compared to Dynakit and Sherwood. The differences now are often far greater when everything was new.

Why are Rotel prices what they are? Well first off they are pretty good because much equipment from that era is pretty much worthless. Rotel entered the market relatively late compared to the manufacturers I just mentioned so the age factor isn't there.

In the modern equipment market we have equipment like analog 2-channel receivers, integrated amps and power amps that could have been built as they are today but 30 years ago. OTOH, we have the modern mainstream AVRs that could not have been built as they are today even just 3 years ago because of the advanced technology that is within them.
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post #17 of 19 Old 12-19-2012, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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you make good points arny. you and mcnarus are right a lot.
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post #18 of 19 Old 12-19-2012, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Arny I do hear a lot on this forum about the wife not liking the color or size of the receiver or speakers. I thought that maybe some peoples wife's made the husband turn away from the older solid state amp because it is not the prettiest to them. Women go to extremes with how everything has to match sometimes. you said that most equipment from that era was worthless. what about the great sounding heath amp though? I have a heath pre amp and power amp. it sounds so good. I like how my older zenith receiver shows my signal strength for stations. is zenith kind of junk though?
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post #19 of 19 Old 12-19-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

Arny I do hear a lot on this forum about the wife not liking the color or size of the receiver or speakers.

I'm betting much more the speakers than anything else.
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I thought that maybe some peoples wife's made the husband turn away from the older solid state amp because it is not the prettiest to them. Women go to extremes with how everything has to match sometimes.

I am a poor person to comment on that because my wife is very easy to get along with about such things. She is far more critical about ease of use and that comes down to remote controls in this day and age.
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you said that most equipment from that era was worthless.

What I said is that as useful tools go, they pose some challenges particularly on the grounds of reliability.
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what about the great sounding heath amp though? I have a heath pre amp and power amp. it sounds so good.

This is all your stuff and if it pleases you, enjoy!
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I like how my older zenith receiver shows my signal strength for stations. is zenith kind of junk though?

Zenith was sort of mainstream upper crust back in the day. Usually above the middle but generally not spectacular. I think that the brand had more panache in the 1930s than in the 1960s.
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