First 2 channel amp $500ish - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 01-18-2013, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to get a pair of Warfedale Diamond 10.2's for a really good deal and I want to make my own little hi-fi but what do I amp them with?

I was looking at integrated amps and I like the Marantz PM5004 but what other options are there? I want something that is a good value, I know a lot about headphone amps and home theater receivers but not 2 channel stuff. For a headphone amp I'm going to get the Schit audio Asgard, $250 great value sounds better than a lot of $500 stuff and made in the USA. For my 2.0 I want something similar, it doesn't have to be US made but something of a similar value.

With head phone amps there are desecrate, single ended, op amps, tube amps, hybrid tube amps... all the 2 channel integrated amps I'm fining are just big black boxes and I'm kind of confused, if it has a DAC with digital inputs that would be cool too.
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post #2 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 03:37 AM
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fwiw, save yourself some money denon avr1712 $309 at accessories4less has multeq xt audyssey digital imputs and a 2 ch direct/stereo menu

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #3 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 03:44 AM
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I'll second the avr recommendation. I use a denon 3311ci in a 2 channel setup and i am quite happy with it. It provides a lot of features you won't get in a two channel amp.

You also might get that and try the headphone jack connection from the avr. Just for kicks you may decide that it suffices. (I don't know the cans you are driving).
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post #4 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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So you guys think I should get a whole 7 channel AVR? I have a home theater set up but I have been listening to music threw RCA's to my studio monitors and not what I can get these Diamond 10.2's for cheap I want to make my self my first hi-fi.
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post #5 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 08:52 AM
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If you check in the Classifieds, I have a good deal on my NAD C325BEE integrated amplifier; Only $225.

It has a built-in headphone amplifier, so you don't need to buy a separate one. The headphone jack is on the front panel.

You can do an online search for that model and it will take you to the NAD page where the specs and features and a photo are located.

Send me a PM if interested.
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post #6 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

fwiw, save yourself some money denon avr1712 $309 at accessories4less has multeq xt audyssey digital imputs and a 2 ch direct/stereo menu
Is accessories4less reputable? They had the PM5004 for $350 instead of $450 but it was out of stock and there website looked getho?
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post #7 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 09:18 AM
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They seem to sell "gray-market" goods and if I am correct they usually provide no warranty (or some worthless 3rd-party warranty).

I don't buy unless they can be confirmed as an AUTHORIZED DEALER by a phone call to the manufacturer, and provide a ful warranty from the manufacturer.

It's not the kind of company I would do business with, but that's your call...lol.
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post #8 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

They seem to sell "gray-market" goods and if I am correct they usually provide no warranty (or some worthless 3rd-party warranty).

I don't buy unless they can be confirmed as an AUTHORIZED DEALER by a phone call to the manufacturer, and provide a ful warranty from the manufacturer.

Is their home page an out-and-out lie?

http://www.accessories4less.com/

On it they claim to be authorized dealers for Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Boston Acoustics, Teac, Cambridge, KEF, Focal, Mordant-Short, Etherial, Sherwood/Newcastle, Ixos, and Acoustic Research.
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post #9 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 10:28 AM
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If your speakers are reasonably efficient and you only use digital sources, check out this amp:

http://www.nuforce.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=306:dda-100&Itemid=370

This amp is incredibly small compared to most amps. It also functions as a DAC. Mine will drive a pair of Golden Ear Triton 2's well beyond my comfort level.

MIKE

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
--H. L. Mencken
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post #10 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

They seem to sell "gray-market" goods and if I am correct they usually provide no warranty (or some worthless 3rd-party warranty).

I don't buy unless they can be confirmed as an AUTHORIZED DEALER by a phone call to the manufacturer, and provide a ful warranty from the manufacturer.

It's not the kind of company I would do business with, but that's your call...lol.

Accessories4less is an authorized dealer of Denon factory reconditioned products.

http://usa.denon.com/us/wheretobuy/pages/onlineetailers.aspx
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post #11 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post

So you guys think I should get a whole 7 channel AVR? I have a home theater set up but I have been listening to music threw RCA's to my studio monitors and not what I can get these Diamond 10.2's for cheap I want to make my self my first hi-fi.

An AVR will be fine. You just use two channels of it. Run audyssey and it will automatically behave like a 2 channel reciever.

You might can find a better deal though then the reconditioned from accessories4less.
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post #12 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 12:52 PM
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1713 new from amazon is 449. I'd probably go that route instead of the 1712 refurb.

It has features you won't find in a 2 channel integrated. Network capable, stream from itunes (airplay), play from ipod via usb, or play flac, wav from usb. Internet radio as wel.
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post #13 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 01:19 PM
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fwiw, i purchased a denon avr791 from ac4l about 2 years ago and have had no problems and saved me over $150, to where i put the money towards the most inportant part of the system, the speakers. i also have a refurbished harmon kardon avr354 that i've had for 4 years and had no problems and saved over $200 . the problem i have is with new onkyo avrs. could be just coincidence but the two i purchaced in the recent years and the one my dad purchaced and returned all had problems with the hdmi ports not working. three stirkes and your out for me

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #14 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mraub View Post

If your speakers are reasonably efficient and you only use digital sources, check out this amp:

http://www.nuforce.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=306:dda-100&Itemid=370

This amp is incredibly small compared to most amps. It also functions as a DAC. Mine will drive a pair of Golden Ear Triton 2's well beyond my comfort level.
Really? aren't those like big tower speakers, right now I have the Pioneer 51 speakers and a set of Warfedale Diamond 10.2's I just got for $275 brand new open box from a dealer here.

I'm planing on using it with my computer and eventually getting something like the Marantz CD5004 CD player to go with it, if it is analog only I with use a USB DAC if it does have D/A conversion I would like to be able to connect a USB drive or hard drive to play lossless files from.
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post #15 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

fwiw, i purchased a denon avr791 from ac4l about 2 years ago and have had no problems and saved me over $150, to where i put the money towards the most inportant part of the system, the speakers. i also have a refurbished harmon kardon avr354 that i've had for 4 years and had no problems and saved over $200 . the problem i have is with new onkyo avrs. could be just coincidence but the two i purchaced in the recent years and the one my dad purchaced and returned all had problems with the hdmi ports not working. three stirkes and your out for me
Really your 354 works perfectly? You lucky dog haha
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post #16 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 01:34 PM
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to be perfectly honest i have had not one glitch or trouble from it since i bought it. also never downloaded any new software from hk.works great

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #17 of 29 Old 01-19-2013, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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to be perfectly honest i have had not one glitch or trouble from it since i bought it. also never downloaded any new software from hk.works great
Mine always goes to MC PCM with my Xbox and I have to turn my xbox off and back on to get it to dolby and sometimes when I turn it on I wont get a picture and need to turn the avr on and off.
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post #18 of 29 Old 01-20-2013, 09:17 AM
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They are floor-standers, but have built-in amps to power the woofers. The Nuforce is powering the midranges and tweeter.
Quote:
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Really? aren't those like big tower speakers,

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post #19 of 29 Old 01-20-2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post

Is accessories4less reputable? They had the PM5004 for $350 instead of $450 but it was out of stock and there website looked getho?
Don't listen to commsyman (conman), accessories4less is a legit site and authorized Denon, Marantz and Onkyo dealer and you get the manufacturer warranty when you buy from them.
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post #20 of 29 Old 01-20-2013, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mraub View Post

They are floor-standers, but have built-in amps to power the woofers. The Nuforce is powering the midranges and tweeter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post

Really? aren't those like big tower speakers,

They are 90 dB/W speakers - a little bit more efficient than usual.

The idea that large speakers take lots of power is an audiophile myth. If anything the reverse is true - larger speakers tend to be more efficient and terefore take less power.

Not that the Nuforce is lacking power for use with average or even somewhat inefficient speakers.

Where do you get the line output for the LFE inputs from?
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post #21 of 29 Old 01-21-2013, 01:57 PM
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I also bought a Denon 1913 From this site Accessorie4 on the reccs I recieved here & I'm extremely happy with it& the price.
I also ordered the Emotiva dig pre & the 150wpcnl. &&& They Honored the Discount!!!!
I have been waiting for money from Paypal & the second I got it I ordered, so this site & the people here pretty reliable.
just my 2cents.
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post #22 of 29 Old 01-21-2013, 03:39 PM
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a4l is legit - ive done purchases and 2 RMAs with them - no issues

REW...most expensive freeware ever...

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post #23 of 29 Old 01-22-2013, 12:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post

Really? aren't those like big tower speakers, right now I have the Pioneer 51 speakers and a set of Warfedale Diamond 10.2's I just got for $275 brand new open box from a dealer here.

I'm planing on using it with my computer and eventually getting something like the Marantz CD5004 CD player to go with it, if it is analog only I with use a USB DAC if it does have D/A conversion I would like to be able to connect a USB drive or hard drive to play lossless files from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mraub View Post

They are floor-standers, but have built-in amps to power the woofers. The Nuforce is powering the midranges and tweeter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

They are 90 dB/W speakers - a little bit more efficient than usual.

The idea that large speakers take lots of power is an audiophile myth. If anything the reverse is true - larger speakers tend to be more efficient and terefore take less power.

Not that the Nuforce is lacking power for use with average or even somewhat inefficient speakers.

Where do you get the line output for the LFE inputs from?
Gosh I should of posted earlier, I forgot they had power subs so yeah

Anyway I'm now looking at the Marantz PM6004, Yamaha A-S500 and competition or a Anthem i225 I can get a deal on locally. I would like to get the PM6004 and pair it with the CD6004 or SA8004, the CD6004 has a USB input for thumb drives and iPod which I think is really cool but wont play SACD's like the SA8004, then the CD8004 has computer inputs and plays SACD's! but its double the price of the 6004 at $1000!!!!! That makes me think that I should just go with a Bluray player like the Oppo or Pioneer Elite or something that plays every thing and should have just as good of D/A conversion.

The only problem I see is that I will want to use the Players D/A conversion with my Integrated amp and may or may not want to with my Receiver and I'm not sure how that will work out? If I use the players with that disable a lot of my receivers functions? will HDMI still work or would I have to go with 7 separate analog outs?

The other problem I have is that I wanted this to sort of be a second room thing and going with the Bluray route wouldn't really work because I would want it for my player. I don't really need the bells and whistles of the SA8004 as I could just use a USB DAC out from my computer into the CD6004 but thought it was cool that it was all in 1.

All this started from me getting the Wharfedale 10.2's and wanting an amp for them and them liking the PM/CD5004 combo... Maybe I should just get the PM/CD6004 combo and live with it?
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post #24 of 29 Old 01-23-2013, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok lets just keep this to amps I'm just wondering if the DAC in the SA8004 or something like the pioneer SC-86 would be better than a $2-300 USB DAC?

I really wanna get the Anthem but I like that the Marantz CD players and amps mesh up.
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post #25 of 29 Old 01-23-2013, 07:00 PM
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Ok lets just keep this to amps I'm just wondering if the DAC in the SA8004 or something like the pioneer SC-86 would be better than a $2-300 USB DAC?
If by "better" you mean "sound better," the answer is almost certainly no. Even really cheap DACs are audibly transparent these days, meaning they will sound the same under properly controlled conditions.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #26 of 29 Old 01-25-2013, 12:39 AM - Thread Starter
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What Integrated amps have DAC's and digital inputs? Also what ones have subwoofer outs? Preferable with a good variable crossover.

I was looking at the HK 990 but thats to much money.
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post #27 of 29 Old 01-25-2013, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post

What Integrated amps have DAC's and digital inputs? Also what ones have subwoofer outs? Preferable with a good variable crossover.

I was looking at the HK 990 but thats to much money.

If you set against an avr and want HK, the 3490. Its not an integrated,but a more classic stereo reciever.
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post #28 of 29 Old 01-25-2013, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
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Anyway I'm now looking at the Marantz PM6004, Yamaha A-S500 and competition or a Anthem i225 I can get a deal on locally. I would like to get the PM6004 and pair it with the CD6004 or SA8004, the CD6004 has a USB input for thumb drives and iPod which I think is really cool but wont play SACD's like the SA8004, then the CD8004 has computer inputs and plays SACD's! but its double the price of the 6004 at $1000!!!!! That makes me think that I should just go with a Bluray player like the Oppo or Pioneer Elite or something that plays every thing and should have just as good of D/A conversion.

The only problem I see is that I will want to use the Players D/A conversion with my Integrated amp and may or may not want to with my Receiver and I'm not sure how that will work out?

Why use the converters in the player when the AVR has perfectly good converters that you are relying on most of the time, anyhow?
Quote:
If I use the players with that disable a lot of my receivers functions?

Yes. Using the multichannel analog inputs of an AVR that even has them any more, generally bypasses the AVR's DSP. It kicks the AVR back about 6 years or more technology-wise. The AVR's DSP(s) implement the following:

(1) AVR Bass Management
(2) AVR Automated system tuning facility - Audyssey, MCACC or YPAO.
(3) The varied and sundry codecs and decoders that are used to decode surround recordings.
Quote:
will HDMI still work or would I have to go with 7 separate analog outs?

HDMI is digital audio and using it bypasses the converters in the digital player.
Quote:
The other problem I have is that I wanted this to sort of be a second room thing and going with the Bluray route wouldn't really work because I would want it for my player. I don't really need the bells and whistles of the SA8004 as I could just use a USB DAC out from my computer into the CD6004 but thought it was cool that it was all in 1.

You have many options for digital audio output from your PC in addition to USB. They are HDMI, SP/DIF and TOSLINK. Any modern AVR supports them.
Quote:
All this started from me getting the Wharfedale 10.2's and wanting an amp for them and them liking the PM/CD5004 combo... Maybe I should just get the PM/CD6004 combo and live with it?

Could be. I don't think that living with the 6004 involves a lot of suffering! ;-)
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post #29 of 29 Old 01-26-2013, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Why use the converters in the player when the AVR has perfectly good converters that you are relying on most of the time, anyhow?
There most likely better than most AVR's and its USB, I don't have SP/DIF or TOSLINK on my laptop. I'm trying to avoid having a separate box like I do now with my E17.
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Yes. Using the multichannel analog inputs of an AVR that even has them any more, generally bypasses the AVR's DSP. It kicks the AVR back about 6 years or more technology-wise. The AVR's DSP(s) implement the following:

(1) AVR Bass Management
(2) AVR Automated system tuning facility - Audyssey, MCACC or YPAO.
(3) The varied and sundry codecs and decoders that are used to decode surround recordings.
HDMI is digital audio and using it bypasses the converters in the digital player.
ok I didn't know if analog could go over HDMI or not like with USB
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

You have many options for digital audio output from your PC in addition to USB. They are HDMI, SP/DIF and TOSLINK. Any modern AVR supports them.
Could be. I don't think that living with the 6004 involves a lot of suffering! ;-)
lol well it's just that it will bypass an ipod's dac but wont work with a PC like the SA8004 will. I'm really leaning to getting a display Anthem i225 for $1000 but that wont leave me any money to get a CD player but I can just keep using my Fiio E17 for now.
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