How do cheaper turntables sound compared to more expensive Rega and Music Hall turntables? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 42 Old 01-05-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

dc because some dealers at stores and dealers on craigslist don't like me I would rather not put where I am from. i may tell you in a pm. i am going to find a way to report the dealer on craigslist who keeps flagging my ads. it has to be him.

Are you putting out a "I want a turntable" ad? if so, that is the wrong way to play it! Just kick back and check them each day, see what turntables pop up.

For example, in my area, this popped up:
http://reno.craigslist.org/ele/3513209203.html

A nice looking DUAL turntable for $160, comes with a SHure V15 IV. Hell, the cartridge alone might be worth that. If my significant other wouldn't protest, I'd be there today to inspect and maybe purchase.
Just bide your time, just wait.
Another possible option is to buy a good old cheapo until you find one better. I am pretty fond of the old Technics SLb2 or SLD2 tables from the '80s, for a cheap table, they perform well. I picked one up with a good cartridge for $60, my daughter uses it now in her bedroom, but I would rather use that than a MH table. Sometimes you can find them for less.

As for sound quality, with turntables, there comes a point where the sound doesn't necessarily get better, it just gets more to you liking. There are are ample ways to add ear pleasing distortions with a turntable. For example, my pl41 sounds more lively than my technics 1200 (which some say sounds "sterile", but that is because the tone arm on the pl41 introduces its own echo like sound (microphonics?)
You can get some great sounding used tables for under $200. If you need a cartridge, there are some great affordable cartridges (my fave is a the Denon 110 mc) . Just keep in mind that you need a preamp and whatever cart you buy should match the mass of the tonearm.
As people have been returning back to vinyl, the best deals seem to have disappeared. The days of finding a top of the line Marantz table for $15 seem to be over.
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post #32 of 42 Old 01-05-2013, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Dc clark I didnt post a wanted turntable on Craigslist yet. I mean in general whatever name brand I want the dealers flag it in minutes and my ads dissapear. I wrote once wanted creek integrated amp. 15 minutes later it was removed. I might buy a cheap older turntable like you said for now until I can afford better. I thought about buying another amp for another room do if I buy a cheap turntable then I
Can buy a better amp. I hope to demo some turntables sometime to see if it impresses me enough for 500 and up. Sometimes cheaper older stuff sounds okay to me. Did Jvc make good turntables? I saw a older used Jvc on Craigslist for 25 bucks. Will the older record players work
Good with my new Nad? If not would it be okay for my fisher receiver that i got for 13 bucks at goodwill two days ago? I always hear from people that fisher is pretty good.
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post #33 of 42 Old 01-05-2013, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Dc do older receivers like the fisher have good phono stages or the ones that you buy would be much better? If I get a turntable and it sounds okay on the older receiver then I can get the phono pre amp later on for my Nad 326bee while using the fisher temporarily with the record player.
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post #34 of 42 Old 01-06-2013, 05:59 AM
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I think it's really tough to get it right the first time no matter how much you research and spend.

Personally I've swapped out a bunch of lower priced TT's, both new and used, and a number of carts. I wont name bash as it isn't my style, but there are companies that make "budget audiophile" TT's and components that are not very good at all. Especially vs some older products.

However, this is not true in every case, and there are a lot of companies that have may have made both really good stuff and also a ton of garbage too.

I will however take a chance here in hopes to get you started. Get yourself a used Technics SL-1xxx direct drive TT. These are typically well built machines with very stable speed control, with platters that do not wobble. I have found that after running the gambit on "budget" TTs and a bunch of used, that these are nice. I'm using an SL-1800 which has been superior to tables I've spend $100's of dollars on.

Buying used has its challenges. Craigslist is a source for cheaper prices but its a place to dump crap too. At least eBay comes with dealers who commit to having a good reputation.

At least if you do wind up getting a good Technics SL-1xxxx, it'll be a good all around table that you can compare too. So if you decide to upgrade and toss a bunch of money at something new ( that you can return) you'll have a good reference point.
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post #35 of 42 Old 01-06-2013, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

Dc do older receivers like the fisher have good phono stages or the ones that you buy would be much better? If I get a turntable and it sounds okay on the older receiver then I can get the phono pre amp later on for my Nad 326bee while using the fisher temporarily with the record player.

A modern SS preamp from a quality manufacturer like NAD is probably the better bet for clean SQ.
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post #36 of 42 Old 01-07-2013, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I heard music hall usb turntable and seemed happy with it today. I am going to buy it in a few days. i like how it already has a built in pre amp.
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post #37 of 42 Old 01-07-2013, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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do any of you own the music hall usb turntable? if so do you like it? has it been reliable for you?
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post #38 of 42 Old 01-07-2013, 09:43 PM
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http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PS-LX250H-Automatic-Belt-Drive-Turntable/dp/B00005T3XH/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1357179120&sr=8-18&keywords=turntable+direct+drive
I have read on a few forums that some people say to buy a used good turntable from the 80s. They say to make sure that is made in Japan for good quality. Are the older turntables much better then the new stuff?

I don't know if this will help any, but the newer turntables seem to be belt drive. The problem with belt drives is that the belt wears down after a while and needs replacement. The advantage was that they were quiet. Some of the ones from the 80's were direct drive turntables. They operated without belts and had one motor turning the platter. Those had the advantage of not having a belt to wear down and was accurate but audio buffs didn't like them because they could be noisy (motor noise I guess). One last type was the linear turntable where the arm that holds the needle was parallel to the record thus having zero error. It could play a record while the player was vertical. B&O had a record player like that.

I personally use a Sony semi-automatic (needle lifts only at the end of the record) direct drive turntable I purchased in the 80's for $129. It has a variable speed knob with a strobe that tells if the record is running fast, slow, or just right (just like Technics DJ turntables today). It still works today many, many decades later and is still accurate and sounds great.

If you're in the market for a turntable I would get a direct drive semi-automatic with a strobe to check the speed. The only turntables made today that I've seen are belt driven USB types unless you're an audiophile, then they're the mega-thousand dollar pieces of art where the arm alone costs more than some people's entire stereo system.
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post #39 of 42 Old 01-07-2013, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the tips Nathan. I brought in a sony turntable from the 70s or 80s that I got from salvation army to see if it worked good. I don't know much about turntables. it turns out my needle stylus and other parts were pretty worn out and no weight thing on the turntable. the worker thought that it would take 75 bucks to fix the old sony and may be hard finding that weight thing on the turntable that was missing. That is when I found out what the cheapest player that they had was, but would still be good. I thought about the more expensive rega or 500 buck music hall, but this sounded decent to me for a beginner upgrade turntable. most of my older turntables were all in one old systems.
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post #40 of 42 Old 01-08-2013, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathantw View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PS-LX250H-Automatic-Belt-Drive-Turntable/dp/B00005T3XH/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1357179120&sr=8-18&keywords=turntable+direct+drive
I have read on a few forums that some people say to buy a used good turntable from the 80s. They say to make sure that is made in Japan for good quality. Are the older turntables much better then the new stuff?

I don't know if this will help any, but the newer turntables seem to be belt drive.

They are actually a mixture of belt and direct drive. What seems to (happily) disappeared are the idler wheel drive products that had a number of inherent problems.
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The problem with belt drives is that the belt wears down after a while and needs replacement.

I don't think I've ever seen a worn TT belt in the 58 or so years that I've been involved with vinyl playback. What I have seen is stretched and brittle belts, but since the 70s it usually takes several decades for any of that to happen to a well-made belt. Being used heavily may even help ****** that sort of thing.
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The advantage was that they were quiet.

The noise in turntable does not come from the belt. It comes from the drive motor and the main bearing of the turntable. The drive motor's rotational speed, the quality of its bearings and the balancing of its parts are the main issues. For the longest time turntables had motors that rotated at either 3600 or 1800 rpm. The frequency of noise due to primary imbalance is then 60 or 30 Hz, both of which (especially 60 Hz) are reproduced well by good audio systems. Bad news. In the 60s relatively inexpensive motors with other desirable characteristics that rotated at 600 or less rpm became readily available. The frequency of noise due to primary imbalance of a 300 rpm motor is 5 Hz which few audio systems respond to with appreciable vigor.
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Some of the ones from the 80's were direct drive turntables. They operated without belts and had one motor turning the platter. Those had the advantage of not having a belt to wear down and were accurate but audio buffs didn't like them because they could be noisy (motor noise I guess).

Turntables that spin slowly do so partially because whatever motor system they may have, the motor has to have a large number of poles or internal electromagnets. In a direct drive turntable the motor is directly coupled to the turntable with no isolation at all. A drive belt functions as a mechanical isolator, and a pretty effective one.
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One last type was the linear turntable where the arm that holds the needle was parallel to the record thus having zero error. It could play a record while the player was vertical. B&O had a record player like that.

Now you are switching horses without telling us. Linear tracking relates to the tone arm, not the turntable platter. You can have a wide variety of types of tone arms that you mix and match with any of the dffferent kinds of turntables we've been talking about. You can have a linear tracking tone arm with either a belt, direct or even idler drive.

Playing a record when the turntable is in an arbitrary orientation is a matter of tone arm balancing methodology, not whether it is a linear tracking turntable. There have long been traditional bent-arm turntables that could track a record well in any orientation including upside down or on its side. There are linear trackers that can't do this. The difference relates to some internal details of tone arm balancing and how the tracking force is applied.
Quote:
I personally use a Sony semi-automatic (needle lifts only at the end of the record) direct drive turntable I purchased in the 80's for $129. It has a variable speed knob with a strobe that tells if the record is running fast, slow, or just right (just like Technics DJ turntables today). It still works today many, many decades later and is still accurate and sounds great.

If you're in the market for a turntable I would get a direct drive semi-automatic with a strobe to check the speed. The only turntables made today that I've seen are belt driven USB types unless you're an audiophile, then they're the mega-thousand dollar pieces of art where the arm alone costs more than some people's entire stereo system.

Naah, some of the modern belt drive turntables with far better quality than the ca. $100 cheapies can be had for just a few $100 more. Rega and Music Hall have good options in this price range, but so do others like Audio Technica and Technics. IMO just about every actually useful technical refinement to the turntable art can be implemented for well under $1,000. After that, its all about audio jewelry.
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post #41 of 42 Old 01-09-2013, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought the music hall $250.00 usb turntable today
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post #42 of 42 Old 01-12-2013, 12:58 PM
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I'm new here just went through some of the posts , have & know a little bit about turntables I own a Thorens TD 146
with a grado F-1 needle? I think the needle was 95-$150, the TT cost me about $400 in the 80's it's still pristine perfect & Yes it makes a very big deal
the TT needle & the Pre it goes to!!
I bought this TT to play the very RARE & expensive DBX Encoded Discs I have Collected.
I would do my best to help in any way. E me on how you think your table sound next to CD's
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