Say it isn't so Krell amps engaging, deep, articulate, but not real? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 03-05-2013, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1165433684&openflup&21&4#21

02-28-07: Jodus001
Had to post here, currently have a MF TriVista 300, have done many A/B's against Krell 400 xi, modded McCormack, and McIntosh MA6500. Perfect word, at least in my system - laid back. ULTRA laid-back. Absolutely wonderful, IMHO. Krell was engaging, deep, articulate, but not real. Mac was beautiful, smooth, but too boomy, again, not real. MF sounds exactly as the source sounds, at least my Tri-Vista. That's all I can ask.

12-09-06: Redoctober2
I love MF sound,but are they using cheap selecter & volume?
My ex MF amp, A1X,A100,A3 had these problem.sound "de de" when turning the selecter (it means bad contact).
And Now, I'm using NuVista M3 , Problem occur again.
I know the forum post is old, but does krell stuff really sound not real and musical fidelity amps using cheap knobs?
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post #2 of 27 Old 03-07-2013, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you all agree that Krell sounds not real and Artificial? What would you describe the sound of a krell? Is krell bright neutral laid back?
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post #3 of 27 Old 03-07-2013, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

Is krell bright neutral laid back?

Probably all three, depending on what speakers and/or the quality of the recorded song you plan on using with them. wink.gif
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post #4 of 27 Old 03-07-2013, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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good points speakers matter also. I agree with you.
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post #5 of 27 Old 03-07-2013, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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thumb do you like krell? do you use it? what amps you use?
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post #6 of 27 Old 03-07-2013, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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when you say quality of recording do you mean badly done remasters? I hear that when people remaster stuff a lot it sounds horrible.
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post #7 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

thumb do you like krell? do you use it? what amps you use?

I've only heard Krell once at a Tweeter store a few years ago. I don't recall hearing anything remarkable about it, but to be fair the room Tweeter had them in wasn't good at all.
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post #8 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 07:40 AM
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when you say quality of recording do you mean badly done remasters? I hear that when people remaster stuff a lot it sounds horrible.

Badly-done remasters can fall into that category, but there are good and bad recordings in every genre over the years. Not all modern mainstream remasters are bad, but I'm sure the record companies don't gear them towards guys like us who actually have good stereos and good speakers.
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post #9 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ThumbtackJack View Post

Badly-done remasters can fall into that category, but there are good and bad recordings in every genre over the years. Not all modern mainstream remasters are bad, but I'm sure the record companies don't gear them towards guys like us who actually have good stereos and good speakers.

Agreed. The newer Led Zeppelin Mothership set is a loudness war victim and sounds worse than the 20 year old Remasters box set. Meanwhile, the most recent releases of the first 7 Steely Dan albums are much better than the older Citizen Steely Dan set, and you can actually get all the individual albums for less total than the box set.

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post #10 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 08:16 AM
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The only Krell amp I've owned was a KAV-300i. It sounded pretty much the same as the other maps I've owned. Not worth the price they go for. IMO. I bough it used for a good price and sold it for what I paid.


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post #11 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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just curious stanley what speakers were you using it with at the time? thumb was tweeter center the hi fi store chain that went out of business? I hear that people said that it was overpriced and a shady company.
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post #12 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 04:40 PM
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thumb was tweeter center the hi fi store chain that went out of business? I hear that people said that it was overpriced and a shady company.

Yup, that's them. The store near me used to be called Bryn Mawr before changing its name to Tweeter.
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post #13 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I heard that tweeter center wasn't nice about returns even if it was defective and were like high pressure used car salesmen. Is this all true?
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post #14 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
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just curious stanley what speakers were you using it with at the time? thumb was tweeter center the hi fi store chain that went out of business? I hear that people said that it was overpriced and a shady company.

 

A few different speakers.  Vandersteen 2ce Signatures, Thiel 2.2's and JM Lab Cobalt 820's. Also a pair of DIY's that you're probably not familiar with.


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post #15 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Thiel is the speaker that a lot of people want but can't afford? I hear that Thiel can get pretty expensive. Do thiels have a lot of bass? I hear that they can be hard to drive speakers.
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post #16 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
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Thiel is the speaker that a lot of people want but can't afford? I hear that Thiel can get pretty expensive. Do thiels have a lot of bass? I hear that they can be hard to drive speakers.

 

 

Not that expensive. I bought them used. New speakers lose a lot of value once to take them out of them box and use them. I've bought most of the speakers I've owned used.

The Thiels I had weren't that hard to drive. I don't listen at high volumes.


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post #17 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought my energy veritas 6.2 speakers used from the dealer
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post #18 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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you are right Stanley I have seen great deals on used speakers/amps from dealers or even people on craigslist who upgraded to something better.
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post #19 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
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thumb when you said that the krell amp didn't sound remarkable do you agree with stanley that krell isn't worth the high asking price that they charge?
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post #20 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

I heard that tweeter center wasn't nice about returns even if it was defective and were like high pressure used car salesmen. Is this all true?
Not in my experience. I bought quite a bit of gear from a Tweeter in MA years ago, and I remember I bought one of the first pairs of KEF Uni-Q speakers. After 2 days, I brought them back with my ears bleeding and they exchanged them. I think for Polk LS-70's, which were a pretty decent speaker in their day.
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post #21 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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speaking of kef I don't see a lot of dealers that have them to hear. I had to go to new york city to hear them. the store only had one pair to hear. they were about 4 thousand.
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post #22 of 27 Old 07-07-2013, 08:00 PM
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Im a little late to this to this post.

I own a Krell Showcase 7.1 amp. I absolutely love it. It opens up the details. Paired with my Thiel Powerpoints, you hear things you didn't hear before. Sometime you have to wonder if it was the TV or really happening. Neither the amp or the speakers were a real budget buster. As you move up the ladder i believe you get to the point of diminishing returns.

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #23 of 27 Old 07-08-2013, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

Do you all agree that Krell sounds not real and Artificial?

The Krell amps I've listened to sounded pretty good - clean, smooth, and noise free. In short, nothing exceptional for a modern SS amplifier.
Quote:
What would you describe the sound of a krell? Is krell bright neutral laid back?

I don't think that Krell amps have a characteristic sound. They generally seem to sound neutral the way an amp should.
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post #24 of 27 Old 08-14-2013, 02:53 AM
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The Krell of yesteryears (D'Agostino's era) sounds different from the smoother post D'Agostino. The newer lacks the punch that Krell used to had.

I had owned KAV300i (gave to my bro), KAV300il (keeping it0, KAV400Xi (sold it) and KAV300Si (lousiest of all). So, it is easy comparing them in the same room using same pair of speakers (Audio Physic Tempo 25 and Triangle Genese Quartet). I also used to own KSL2 as well as KRC HR that is partnered with KSA-200. I had since sold off both pre and the power amp given to my bro.

The older gen particularly lacks the airiness and it sounds really dark but with very good details. The newer Krell has that airiness but it no longer have the Krell genetics in it. Also, it is very expensive for the new generation of Krell.

I have heard the Burmester 089 CDP, 035 pre and 911MK3 power amp that belongs to a good friend. I quite like it especially for its smoothness. Seriously considering it.

Bass, please. Shaken, not stirred.
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post #25 of 27 Old 08-14-2013, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
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thumb do you like krell? do you use it? what amps you use?

The above statement obfuscates reality.

Speakers matter far more than amplifiers.

Room acoustics and speaker placement can easily trump both.

One reason why mainstream audio publications don't publish more about the importance of room acoustics and speaker placement is that they haven't figured out how to make money off of them.

Krell amplifiers are generally very good - just overpriced, large and heavy compared to what is needed for the best sound quality.
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post #26 of 27 Old 08-14-2013, 05:38 AM
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The Krell of yesteryears (D'Agostino's era) sounds different from the smoother post D'Agostino. The newer lacks the punch that Krell used to had.

I had owned KAV300i (gave to my bro), KAV300il (keeping it0, KAV400Xi (sold it) and KAV300Si (lousiest of all). So, it is easy comparing them in the same room using same pair of speakers (Audio Physic Tempo 25 and Triangle Genese Quartet). I also used to own KSL2 as well as KRC HR that is partnered with KSA-200. I had since sold off both pre and the power amp given to my bro.

The older gen particularly lacks the airiness and it sounds really dark but with very good details. The newer Krell has that airiness but it no longer have the Krell genetics in it. Also, it is very expensive for the new generation of Krell.

I have heard the Burmester 089 CDP, 035 pre and 911MK3 power amp that belongs to a good friend. I quite like it especially for its smoothness. Seriously considering it.

Sighted evaluations, right?
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post #27 of 27 Old 08-15-2013, 01:45 AM
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Yes, it is. I have keeping all of it for more than a year. Since I cannot make use all of it, I have to sell off some.

It is not easy to choose which int amp to retain. So, I have to select the one that I like most and sell off the rest to make way for upgrade.

Bass, please. Shaken, not stirred.
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