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post #1 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi – would really appreciate anyone’s thoughts on the following. I’m looking to upgrade my blu-ray player AND finally enter the era of digital music and am therefore looking for both a DAC and a new blu-ray player.

I will play the blu-ray through my stereo (I have a high end British amp and CD player). So here’s my dilemma. I had originally thought the OPPO 105 would be the perfect solution as in addition to the blu-ray it also has the DAC. However, the more I look into this and read about it, the more I’m pulled towards the need for a separate DAC and have heard that the DAC in the OPPO can’t compete with the stand-alone DACs of equal cost. The final issue is that I’m under a bit of pressure from my darling wife to keep my system as tidy as possible, and try to avoid any more “big boxes”.

So I guess my questions are:

1) How does the DAC in the OPPO 105 stack up against the sub $1,000 separate DACs? Specifically for sound quality from a macbook with pure music, and also from a blu-ray player and cable box?
2) If I would be best off getting a separate DAC, and since I need to at least try and keep it semi-compact, the most recommended under $1,000 seem to be:

a. Rega DAC
b. Schiit Bifrost
c. Resonessence Labs Concero
d. Music Fidelity V DAC II
e. Arcam rDAC
f. Music Fidelity M1 (might be a bit too big?)
g. Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus (again, too big?)
h. Peachtree DAC iT (although this is not asynchronous)
i. Any others?

With regards sound, I’m looking for a neutral, slightly warm character to go with my amp / speakers, not too lively and avoiding unwanted treble and brightness.

Would really appreciate any suggestions / comments / guidance.

Thanks
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post #2 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by IJB77 View Post

Hi – would really appreciate anyone’s thoughts on the following. I’m looking to upgrade my blu-ray player AND finally enter the era of digital music and am therefore looking for both a DAC and a new blu-ray player.

I will play the blu-ray through my stereo (I have a high end British amp and CD player). So here’s my dilemma. I had originally thought the OPPO 105 would be the perfect solution as in addition to the blu-ray it also has the DAC. However, the more I look into this and read about it, the more I’m pulled towards the need for a separate DAC and have heard that the DAC in the OPPO can’t compete with the stand-alone DACs of equal cost. The final issue is that I’m under a bit of pressure from my darling wife to keep my system as tidy as possible, and try to avoid any more “big boxes”.

So I guess my questions are:

1) How does the DAC in the OPPO 105 stack up against the sub $1,000 separate DACs? Specifically for sound quality from a macbook with pure music, and also from a blu-ray player and cable box?

For the kind of money you are thinking about spending, you might do well to completely rethink your situation.

A good general rule of audio is to keep your audio from the digital domain in the digital domain as close to the speakers as is reasonably possible. This goal is probably most simply and efficiently realized by relying on an AVR for the many signal and control functions in a modern audio system. Among other things this can centralize your need for Digital-To-Analog conversion in one place, the AVR. A consequence of this is that a simple Blu Ray player without expensive multichannel digital converters can be your best possible solution.

In these days DACs are no longer the mysterious and highly expensive oddities that they once were. Endlessly upgrading DACs in order to improved obtain sound quality is no longer a productive strategy.
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post #3 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by IJB77 View Post


a. Rega DAC
b. Schiit Bifrost
c. Resonessence Labs Concero
d. Music Fidelity V DAC II
e. Arcam rDAC
f. Music Fidelity M1 (might be a bit too big?)
g. Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus (again, too big?)
h. Peachtree DAC iT (although this is not asynchronous)
i. Any others?

Personally, I would add the Wadia 121 to the list for consideration....

You could get the Oppo and use its internal DAC for now, then audition DAC's to see if there is an improvement you like for the money you may spend, You may find the DAC in the Oppo is good enough for you and your rig.
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post #4 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 08:59 AM
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However, the more I look into this and read about it, the more I’m pulled towards the need for a separate DAC and have heard that the DAC in the OPPO can’t compete with the stand-alone DACs of equal cost.
You're reading the wrong things. As a general rule, standalone DACs offer no sound quality improvement on the DACs in players, computers, AVRs, etc. They are almost always a waste of money.
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With regards sound, I’m looking for a neutral, slightly warm character to go with my amp / speakers, not too lively and avoiding unwanted treble and brightness.
Then you're looking in the wrong place (and once again reading the wrong things). DACs do not differ in sound quality this way.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #5 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks - there's so much information and opinion on this subject, it's a bit confusing for an old timer like me!! So on this basis, the DAC in the OPPO will be as good as a stand alone DAC in that price range? If so, this would make my wife very happy as it would be one less box in the system! smile.gif
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post #6 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 09:33 AM
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Like a stopped clock, sometimes the wife is right!

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #7 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by IJB77 View Post

With regards sound, I’m looking for a neutral, slightly warm character to go with my amp / speakers, not too lively and avoiding unwanted treble and brightness

Getting a neutral, slightly warm sound is a job for your speakers not your amps and not your dacs. The job of amps and dacs is to provide your speakers with a clean signal.
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Originally Posted by IJB77 View Post

Thanks - there's so much information and opinion on this subject, it's a bit confusing for an old timer like me!! So on this basis, the DAC in the OPPO will be as good as a stand alone DAC in that price range? If so, this would make my wife very happy as it would be one less box in the system! smile.gif

Theres the problem, most of the info you read on dacs is opinion. It's by people that just spent a ton of cash and have the need to justify their purchase so they make up claims that the hear a night and day difference. Reality is it's all in the mind. The more you spend the better it must be, right?

Anyway, I agree with the above posters, save your money and use the dac in the avr. Use that saved cash on some cds or blu-rays

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post #8 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 10:45 AM
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Getting a neutral, slightly warm sound is a job for your speakers not your amps and not your dacs. The job of amps and dacs is to provide your speakers with a clean signal.

Weez82 sums it up perfectly. Lots of misinformation in the audio press about DACs sounding warm, bright, etc.
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post #9 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 12:03 PM
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Anyway, I agree with the above posters, save your money and use the dac in the avr. Use that saved cash on some cds or blu-rays

Or in your case, ibj77, use the dac in the Oppo. You've already got a good stereo amp, and the Oppo 105 was designed to double as an AV preamp and be connected directly to an intergrated amp.

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post #10 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by IJB77 View Post

So on this basis, the DAC in the OPPO will be as good as a stand alone DAC in that price range?

Yes, maybe, but at the same time it's not necessarily 'better' than other DACs in other (cheaper) players or receivers.

You probably have already read the Oppo 105 audio quality for audiophile thread for the unanimous praise of the 32-bit Sabre DAC. What '32-bit' actually means or does is a mystery. Oppo's PR is certainly very successful. smile.gif

I'd even question why the Oppo. Most players play digital files nowadays (although the types supported do vary a bit) so what does Oppo do that other cheaper players can't do?

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #11 of 181 Old 03-12-2013, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by IJB77 View Post

Hi – would really appreciate anyone’s thoughts on the following. I’m looking to upgrade my blu-ray player AND finally enter the era of digital music and am therefore looking for both a DAC and a new blu-ray player.

I will play the blu-ray through my stereo (I have a high end British amp and CD player). So here’s my dilemma. I had originally thought the OPPO 105 would be the perfect solution as in addition to the blu-ray it also has the DAC. However, the more I look into this and read about it, the more I’m pulled towards the need for a separate DAC and have heard that the DAC in the OPPO can’t compete with the stand-alone DACs of equal cost. The final issue is that I’m under a bit of pressure from my darling wife to keep my system as tidy as possible, and try to avoid any more “big boxes”.

So I guess my questions are:

1) How does the DAC in the OPPO 105 stack up against the sub $1,000 separate DACs?

The Oppo seems to use the same ESS DAC as this device:

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac2-hgc

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post #12 of 181 Old 03-13-2013, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

I'd even question why the Oppo. Most players play digital files nowadays (although the types supported do vary a bit) so what does Oppo do that other cheaper players can't do?

The Oppo has an optical, coax and usb audio input, and 2 HDMI inputs, which allows it to do everything the OP wants in one box. I agree that the same audio performance can be found for cheaper, but the OP also wants a box that can manage a cable box (HDMI) and audio from a macbook (optical or USB). On top of all that, the 105 pays a lot of special attention to clean audio performance, with XLR balanced stereo outputs, toroidal power supply, and the aforementioned DAC. $1200 is nothing to sneeze at, but when you add it all up, it doesn't strike me as particularly overpriced, especially if does everything the OP is looking for.

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post #13 of 181 Old 03-14-2013, 08:32 PM
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You are not clear what the rest of the system is. I assume you have a basic two chanel British amp and LR full range main speakers and you like the bass response for music. . It is not clear that you have an AV reciever which is serving as your preamp in your system and equally important how current the software on the AV reciever is.
.
Your cable box will deliver (at best) a digital signal for 5.1 channel old fashiion dolby digital signal and you will need an AV reciever to do the D to A conversion and amplify the soudn to what ever speaker channels you have. The Oppo or a two channel DAC won't help you with Cable.

The Oppo will play any disk that you can find....... and it also has an asynch USB DAC input for use with it's Pair of DACS which will go to your preamp with left and right analog cables for music only.. the Laptop will need to be within 15 feet of your Oppo to use the asynch dac and it will be able to send any highresolution Audio only file to the Oppo. . The OPPO will do everything you want. Including sending analog cables to your amplifiers, or a digital hdmi signal to your newish AV reciever for multihchannel sound.. It is positively reviewed.

However, you infer you want the best value out of your kilobuck... Basically, will a high priced, stand alone dac and a cheap 100 buck blue ray player (two boxes on the shelf) meet your needs better. This is the 1 kilobuck question.
So, what do you value the most. The audio for movies out of the blue ray player using the high resolution formats sent to at least two and up to 7.1 speakers...with full bass management... or the standard redbook cd and new high resolution format audio out of your laptop for music listening.on two full range LR speakers...

If you don't play a lot of bluray disks.... and depend on the cable for video... the Oppo has less value and you can spend the money on a USB dac The WAF isa wild card in the equation.

As much as I like the idea of an Oppo, I would rarely obtain and spin a blu ray disk... I care much much more about the two channel music then the video quality. A cheap bluray player is good enough for me and far superior to the cable box (which is actually good enough for my video needs). YMMV of course.
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You are not clear what the rest of the system is. I assume you have a basic two chanel British amp and LR full range main speakers and you like the bass response for music. . It is not clear that you have an AV reciever which is serving as your preamp in your system and equally important how current the software on the AV reciever is.
.
Your cable box will deliver (at best) a digital signal for 5.1 channel old fashiion dolby digital signal and you will need an AV reciever to do the D to A conversion and amplify the soudn to what ever speaker channels you have. The Oppo or a two channel DAC won't help you with Cable.

The Oppo will play any disk that you can find....... and it also has an asynch USB DAC input for use with it's Pair of DACS which will go to your preamp with left and right analog cables for music only.. the Laptop will need to be within 15 feet of your Oppo to use the asynch dac and it will be able to send any highresolution Audio only file to the Oppo. . The OPPO will do everything you want. Including sending analog cables to your amplifiers, or a digital hdmi signal to your newish AV reciever for multihchannel sound.. It is positively reviewed.

However, you infer you want the best value out of your kilobuck... Basically, will a high priced, stand alone dac and a cheap 100 buck blue ray player (two boxes on the shelf) meet your needs better. This is the 1 kilobuck question.
So, what do you value the most. The audio for movies out of the blue ray player using the high resolution formats sent to at least two and up to 7.1 speakers...with full bass management... or the standard redbook cd and new high resolution format audio out of your laptop for music listening.on two full range LR speakers...

If you don't play a lot of bluray disks.... and depend on the cable for video... the Oppo has less value and you can spend the money on a USB dac The WAF isa wild card in the equation.

As much as I like the idea of an Oppo, I would rarely obtain and spin a blu ray disk... I care much much more about the two channel music then the video quality. A cheap bluray player is good enough for me and far superior to the cable box (which is actually good enough for my video needs). YMMV of course.



Thanks so much for the response and advice.

I am currently using just an analogue stereo amp (which I love) and have both my current very basic and quite old blu-ray and my cable box running through it via the analogue out plugs in the back of each machine (to improve on the basic sound quality from the TV speakers) and played on a pair of stereo speakers.

In a perfect world I would love to have an AV receiver for TV and movies and keep my stereo amp for music, but due to financial constraints (and a wife smile.gif) I have to keep things as simple as possible and work with just my analogue stereo amplifier.

I love my set up for music from my CD player but am looking to get a new blu-ray and have read great things about the new OPPOs, and I am looking to start playing digital music through my stereo from my mac too. So that's the background to the question. So I guess the two options I was considering are:

(1) OPPO 105 and using its built in DAC for computer audio, as well as the cable and blu-ray (although you seem to think that a digital out from the cable box to a DAC and then into an analogue amplifier wouldn't work? Have I understood that correctly?)

(2) OPPO 103 and separate DAC for music, blu-ray and cable box

Which do you think would give me the best sound for computer audio, blu-ray and cable box - the DAC in the OPPO 105 or a separate DAC like the Arcam rDAC or REGA DAC etc.?

Thanks for any input at all!
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post #15 of 181 Old 03-15-2013, 07:46 AM
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Something to consider, if the money difference is enough for it to matter to you: a DAC is a solid-state device that I can't see any reason for it to fail. I would expect at least a decade or more use from one - I bet plenty of people are still using the original Benchmark DAC1 today.

I bought an Oppo DV971H before Blu-ray was around (at least I think it was before that) and before 1080p was common. 1080p displays came out, and then Blu-ray arrived/took off, and my DV971H was no longer any use to me after a couple of years. I would not expect to keep the Oppo BDP-105 for a decade. Who knows if we will even be using Blu-ray by then. We will likely have moved on to some 4K native format that uses H.265 so you won't even be able to stream content to it, and won't want to use the HDMI inputs, as it won't passthrough HDMI 1.5/2.0 or whatever format we get.

And even if none of that has changed and we are still using Blu-ray in 2023 (unlikely...) I don't know that a modern optical drive would hold up that long, so you have mechanical failure to consider.

I'm sure the BDP-105 is a nice bit of kit, but even cheap Blu-ray players should be capable of proper decoding for video playback, and I just don't see it having the longevity of an external DAC. If you already have a Blu-ray player, unless it's a first-generation device, there's absolutely no reason to "upgrade" to the Oppo.

Unless something radical happens, I don't see us moving away from having Coax/Toslink/USB options for audio in the future - these seem pretty standardized formats, and modern DACs now exceed the limit of human hearing, so we're unlikely to have any new formats introduced or any sudden breakthroughs in audio quality.
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post #16 of 181 Old 03-15-2013, 07:49 AM
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I believe this question was already answered, of the two choices you mention (1) seems to be the better choice, although not the best one. The overall advice is neither.

I am just learning (will it ever end?) all of this as well, so I am not here to supercede the advice or expertise of others, and I am sure I will be corrected if wrong.

If it is a matter of budget, any oppo and/or DAC will be much more expensive than the average (and very good quality) AVR and any number of blu-ray players. I believe everyone who has answered advocates DAC in AVR as preferable in any configuration.

I believe your issue to be emotional attachment to your existing equipment, and despite any advice this will not be overcome. This is the problem you should be working out, not separate and more expensive components to appease your comfort level with the system you own. You can simplify your setup, appease your wife, have a more scalable and flexible system, and spend much less money by taking a holistic view of the entire setup, Your wife doesn't want any more big boxes, yet your proposal is to add two more when others are recommending only an AVR.

OPPO is pure marketing, this is why you have read great things. They are trying to be the swiss army knife of AV gear when most people only need the toothpick. Yet people will praise them for their features, continue to buy, and continue to recommend them needlessly.

Who knows? You may love the new setup even better.

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post #17 of 181 Old 03-15-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by IJB77 View Post

Thanks so much for the response and advice.

I am currently using just an analogue stereo amp (which I love) and have both my current very basic and quite old blu-ray and my cable box running through it via the analogue out plugs in the back of each machine (to improve on the basic sound quality from the TV speakers) and played on a pair of stereo speakers.

In a perfect world I would love to have an AV receiver for TV and movies and keep my stereo amp for music, but due to financial constraints (and a wife smile.gif) I have to keep things as simple as possible and work with just my analogue stereo amplifier.

I love my set up for music from my CD player but am looking to get a new blu-ray and have read great things about the new OPPOs, and I am looking to start playing digital music through my stereo from my mac too. So that's the background to the question. So I guess the two options I was considering are:

(1) OPPO 105 and using its built in DAC for computer audio, as well as the cable and blu-ray (although you seem to think that a digital out from the cable box to a DAC and then into an analogue amplifier wouldn't work? Have I understood that correctly?)

(2) OPPO 103 and separate DAC for music, blu-ray and cable box

Which do you think would give me the best sound for computer audio, blu-ray and cable box - the DAC in the OPPO 105 or a separate DAC like the Arcam rDAC or REGA DAC etc.?

Thanks for any input at all!

The Oppo 105 has a built in Dac plug your USB cable in the the Oppo and from your Mac. Look around on the internet and you'll see that many folks like what they hear from this solution. It is mostly opinion but you will understand that it works well for your application.

The Oppo 105 is a good blu-ray player. Look around on the internet and you'll see that many folks like what they see from this solution. It is mostly opinion but you will understand that it works well for your application.

Continue to use your amp connected to your existing cable box (which you love).
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post #18 of 181 Old 03-15-2013, 08:41 AM
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OPPO is pure marketing, this is why you have read great things. They are trying to be the swiss army knife of AV gear when most people only need the toothpick. Yet people will praise them for their features, continue to buy, and continue to recommend them needlessly.

Yes, but this is the rare case where the OP needs the swiss army knife.

I agree with most of the above posters that, starting from scratch, a good AVR and a cheap blu ray player is the most cost effective solution. If you like your stereo, though, why mess with it? The Oppo is overpriced, but only a little, and it keeps the wife happy, which is priceless smile.gif

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post #19 of 181 Old 03-15-2013, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by IJB77 View Post

Thanks so much for the response and advice.

I am currently using just an analogue stereo amp (which I love) and have both my current very basic and quite old blu-ray and my cable box running through it via the analogue out plugs in the back of each machine (to improve on the basic sound quality from the TV speakers) and played on a pair of stereo speakers.

In a perfect world I would love to have an AV receiver for TV and movies and keep my stereo amp for music, but due to financial constraints (and a wife smile.gif) I have to keep things as simple as possible and work with just my analogue stereo amplifier.

I love my set up for music from my CD player but am looking to get a new blu-ray and have read great things about the new OPPOs, and I am looking to start playing digital music through my stereo from my mac too. So that's the background to the question. So I guess the two options I was considering are:

(1) OPPO 105 and using its built in DAC for computer audio, as well as the cable and blu-ray (although you seem to think that a digital out from the cable box to a DAC and then into an analogue amplifier wouldn't work? Have I understood that correctly?)

(2) OPPO 103 and separate DAC for music, blu-ray and cable box

Which do you think would give me the best sound for computer audio, blu-ray and cable box - the DAC in the OPPO 105 or a separate DAC like the Arcam rDAC or REGA DAC etc.?

Thanks for any input at all!

Ok... I am going to assume that when you watch the news on your cable box ... you don't turn on your stereo amp. Basically you turn on the amp for TV shows and movies played on the cable box or your existing blue ray... Youi don't have room or budget for any of the speakers you need for an HT setup You don't use the radio or plug an ipod into anything.

So... all you want to improve your two channel sound from the cable box or your blue ray player. The only box that solves this problem is an AV reciever. It would take the hdmi cable from your blue ray, and use the 2013 software to decode the high resolution audio and video for your TV set.... It will also take the hdmi from your cable box and do the same with video and it will also handle the standard plain vanilla dolby 5.1 digital signal. You could put your 2 channel amp in the closet and wait for the day that you want to expand (more speakers etc) Your old blu ray player software is irrelvant... your 2013 version AV reciever will do all of the computer processing .... it is basically a disk spinner for Blue Rays, DVDs, and CDs. Use it untill it stops. You still watch the news in the same fashion...

Your computer and music playing is actually your real issue and you haven't thought about it.. What digitall format is your music, do you use an ipod, Do you prefer flac (full resolution files) or is most of your music compressed for the ipod. Heck... you might just want to use the IPOD docs that most AV recievers provide... If you don't want to sort this out right now.. just make sure your AV reciever has an asynhronous usb dac input... and you preserve all of your option.s

Consider, How do you want to play music from your computer... Of course you could sit at the PC and play files but this is hardly a user friendly experience... You could hook the PC up to the TV so that you can sit in ths sofa and see the PC desktop....and then use a wireless mouse and keyboard to navigate. from the sofa... , You can get software on the PC so that your iphone or your android phone or tablet can control the music etc etc.. and you see your collection on your wifi network on your smartphone. You can also go a different way to control the music playing by using DLNA. methods...

Before you do anything... you should answer those questions... about what you want from control of your music collection.

The cheapest solution would be to simply add a USB DAC to your 2 channel amp, .... howeer, I have no idea how you would switch between the cable box, the blue ray player and your two channel output from a stand alone dac... I would not do anything without a bit more thought.

YMMV
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post #20 of 181 Old 03-15-2013, 09:04 AM
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.
OPPO is pure marketing, this is why you have read great things. They are trying to be the swiss army knife of AV gear when most people only need the toothpick. Yet people will praise them for their features, continue to buy, and continue to recommend them needlessly.

Do you have personal experience with the 105? Are you basing your comment "pure marketing" on measurements you've seen in publications that show it's audio specs are similar to a less expensive player/dac? Was it pure marketing when they sold their early blu-ray players for $150 online?

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Yes, but this is the rare case where the OP needs the swiss army knife.

I agree with most of the above posters that, starting from scratch, a good AVR and a cheap blu ray player is the most cost effective solution. If you like your stereo, though, why mess with it? The Oppo is overpriced, but only a little, and it keeps the wife happy, which is priceless smile.gif

Agree JD,

The OP asked for suggestions with a product in mind, the 105. He didn't say what is the least expensive solution. Which would be a different topic.
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post #21 of 181 Old 03-15-2013, 09:38 AM
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Do you have personal experience with the 105? Are you basing your comment "pure marketing" on measurements you've seen in publications that show it's audio specs are similar to a less expensive player/dac? Was it pure marketing when they sold their early blu-ray players for $150 online?
Agree JD,

The OP asked for suggestions with a product in mind, the 105. He didn't say what is the least expensive solution. Which would be a different topic.

Nope, I don't need personal experience to evaluate features and equate them to that which exists in cheaper, more flexible and scalable alternatives. My AVR, my Panasonic Blu-Ray, my legacy Denon play everything box connected via Denonlink easily equal, perhaps surpass anything Oppo offers. I don't think anyone but diehard fans cares what Oppo sold in the past.

Well no, he didn't say least expensive solution, but he did say financial constraints. Semantics, but my feedback is valid.

Good day.

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my legacy Denon play everything box connected via Denonlink.

Do you listen to SACD's through Denonlink.
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post #23 of 181 Old 03-15-2013, 05:56 PM
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Yes I do. Denon AVR-4311 & DVD-2930CI connected via Denonlink3 is an excellent combination.

Edit: here's an old article by Kal Rubinson. My gear is newer but the story is the same. When I bought the 2930 (for about $200 as I recall) I also had to upgrade from DL2 to DL3. With this configuration there is no DSD to PCM conversion

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Nope, I don't need personal experience to evaluate features and equate them to that which exists in cheaper, alternatives...
Well no, he didn't say least expensive solution.

Just opinion?
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post #25 of 181 Old 03-15-2013, 08:45 PM
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Yes I do. Denon AVR-4311 & DVD-2930CI connected via Denonlink3 is an excellent combination.

There is no marketing in the promotion of SACD is there? And if you dig deep you'll find that SACD, DVD-A and Hi Res files are just opinion. No ABX have shown an audible difference between SACD and redbook yet you suggest to the OP that he procure a Denon AVR-4311 & DVD-2930CI and connect them via Denonlink3 is a more cost affective solution than an Oppo 105.

Ok.

Perhaps you may explain how easy it is to assemble such a system, because I'm not clear on the ease of operation.
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post #26 of 181 Old 03-15-2013, 11:40 PM
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Jeez you're full of crap. I never suggested anything of the sort. You brought up SACD. I'm only suggesting there are more cost EFFECTIVE solutions. Your affectation, however, is falling short.

I'm done with you.

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post #27 of 181 Old 03-16-2013, 04:16 AM
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Isn’t DSD essentially a form of compression for high resolution audio? DSD files will be smaller than DXD. (DXD is 24-bit, 352.4kHz PCM)

Pretty much nothing is actually native DSD—you can’t edit it at all without converting it to PCM first, so I don't see the problem with converting it to PCM for playback.

I don’t think whether your player/DAC says "DSD" on playback or not really makes a difference—similar to how people think that "converting" TrueHD/DTS-HD to PCM is somehow worse.
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I am just learning (will it ever end?) all of this as well.


You've made that apparent.


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I am not here to supercede the advice or expertise of others, and I am sure I will be corrected if wrong.


However, you don't take the critism you anticipated well.


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Jeez you're full of crap...I'm done with you.



Ok, don't injure yourself banging on your highchair.
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post #29 of 181 Old 03-16-2013, 10:31 AM
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Pretty much nothing is actually native DSD—you can’t edit it at all without converting it to PCM first, so I don't see the problem with converting it to PCM for playback.

I don’t think whether your player/DAC says "DSD" on playback or not really makes a difference—similar to how people think that "converting" TrueHD/DTS-HD to PCM is somehow worse.

I'm sorry, can you explain the "nothing is actually native DSD" and comment on editing? If you are referencing EQ/bass management this is true, PCM conversion is necessary. With DL3 and no Audyssey DSD direct setting retains the DSD bitstream until conversion to analog.

I think the difference might be in the source recording and bitrate, but I'll stick with the belief that the least amount of conversion is always best.

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post #30 of 181 Old 03-16-2013, 11:38 AM
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I'm sorry, can you explain the "nothing is actually native DSD" and comment on editing? If you are referencing EQ/bass management this is true, PCM conversion is necessary. With DL3 and no Audyssey DSD direct setting retains the DSD bitstream until conversion to analog.

I think the difference might be in the source recording and bitrate, but I'll stick with the belief that the least amount of conversion is always best.
I was under the impression that most (all?) of the workstations to edit DSD are converting to DXD as an intermediate format for processing, then spitting out DSD at the end. So if it's been converted to PCM (DXD is just 24-bit 352.4kHz PCM) in the editing stages, who cares if you're converting to PCM in the player/DAC?

And if you record to DXD directly, rather than recording to DSD and then converting to DXD, there's a lot less high frequency noise - DSD is an inherently noisy format because it relies on a lot of noise shaping to work.

And I think all DSD-equipped devices are required to have a 50kHz lowpass filter on output anyway, as noise above that can introduce distortion with amplifiers & loudspeakers, which is effectively reducing you to the equivalent of 100kHz PCM anyway (PCM can sample signals up to half its frequency) which is basically no different from 96kHz... and our range of hearing is only up to 20kHz anyway, with most adults being considerably lower than that.

It just seems like the introduction of some new DAC chips in the last 6-12 months that can decode DSD natively are being used as a new selling point, rather than actually offering any real benefit. I could be wrong.
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