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post #151 of 185 Old 09-30-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urapnes1 View Post

Just because they can be weeded out doesn't mean they do not exist. If your benchmark DAC is something tat retailed for less than $500, how do you know that the grass is not greener? Just saying, you could be missing out.

Yes but after testing DAC after DAC after DAC for years and years and finding no audible differences regardless of price or brand in any of them, we are in a strong position to state that DAC's don't affect recorded sound. If you can find one that is audibly different in a properly conducted bias controlled test, bring it on. We'll certainly change our tune. Problem is, that has never happened so your position is weaker.
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post #152 of 185 Old 09-30-2013, 04:23 PM
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The question that I answered was how can the same DAC chip sound different from one box to another. I answered it.

By your logic the spec sheets posted by manufacturer or 3rd party are the only things that matter and if all the numbers on the measured spec list are the same, then the two DACs MUST be the same. I disagree. There is a reason that Hollywood uses equipment from companies such as NAGRA...they are better all around units. The if a DAC does a crappy job, you are going to hear it. Standard tests may not be designed or detailed eough to highlight the nuances between 1 DAC and another. I seriously doubt that designers focus on THD and S/N figures only. I am not saying you have to agree with me (kinda doubt you will smile.gif ) but ask yourself if it is possible that the spec sheets that you use at a tool could be flawed due to marketing reasons or do not provide all of the measurements needed that a designer has access to? Has anyone asked the folks that design the state of the art DACs what the differences are? I am not talking about asking the sales guys, but lets see if we cannot figure out who a DAC guru might be and then ask them.

This is supposed to be a fun hobby isn't it? smile.gif

I love the quote (that I bolded) about Hollywood. Is Hollywood the name of some individual? Or are you saying that every single person who lives in Hollywood uses NAGRA? Or that every film studio in Hollywood uses NAGRA? eek.gif

As for the second part I bolded, in the designs I worked on, we tested many more things than THD and S/N. Those things included freq resp, dynamic range, low level linearity, thd vs freq, thd vs amplitude, IMD, and we'd do several FFTs of different signals. But in all my years I never came across a DAC where one of those was bad enough to make an audible issue.

For every new thing I learn, I forget two things I used to know.
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post #153 of 185 Old 09-30-2013, 06:12 PM
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I know most of you know how I feel about DACs and cables...so I will just sit this one out..and read..lol
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post #154 of 185 Old 09-30-2013, 06:53 PM
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I worked as video assist on the film "the Patriot". The sound man (same guy that did True Lies and Titanic) on first unit used a Nagra digital recorder for every scene. Check out nagra's own cite and you will see that they have a successful history with the film industry. I never meant that all of Hollywood uses their products. I should have been more clear. Here is the link to the nagra motion picture awards http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/informationAwards.php.
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post #155 of 185 Old 09-30-2013, 06:56 PM
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Here is a link to Lee Orloff's IMDB Profile. I have no idea what equipment he uses now.
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post #156 of 185 Old 09-30-2013, 06:56 PM
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post #157 of 185 Old 09-30-2013, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

I know most of you know how I feel about DACs and cables...so I will just sit this one out..and read..lol

Yes we know how you counter fact and science with feelings.
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post #158 of 185 Old 10-01-2013, 02:16 AM
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Off-topic alert!
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Originally Posted by urapnes1 View Post

. . . There is a reason that Hollywood uses equipment from companies such as NAGRA...they are better all around units. The if a DAC does a crappy job, you are going to hear it. . .
Having used Nagra for years, I would agree: they are better all around units for film production. I don't think that their ADCs and DACs are all that superior, but they are full of features that are geared to film production. Like time-code support and phase-locking to a 60Hz tone. Like running from 24 volt camera batteries. Like bulletproof reliability on location. These are the reasons Hollywood likes Nagras as much as they do.
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post #159 of 185 Old 10-01-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

I know most of you know how I feel about DACs and cables...so I will just sit this one out..and read..lol

Hopefully you will spend that time in technical study of DACs and their affect on sound quality so that you will be able to balance your feelings with actual reliable knowlege.
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post #160 of 185 Old 10-01-2013, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Hopefully you will spend that time in technical study of DACs and their affect on sound quality so that you will be able to balance your feelings with actual reliable knowlege.
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post #161 of 185 Old 10-01-2013, 05:06 PM
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Oh I sure have!
Five different DACs..three sounded slightly different from each other..critical listening required,two sounded absolutely incredible.. You can hear the claps in the background much better..very transparent.. Wide soundstage..etc.
I have done a lot of reading..I have done a lot of listening..
I tend to believe in what I hear and what I experience.. More than what I read.
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post #162 of 185 Old 10-01-2013, 06:16 PM
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No kidding.
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post #163 of 185 Old 10-01-2013, 06:19 PM
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Hey beave. No comments on my hysterical Hollywood nagra post and the supporting details I posted?
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post #164 of 185 Old 10-01-2013, 06:27 PM
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No comment needed. rolleyes.gif
Posts 154 and 158 covered the topic just fine, thank you.
Remember saying this: "I never meant that all of Hollywood uses their products. I should have been more clear?"

For every new thing I learn, I forget two things I used to know.
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post #165 of 185 Old 11-20-2013, 03:10 PM
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Hi, I'm new to this forum. I also just got an Exemplar modified Oppo 105 by choice. I have two other dacs. This modification is exceptional and I could have gotten the Exemplar Exception Dac, but preferred the Oppo. It has the 9618 Sabre chip (their latest). I will be using it to play my pro unit a raid system with a Mac Mini to play my DSD versions of SACDs, other HD files, and CDs. The modifications in this unit include a tube output and the use of Hitachi FineMet beads. It is only several days here and still changing for the better, but I'm confident that it is the best dac, I could have bought.

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post #166 of 185 Old 11-21-2013, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm1 View Post

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I also just got an Exemplar modified Oppo 105 by choice. I have two other dacs. This modification is exceptional and I could have gotten the Exemplar Exception Dac, but preferred the Oppo. It has the 9618 Sabre chip (their latest). I will be using it to play my pro unit a raid system with a Mac Mini to play my DSD versions of SACDs, other HD files, and CDs. The modifications in this unit include a tube output and the use of Hitachi FineMet beads. It is only several days here and still changing for the better, but I'm confident that it is the best dac, I could have bought.

I'm confident that some proper listening tests would have a strong emotional effect on you! ;-)
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post #167 of 185 Old 11-21-2013, 11:08 AM
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I'm confident that some proper listening tests would have a strong emotional effect on you! ;-)

That is an understatement.
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post #168 of 185 Old 02-04-2014, 10:13 AM
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I've looked at most comments on the Oppo 105. Does the Oppo 105 output digital as opposed to analog, say to AVR, or does it only output analog?
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post #169 of 185 Old 02-04-2014, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I'm confident that some proper listening tests would have a strong emotional effect on you! ;-)

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That is an understatement.

There is no proper listening test. Just different sounds and preference, after 50 years of listening.
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post #170 of 185 Old 02-04-2014, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoray View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I'm confident that some proper listening tests would have a strong emotional effect on you! ;-)

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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

That is an understatement.

There is no proper listening test. Just different sounds and preference, after 50 years of listening.

The flaw in that particular ointment is that the different sounds from different DACs doesn't necessarily happen.

BTW "50 years of listening" still makes you junior to me, and truth be known I don't trust my ears to A/B good DACs and wouldn't have when I was as young as you appear to be.
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post #171 of 185 Old 02-04-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by videoray View Post

I've looked at most comments on the Oppo 105. Does the Oppo 105 output digital as opposed to analog, say to AVR, or does it only output analog?

It does both, even simultaneously if you want it to.

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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The flaw in that particular ointment is that the different sounds from different DACs doesn't necessarily happen.

BTW "50 years of listening" still makes you junior to me, and truth be known I don't trust my ears to A/B good DACs and wouldn't have when I was as young as you appear to be.

Your right I'm not 80 yet, but I'm sure you were around when 1 bit came out
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post #173 of 185 Old 02-05-2014, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoray View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The flaw in that particular ointment is that the different sounds from different DACs doesn't necessarily happen.

BTW "50 years of listening" still makes you junior to me, and truth be known I don't trust my ears to A/B good DACs and wouldn't have when I was as young as you appear to be.

Your right I'm not 80 yet, but I'm sure you were around when 1 bit came out

Sure, but 1 bit is both obsolete technology and obsolete terminology.

The current best audio converters are Sigma-Delta. They oversample like 1 bit converters but nearly not as agressively. At their core their is a 4 or 6 bit converter or something like that which is oversampled.
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post #174 of 185 Old 03-09-2014, 09:22 AM
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I browsed this post looking for someone who actually owns a BDP-105 and has it connected via USB to their computer to comment on the sound of hi-def digital through it (compared to whatever DAC they owned before). That is what I thought the OP was requesting. Instead there is a ton or tangent discussions (there are a few comments by actual Oppo 105 owners - thanks go to the owner of the Chord CD player for his take, bold font or not) that are grating to have to sift through.

Arrrg
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Originally Posted by Namikis View Post

I browsed this post looking for someone who actually owns a BDP-105 and has it connected via USB to their computer to comment on the sound of hi-def digital through it (compared to whatever DAC they owned before). That is what I thought the OP was requesting. Instead there is a ton or tangent discussions (there are a few comments by actual Oppo 105 owners - thanks go to the owner of the Chord CD player for his take, bold font or not) that are grating to have to sift through.

Arrrg

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1439524/official-oppo-bdp-105-owners-thread/0_100
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1451764/oppo-bdp-105-sound-quality-check-thread-for-audiophiles/0_100
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1511711/official-oppo-bdp-105d-owners-thread/0_100

http://www.oppodigital.com/future/HA-1_Headphone_Amplifier.aspx


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post #176 of 185 Old 05-27-2014, 08:48 PM
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I think the Oppo 105D is the best universal player I ever owned I have to say, my Esoteric DV 50s will best it sound wise, but the improvement will only be noticeable using very high-end preamplifiers and power amplifiers, not any revivers. To get that extra high end SACd quality from the Esoteric you need something like an ARC preamplifier, and ARC, or BAT and VTL tube power amplifier, or the best solid state amplifiers.

The Esoteric also does not have Blu-ray; I play my regular DVDs on the Esoteric at times, but usually I play the Oppo for movies. With two channel stereo, using the balanced outputs, into a Classe preamp/processor, the sound approaches what the Esoteric will do with the same gear.

I think if you have a few extra thousand dollars you do not need, you might want an Esoteric, otherwise the Oppo 105 will do it all well for you.
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post #177 of 185 Old 05-27-2014, 10:21 PM
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My old (modded) Phillips CD-80 CD player gives the oppo a run for its money playing CDs. For 96/24 or any HD music including SDS, the Oppo's DAC is amazingly good. Bests every other DAC I have owned on resolutions, imaging, etc. And I have owned a long list of DACs in the $100 to $1300 range.
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post #178 of 185 Old 05-28-2014, 06:08 AM
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Which do you think would give me the best sound for computer audio, blu-ray and cable box - the DAC in the OPPO 105 or a separate DAC like the Arcam rDAC or REGA DAC etc.?

Thanks for any input at all!

You weren't reading very well above. People have answered this question. There is no difference in sound.
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post #179 of 185 Old 06-09-2014, 09:15 AM
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First, I apologize for resurrecting an old thread, but I'm thinking about an Oppo to hand off to a nice two channel amp and on, and I thought the discussion about measurements in this thread was pretty interesting.

I have a question. I just reviewed the measurements, skipping the discussion of tonal qualities, that Stereophile published on two DACs.

The Peachtree Dac-It

http://www.stereophile.com/content/peachtree-dac149it-da-converter-measurements

and the Auralic

http://www.stereophile.com/content/auralic-vega-da-processor-measurements

Observations on the measurements:

- I agree that most of the measurements are measuring far below the noise floor of amplifiers.

- I think it's telling that Stereophile is not producing head to head data in the same graph, allowing readers to compare the DAC in question against a baseline. It looks as if that's a longstanding
tradition, though - I'd thought I'd seen them do that in tests of speakers, but I just looked at a few older reviews, and I do not see measurements of two speakers from different manufacturers made
at the same time using otherwise identical input equipment.

- I did see one measurement on the DACs that
a) looks as if it might be audible
b) makes the higher priced unit look a lot better

The measurement is the spectrum of 50Hz sinewave, DC–1kHz, at 0dBFS.

I think response in this range should be audible. Also interesting is that pricier DAC was measured with a 600 ohm load and the author states that for the Peachtree, the load had to be increased to 100 kohms
to display useful data - on the 600 ohm load, the clipping on the Peachtree was so prominent that other data were obscured.

So, I'd be interested in folks thoughts on the usefulness of this particular measurement.

Peachtree:



Auralic:

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post #180 of 185 Old 06-23-2014, 05:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by IJB77 View Post
Hi – would really appreciate anyone’s thoughts on the following. I’m looking to upgrade my blu-ray player AND finally enter the era of digital music and am therefore looking for both a DAC and a new blu-ray player.

I will play the blu-ray through my stereo (I have a high end British amp and CD player). So here’s my dilemma. I had originally thought the OPPO 105 would be the perfect solution as in addition to the blu-ray it also has the DAC. However, the more I look into this and read about it, the more I’m pulled towards the need for a separate DAC and have heard that the DAC in the OPPO can’t compete with the stand-alone DACs of equal cost. The final issue is that I’m under a bit of pressure from my darling wife to keep my system as tidy as possible, and try to avoid any more “big boxes”.

So I guess my questions are:

1) How does the DAC in the OPPO 105 stack up against the sub $1,000 separate DACs? Specifically for sound quality from a macbook with pure music, and also from a blu-ray player and cable box?
2) If I would be best off getting a separate DAC, and since I need to at least try and keep it semi-compact, the most recommended under $1,000 seem to be:

a. Rega DAC
b. Schiit Bifrost
c. Resonessence Labs Concero
d. Music Fidelity V DAC II
e. Arcam rDAC
f. Music Fidelity M1 (might be a bit too big?)
g. Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus (again, too big?)
h. Peachtree DAC iT (although this is not asynchronous)
i. Any others?

With regards sound, I’m looking for a neutral, slightly warm character to go with my amp / speakers, not too lively and avoiding unwanted treble and brightness.

Would really appreciate any suggestions / comments / guidance.

Thanks
Unfortunately, there really isn't an objective means, which can be utilized with in this forum, to conclusively answer you're questions. For those of whom that desire the best sound for their buck, there is really only one way to determine such; and that's through personally auditioning various components within their existing system, within their existing acoustic landscape.


The most direct advice that I have for you, is to use your ears, your VISA card and a retailer or two that will permit to return your purchase(s), should you ultimately, decide that it's not the most correct fit for your system, etc.


I don't doubt you have read and will continue to read that most DAC's sound the same; however, this can be very misleading if taken out of context. DAC's in and of themselves, are now, mostly integrated chipsets, and have come along way. Many of the original shortcomings, as they have related to sonic distortions, have been greatly mitigated, however; outside of the chipset other factors, which also contribute sonic goodness are far less worked out, or at least are still highly variable. Circuit topology, component quality and PCB layout, as they relate to the various preamps and power supplies can and do have a very objective and subject effect on DAC's, as a whole system, within a given signal path. This being said, they are typically by far the producers of the least amount of additive distortions, which is to suggest that there's usually weaker links to focus on first. However, if you have progressed to a point / level in which your DAC, as a whole product, has become your last or next fixation towards improvement, improvements are in fact available, but can only be discerned through the means noted above.


In my experience, dollar value is starting to have less and less to do with guiding one to the right fit, with regards to developing the best mix of components. I recommend that you audition, not just well reputed, costly DAC's, but also those that may be unseemly in name and price.


If you discover that you have to convince yourself that a) your hearing something different and b) your not completely sure that what your hearing is better, then I'd recommend that you keep your wife happy, by not adding more hardware and interconnection cables to your system. She will probably also like that fact you haven't spent anymore money on audio, either.
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