Good sound from PC, recommendations? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 12-21-2012, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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First off, for my living room home theater, I'm using Outlaw Audio Pre-Amp and Amp with B&W 804S/HTM3S speakers.

Naturally I can't afford a second setup like this for a bedroom PC, and since my JBL Media 3 speakers are on their way out, I need to upgrade to something better.
My current sound card is a Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum that I've had for about 7 years and it still works fine. Though I'm not sure if I'd need a better card.

Anyway, I was thinking about the B&W MM-1 PC USB speakers, but for their $500 price, I'm not liking the reports of the "white noise / hiss" that people get with them.

So was thinking about going with a receiver connected to my sound card using its rear mini RCA out, or the Optical Toslink out via the front port. And then standard bookshelf speakers, such as the B&W 686, CM1, Monitor Audio Motion 15.

Since I'm not rushed to buy something imminently, I can take my time and try out different components. But would still appreciate some advice on getting good sound from my PC.
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post #2 of 22 Old 12-21-2012, 10:52 PM
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How about a pair of self powered speakers? The Emotiva AirMotiv's get some pretty good reviews - you won't need a receiver - and since they play down to 52hz you won't need a sub unless you're a bass-head.

When all else fails - RTFM!

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post #3 of 22 Old 12-22-2012, 09:33 AM
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I use the Audioengine 2 speakers for my PC; they are very good and have built-in amplifiers; $200.

I get great sound from them just using the audio output jack of the mother board.

Check out the review Stereophile did on them.
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post #4 of 22 Old 12-24-2012, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

How about a pair of self powered speakers? The Emotiva AirMotiv's get some pretty good reviews - you won't need a receiver - and since they play down to 52hz you won't need a sub unless you're a bass-head.
I guess those you have to buy direct, no one local sell them - or that you can hear first.
Since I was near a Best Buy this weekend, I stopped in and they have the B&W MM-1 in stock, but the display model was not connected, so I decided to buy them to try out.
Been using them for 2 days, and for $500 I'm not impressed.
The sound is very closed & boxed, instead of being open (like on my JBL Media 3) and the white noise from them can be heard whenever they are turned on.
After doing some A/B comparison with the MM-1 and my JBLs, the older JBLs sound better.
If it wasn't for the few problems I have with the JBLs (volume nob is scratchy, left speaker cuts-out), I would keep them.

But I did see that Best Buy as the Marantz NR1403 receiver on sale for $349. So I'm thinking about buying that with the B&W 686 or CM1 bookshelf speakers, and returning the MM-1.
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post #5 of 22 Old 01-10-2013, 05:25 PM
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If you connect computer to the receiver I suggest using a toslink cable. I used an RCA mini a long time ago and got a ground loop hum (which may or may not have been more a function of the power in my apt.). A toslink connection got rid of that.
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-10-2013, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Galager View Post

If you connect computer to the receiver I suggest using a toslink cable. I used an RCA mini a long time ago and got a ground loop hum (which may or may not have been more a function of the power in my apt.). A toslink connection got rid of that.

Ground loops are very common with PC's because they have 3-wire plugs. Using a Toslink connection is a good solution. Other solutions include using ground isolators or balanced connections.
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post #7 of 22 Old 01-11-2013, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Galager View Post

If you connect computer to the receiver I suggest using a toslink cable. I used an RCA mini a long time ago and got a ground loop hum (which may or may not have been more a function of the power in my apt.). A toslink connection got rid of that.
At this point I'm thinking of going one of these paths:
1) Audioengine 5+ speakers with Audioengine D1 DAC using Toslink optical cable from my Sound Blaster card's front drive bay (as there isn't an optical on the rear of the card).
2) B&W 686 speakers with Onkyo A-9050 integrated AMP, since it has a DAC built-in, still using the Toslink from the sound card.

Option 1 would run around $570, while Option 2 would be around $980.
I'm not sure which would sound better, but I like idea more of option 2 since its keeping the amp and speakers separate, so if there's ever an issue, they could be changed-out independently.
But with the 1st option the amp is built in the speakers (like my current JBL Media 3), and if something goes out, they all have to be replaced.
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post #8 of 22 Old 01-11-2013, 07:24 PM
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I'm halfway there with the Emotiva Airmotiv 5's. I just need a DAC that does 24/192 across-the-board. I looked at the Audioengine D1, Matrix Mini, Lindemann USB-DAC, Aune X1 mkII, Parasound ZDac, and Emotiva XDA-2. Really like the Aune and Parasound but neither of them do 24/192 over USB. The Audioengine doesn't even do 24/192 and some of the others only do a pitiful 16/48 over USB. Only one that seems to do 24/192 on S/PDIF, TosLink, and USB is the Emotiva but it is HUGE compared to the other options. I was wanting something that could sit on top on my mini-computer, like the Parasound ZDac or Aune. The Parasound does 24/96 over USB, which would be OK, but I would rather have the 24/192 just in case I want to send that over USB.

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post #9 of 22 Old 01-12-2013, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

I'm halfway there with the Emotiva Airmotiv 5's. I just need a DAC that does 24/192 across-the-board. I looked at the Audioengine D1, Matrix Mini, Lindemann USB-DAC, Aune X1 mkII, Parasound ZDac, and Emotiva XDA-2. Really like the Aune and Parasound but neither of them do 24/192 over USB. The Audioengine doesn't even do 24/192 and some of the others only do a pitiful 16/48 over USB. Only one that seems to do 24/192 on S/PDIF, TosLink, and USB is the Emotiva but it is HUGE compared to the other options. I was wanting something that could sit on top on my mini-computer, like the Parasound ZDac or Aune. The Parasound does 24/96 over USB, which would be OK, but I would rather have the 24/192 just in case I want to send that over USB.
I thought I read somewhere that USB in Windows can't output at 24/192, that's why most all USB DACs are at 24/96. The ones that can do USB 24/192 require some type of special software/driver/mod for Windows to output at that rate.
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post #10 of 22 Old 01-13-2013, 12:26 AM
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I thought I read somewhere that USB in Windows can't output at 24/192, that's why most all USB DACs are at 24/96. The ones that can do USB 24/192 require some type of special software/driver/mod for Windows to output at that rate.

Yes. That is correct for native support. A 3rd party driver has to be installed for Class 2 support. I've done more research on the Parasound and Emotiva DAC and Emotiva uses one generation newer DACs than the Parasound ZDac. They also include the Class 2 driver needed for Windows support. Main thing is that I'd rather have something that has the hardware that CAN do it rather than something that cannot. I just don't like the SIZE of the Emotiva XDA-2. Not sure why Emotiva would use a DAC that is capable of SACD support, but it probably comes down to wanting other features in that particular chip, like increased fidelity. I did download a DSD of a hi-fi audio sample, so pushing a DSD to the DAC would need SACD support.

I'm actually only planning on using TosLink but, again, it will be there if I change my mind.

I took a look at the AKM DAC that is used in the Audioengine D1 and it supports DSD as well. There is nothing about a 24/96 limit in USB so maybe it is because of the TI1020B USB controller they are using. The Parasound uses the same TI chip. Emotiva doesn't state what USB controller they use. Yep. Just confirmed the TI1020B is not capable of Class 2 audio. I'll guess I'll look into what Emotiva uses tomorrow.

Took a peek at the driver at Emotiva. The XDA-2 uses a C-Media USB controller ( CM6631A ) capable of 32/192 Class 2 USB Audio. 32-bit resolution. 2-channel only with maximum 3 playback and capture streams.

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post #11 of 22 Old 01-13-2013, 06:38 AM
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If you connect computer to the receiver I suggest using a toslink cable. I used an RCA mini a long time ago and got a ground loop hum (which may or may not have been more a function of the power in my apt.). A toslink connection got rid of that.
At this point I'm thinking of going one of these paths:
1) Audioengine 5+ speakers with Audioengine D1 DAC using Toslink optical cable from my Sound Blaster card's front drive bay (as there isn't an optical on the rear of the card).
2) B&W 686 speakers with Onkyo A-9050 integrated AMP, since it has a DAC built-in, still using the Toslink from the sound card.

Option 1 would run around $570, while Option 2 would be around $980.
I'm not sure which would sound better, but I like idea more of option 2 since its keeping the amp and speakers separate, so if there's ever an issue, they could be changed-out independently.
But with the 1st option the amp is built in the speakers (like my current JBL Media 3), and if something goes out, they all have to be replaced.

Beating the performance of your existing Audigy 2 ZS Platinum card is a non-trivial project. In general DAC upgrades tend to be futile, but because this card has such high performance despite its age, this is darn near mission impossible.

A far better approach would be to work on the loudspeaker end of the system. I don't see the B&W speakers as being that much of an upgrade.
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post #12 of 22 Old 01-13-2013, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Beating the performance of your existing Audigy 2 ZS Platinum card is a non-trivial project. In general DAC upgrades tend to be futile, but because this card has such high performance despite its age, this is darn near mission impossible.

A far better approach would be to work on the loudspeaker end of the system. I don't see the B&W speakers as being that much of an upgrade.
Then which bookshelf speakers would you say are better than the B&W 686 (or used CM1) paired with an Onkyo A-9050 integrated amp?
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post #13 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 05:20 AM
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Beating the performance of your existing Audigy 2 ZS Platinum card is a non-trivial project. In general DAC upgrades tend to be futile, but because this card has such high performance despite its age, this is darn near mission impossible.

A far better approach would be to work on the loudspeaker end of the system. I don't see the B&W speakers as being that much of an upgrade.
Then which bookshelf speakers would you say are better than the B&W 686 (or used CM1) paired with an Onkyo A-9050 integrated amp?

Just about anything with a decent-sized woofer.

By now you should have read enough of my posts to know that I have little patience with stereo integrated amps except as working antiques or stopgap measures.
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 06:50 PM
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Then which bookshelf speakers would you say are better than the B&W 686 (or used CM1) paired with an Onkyo A-9050 integrated amp?

I still think a set of powered speakers coming right out of your Audigy would be the cheapest and easiest solution. I'm extremely happy with my Airmotiv 5's.

The only reason why I'm going with a DAC is because my mini-PC doesn't have room for a dedicated sound card. I chose to put in a BIG video card that blocks the only PCIe 1x slot. I also have several computers and having a DAC with multiple inputs allows me to both improve the integrated audio quality and connect more than one machine. I have two machines with optical digital outputs and one without, so the Emotiva DAC works for me.

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post #15 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I still think a set of powered speakers coming right out of your Audigy would be the cheapest and easiest solution. I'm extremely happy with my Airmotiv 5's.

The only reason why I'm going with a DAC is because my mini-PC doesn't have room for a dedicated sound card. I chose to put in a BIG video card that blocks the only PCIe 1x slot. I also have several computers and having a DAC with multiple inputs allows me to both improve the integrated audio quality and connect more than one machine. I have two machines with optical digital outputs and one without, so the Emotiva DAC works for me.
My only issue with that is there's no headphone output on those Airmotivs. I would have that port (and sub out) with the Onkyo A-9050 amp.
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post #16 of 22 Old 01-15-2013, 04:42 AM
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Then which bookshelf speakers would you say are better than the B&W 686 (or used CM1) paired with an Onkyo A-9050 integrated amp?

I still think a set of powered speakers coming right out of your Audigy would be the cheapest and easiest solution. I'm extremely happy with my Airmotiv 5's.

The only reason why I'm going with a DAC is because my mini-PC doesn't have room for a dedicated sound card. I chose to put in a BIG video card that blocks the only PCIe 1x slot. I also have several computers and having a DAC with multiple inputs allows me to both improve the integrated audio quality and connect more than one machine. I have two machines with optical digital outputs and one without, so the Emotiva DAC works for me.

Doesn't that big dedicated video card have HDMI output(s)?

HDMI = digital video + digital audio.
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post #17 of 22 Old 01-15-2013, 04:47 AM
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I still think a set of powered speakers coming right out of your Audigy would be the cheapest and easiest solution. I'm extremely happy with my Airmotiv 5's.

The only reason why I'm going with a DAC is because my mini-PC doesn't have room for a dedicated sound card. I chose to put in a BIG video card that blocks the only PCIe 1x slot. I also have several computers and having a DAC with multiple inputs allows me to both improve the integrated audio quality and connect more than one machine. I have two machines with optical digital outputs and one without, so the Emotiva DAC works for me.
My only issue with that is there's no headphone output on those Airmotivs. I would have that port (and sub out) with the Onkyo A-9050 amp.

You can always put a Y cable on the 3.5 mm jack coming out of a PC and put an inexpensive headphone amp (Fiio E5 for example) on one of the legs of the Y cable.

http://www.amazon.com/Protronix%C2%AE-Stereo-Headphone-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B005IXK6WQ



http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-e5-E5-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B001P9EQH8

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Doesn't that big dedicated video card have HDMI output(s)?

HDMI = digital video + digital audio.

Yes. They do. The 560ti has a regular HDMI, the 580's have HDMI-B ( MHL ), and the 670 FTW has HDMI. I'm net-connected to my Oppo in the main room for playing media off the hard drives. I'm strictly sticking with 2.1 in the computer room with as small a DAC package as I can get that supports USB Audio Class 2. I don't do any video beyond YouTube in the computer room. I can launch torrents from the main room. I could theoretically get a refurbished Denon AVR-2313ci and connect all three PCs to it and output to the monitor while preamp out to the powered monitors. That is something I've been considering as well since the Emotiva XDA-2 is not much smaller and would be sitting on the floor vertically. All I would really need is the Emotiva UMC-200, which is the same $600 as the Denon but comes with a 25% discount card for a future preamp.

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post #19 of 22 Old 01-16-2013, 05:17 AM
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Doesn't that big dedicated video card have HDMI output(s)?

HDMI = digital video + digital audio.

Yes. They do. The 560ti has a regular HDMI, the 580's have HDMI-B ( MHL ), and the 670 FTW has HDMI. I'm net-connected to my Oppo in the main room for playing media off the hard drives. I'm strictly sticking with 2.1 in the computer room with as small a DAC package as I can get that supports USB Audio Class 2. I don't do any video beyond YouTube in the computer room. I can launch torrents from the main room. I could theoretically get a refurbished Denon AVR-2313ci and connect all three PCs to it and output to the monitor while preamp out to the powered monitors. That is something I've been considering as well since the Emotiva XDA-2 is not much smaller and would be sitting on the floor vertically. All I would really need is the Emotiva UMC-200, which is the same $600 as the Denon but comes with a 25% discount card for a future preamp.

Yeah, but the UMC-200 has no power amps, so it is hardly an apples-to-apples comparison at the same price.

Also, EmoQ room correction seems like mystery meat compared to something with a big user base and lots of positive feedback like say Audyssey Multieq XT32.

On balance I have to give Emotiva points for trying to be more competitive with the UMC-200. Trouble is, it remains vaporware. Thus it is guaranteed to have no faults! ;-)
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post #20 of 22 Old 01-16-2013, 09:31 AM
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Yeah, but the UMC-200 has no power amps, so it is hardly an apples-to-apples comparison at the same price.

Also, EmoQ room correction seems like mystery meat compared to something with a big user base and lots of positive feedback like say Audyssey Multieq XT32.

On balance I have to give Emotiva points for trying to be more competitive with the UMC-200. Trouble is, it remains vaporware. Thus it is guaranteed to have no faults! ;-)

I'm just going to have powered monitors in this room because of space limitations. That is the only thing I don't like about Emotiva. They have a poor track record as far as processors and preamps go. I just don't have room for a big AVR like the 2313. The folks on the Emotiva boards are steering me towards a DAC anyway for audio only.

Supposedly EmoQ 2 is better if you can believe the sales folks at Emotiva. I'm in no real hurry anyway since audio straight out of the PC works fine. UMC-500 is supposed to be right around the corner.

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post #21 of 22 Old 01-23-2013, 01:53 AM - Thread Starter
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You can always put a Y cable on the 3.5 mm jack coming out of a PC and put an inexpensive headphone amp (Fiio E5 for example) on one of the legs of the Y cable.

http://www.amazon.com/Protronix%C2%AE-Stereo-Headphone-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B005IXK6WQ

http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-e5-E5-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B001P9EQH8
That is one option.
I still wish the Audioengins had a headphone out on them, instead of having to use a separate Y splitter and headphone amp.
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post #22 of 22 Old 01-23-2013, 06:28 PM
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That is one option.
I still wish the Audioengins had a headphone out on them, instead of having to use a separate Y splitter and headphone amp.
Why don't you just run a mini cable up to your desk then a mini to RCA to the monitors, unplug it and plug headphones in?

Idk how good your sound card is, you could get a DAC like the HTR music streamer or Schiit modi

For monitors I'd go with the KRK rockit 6 or 8's, I think the Audioengines are over priced, the A5's had a lot of cool features but they ditched all of them with the 5+, you can get 6" speakers for the same price or 8" speakers for a little more, although the 8's are the size of small microwaves lol.
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