DAC Comparison: Integrated Amplifiers vs PC Sound Cards vs Stand-Alone DAC's - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 64 Old 03-18-2013, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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In the interest of space saving and convenience, I recently copied my entire CD collection to hard drive using dbpoweramp in .wav format. Now I have to decide on the best way to play back my music from the hard drive. Of course I could just simply connect the sound card of my PC's motherboard to one of the line-level inputs of my analog preamp, but I suspect that this configuration would be below the standards of discerning listerners. Right now I'm leaning towards getting an integrated amplifier with an onboard DAC (NAD C 375DAC, Onkyo A-9070, Harmon Kardon HK 990, etc.), since it's my understanding that you ideally want to convert from digital to analog as close to the speakers as possible. However, I am open to the idea of installing a high-end sound card on my PC, which I built a few years ago as a dedicated entertainment computer. Currently, I'm leaning away from the idea of buying a stand-alone DAC, but I'm open to changing my mind if there any objective reasons for doing so. What's the opinion of the folks on this board on these three configurations?

1) Integrated Amp w/DAC
2) High-end PC Sound Card
3) Stand-alone DAC
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post #2 of 64 Old 03-18-2013, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by trackfan View Post

In the interest of space saving and convenience, I recently copied my entire CD collection to hard drive using dbpoweramp in .wav format. Now I have to decide on the best way to play back my music from the hard drive. Of course I could just simply connect the sound card of my PC's motherboard to one of the line-level inputs of my analog preamp, but I suspect that this configuration would be below the standards of discerning listeners.

In their minds for sure. In reality it all depends. The SQ of PC audio interfaces, particular the analog outputs of on-board audio interfaces, is variable and can be either on the edge or be less than is required.

If your PC has a HDMI output for digital video, it generally also has 4 stereo digital outputs as well.
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Right now I'm leaning towards getting an integrated amplifier with an onboard DAC (NAD C 375DAC, Onkyo A-9070, Harmon Kardon HK 990, etc.), since it's my understanding that you ideally want to convert from digital to analog as close to the speakers as possible.

Generally, these are gigantic wastes of money. You generally can get far more quality and function for your money with a 5.1 AVR running in 2-channel mode.
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However, I am open to the idea of installing a high-end sound card on my PC, which I built a few years ago as a dedicated entertainment computer. Currently, I'm leaning away from the idea of buying a stand-alone DAC, but I'm open to changing my mind if there any objective reasons for doing so. What's the opinion of the folks on this board on these three configurations?

Your best bet is to set up a digital connection between your PC and your audio system.

The best system architecture is the one that keeps the audio in digital form as close to the speaker terminals as possible, and when everything is considered the best way to do that these days probably involves an AVR.
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post #3 of 64 Old 03-18-2013, 05:31 PM
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1) Integrated Amp w/DAC
2) High-end PC Sound Card
3) Stand-alone DAC
None of the above. 2 and 3 are likely wastes of money. I agree with Arny that the best choice is an AVR. 1 will cost more and probably deliver less.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #4 of 64 Old 03-18-2013, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

If your PC has a HDMI output for digital video, it generally also has 4 stereo digital outputs as well..
My motherboard has an HDMI output via a Black Magic Intensity video card that I installed. Based on my reading of the owner's manual, I need to install an optional card for a S/PDIF port.
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Generally, these are gigantic wastes of money. You generally can get far more quality and function for your money with a 5.1 AVR running in 2-channel mode.
Your best bet is to set up a digital connection between your PC and your audio system.

The best system architecture is the one that keeps the audio in digital form as close to the speaker terminals as possible, and when everything is considered the best way to do that these days probably involves an AVR.
So I assume you feel that the DAC's in these high-end integrated amps have nothing on the ones in cheaper AVR's. What's your view as to why a company like Onkyo only charges $300 for the TX-NR515 AVR and $1200 for the A-9070 Integrated Amplifier, which doesn't have a tuner and only has stereo output? Is it an economy-of-scales thing, where Onkyo can give the customers better value for products that they manufacture by the truckload versus products that are manufactured in small quanities? I notice that other companies like Yamaha and Harmon Kardon have similar price differentials between their recievers and their integrated amps.
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post #5 of 64 Old 03-18-2013, 06:16 PM
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Hi Trackfan,

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, you have answered your own question: economies of scale.

Another cliché that comes to mind is the chicken and the egg. Their stereo system won't come down to AVR prices until it hits reasonable economies of scale, and at $1200, it won't ever reach reasonable economies of scale when an AVR is $300.
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post #6 of 64 Old 03-18-2013, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by trackfan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

If your PC has a HDMI output for digital video, it generally also has 4 stereo digital outputs as well..
My motherboard has an HDMI output via a Black Magic Intensity video card that I installed. Based on my reading of the owner's manual, I need to install an optional card for a S/PDIF port.

If your system has an AVR in it, you should be able to route audio to it digitally via the existing HDMI port.
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Generally, these are gigantic wastes of money. You generally can get far more quality and function for your money with a 5.1 AVR running in 2-channel mode.
Your best bet is to set up a digital connection between your PC and your audio system.

The best system architecture is the one that keeps the audio in digital form as close to the speaker terminals as possible, and when everything is considered the best way to do that these days probably involves an AVR.

So I assume you feel that the DAC's in these high-end integrated amps have nothing on the ones in cheaper AVR's. What's your view as to why a company like Onkyo only charges $300 for the TX-NR515 AVR and $1200 for the A-9070 Integrated Amplifier, which doesn't have a tuner and only has stereo output? Is it an economy-of-scales thing, where Onkyo can give the customers better value for products that they manufacture by the truckload versus products that are manufactured in small quanities? I notice that other companies like Yamaha and Harmon Kardon have similar price differentials between their receivers and their integrated amps.

Don't discount the effects of economies of scale and competition. When we compare 2 channel receivers to 5.1 AVRs, that is no doubt what we are seeing.

From a parts and chassis standpoint, only a tiny part of an AVR is added in the process of going from 2 channels to 5.1. Basically 3 power amps, a minor upgrade to the power supply, the back panel connectors, and not a whole lot else. On lower end AVRs, the power amps are packaged 3 or more to a circuit card so the practical difference between a stereo receiver and a 5.1 AVR can be as little as that one card.


The difference between a 2 channel AVR and a 5.1 AVR is about half of the circuitry on the circuit card shown in pink on this drawing:



Everything else has to be there, regardless of the number of channels.
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post #7 of 64 Old 03-18-2013, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

If your system has an AVR in it, you should be able to route audio to it digitally via the existing HDMI port.
Don't discount the effects of economies of scale and competition. When we compare 2 channel receivers to 5.1 AVRs, that is no doubt what we are seeing.

From a parts and chassis standpoint, only a tiny part of an AVR is added in the process of going from 2 channels to 5.1. Basically 3 power amps, a minor upgrade to the power supply, the back panel connectors, and not a whole lot else. On lower end AVRs, the power amps are packaged 3 or more to a circuit card so the practical difference between a stereo receiver and a 5.1 AVR can be as little as that one card.


The difference between a 2 channel AVR and a 5.1 AVR is about half of the circuitry on the circuit card shown in pink on this drawing:



Everything else has to be there, regardless of the number of channels.
But at twice the weight, the A-9070 must have something that the TX-NR515 doesn't have. You seem to be implying that all Onkyo has done is removed the tuner and the extra amplifier channels, added heat sinks, beefed up the chassis and quadrupled the price. Is it that simple? Isn't there a possibility that there's some extra R&D cost they're trying to recoup?
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post #8 of 64 Old 03-18-2013, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

Hi Trackfan,

Welcome to the forum.
Thanks. I've read the forum off and on for a while, but now that I'm actually putting a didgital hi-fi system together, I figured I should clear up my understanding of these things.
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post #9 of 64 Old 03-18-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

When we compare 2 channel receivers to 5.1 AVRs, that is no doubt what we are seeing.

Arny for a dedicated stereo system would a 2 channel receiver be better investment than a 5.1, 7.1 etc? Obviously I'm getting more channels and more features (concert halls soundfields, dts etc) offered by the 5.1/7.1 AVR that I don't really need at all. The downside I think is that, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall a lot of 2 channel receivers having things like HDMI and room correction included.

I remember when I first got into this hobby, I read lots of hifi boards which touted about the claimed superiority of separates/integrated amps over receivers due to things like interference from video circuitry and the tuners inside them.
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post #10 of 64 Old 03-18-2013, 10:15 PM
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I am now PC based for my music collection.

As for getting it from my PC to playing it in my room... I have all sorts of gear that I have tried one way or another. Dedicated two channel amps and pre-amps... outboard stand alone USB DACs, decent audio sound cards outputting either coaxial or optical... multichannel AVRs, and HDMI audio from the PC's video card.

After trying all different combinations of the above gear that I all still currently own, I have ended up outputting the audio over the video card's HDMI to the AVR. Being able to utilise the AVR's bass management has been a huge plus to me over the conventional 2 channel amps that don't offer bass management. Comparing the 2 channel amps against the AVR in 'Pure Direct' mode sounds exactly the same so I can't detect any loss in quality by using the AVR for 2ch music playback. But engaging the bass management sees the AVR leap ahead in sound quality. And surprisingly the video card's audio over HDMI sounds better to me than USB DACs and is less temperamental as well.

arnyk is offering good solid advice in this thread.
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post #11 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 04:17 AM
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But at twice the weight, the A-9070 must have something that the TX-NR515 doesn't have. You seem to be implying that all Onkyo has done is removed the tuner and the extra amplifier channels, added heat sinks, beefed up the chassis and quadrupled the price. Is it that simple? Isn't there a possibility that there's some extra R&D cost they're trying to recoup?

I remember years ago Sony used to put heavy metal plates in their more expensive components because people viewed more weight as more quality. I'm not suggesting that is the case here. I'm just suggesting that the goal of every manufacturer is to get you to buy their product instead of the products of their competitors.
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post #12 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

I am now PC based for my music collection.

As for getting it from my PC to playing it in my room... I have all sorts of gear that I have tried one way or another. Dedicated two channel amps and pre-amps... outboard stand alone USB DACs, decent audio sound cards outputting either coaxial or optical... multichannel AVRs, and HDMI audio from the PC's video card.

After trying all different combinations of the above gear that I all still currently own, I have ended up outputting the audio over the video card's HDMI to the AVR. Being able to utilise the AVR's bass management has been a huge plus to me over the conventional 2 channel amps that don't offer bass management. Comparing the 2 channel amps against the AVR in 'Pure Direct' mode sounds exactly the same so I can't detect any loss in quality by using the AVR for 2ch music playback. But engaging the bass management sees the AVR leap ahead in sound quality. And surprisingly the video card's audio over HDMI sounds better to me than USB DACs and is less temperamental as well.
Thanks for your input but I have a couple of questions. What do you mean by "bass management"? Is your AVR a high-end unit or one of the moderately priced ones that places like Best Buy sell by the bushels? Also, what's the difference between $300 AVR's and ones costing $2000 or $3000 from the same manufacturers?
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post #13 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by trackfan View Post

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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

If your system has an AVR in it, you should be able to route audio to it digitally via the existing HDMI port.
Don't discount the effects of economies of scale and competition. When we compare 2 channel receivers to 5.1 AVRs, that is no doubt what we are seeing.

From a parts and chassis standpoint, only a tiny part of an AVR is added in the process of going from 2 channels to 5.1. Basically 3 power amps, a minor upgrade to the power supply, the back panel connectors, and not a whole lot else. On lower end AVRs, the power amps are packaged 3 or more to a circuit card so the practical difference between a stereo receiver and a 5.1 AVR can be as little as that one card.


The difference between a 2 channel AVR and a 5.1 AVR is about half of the circuitry on the circuit card shown in pink on this drawing:



Everything else has to be there, regardless of the number of channels.

But at twice the weight, the A-9070 must have something that the TX-NR515 doesn't have.

These pictures of the A-9070 (upper photo) versus a lower end Onkyo AVR product (lower photo) may provide some hints:

http://onkyosound.blogspot.com/2012/06/der-onkyo-9070-ein-hammer-teil-unter.html





My eye sees bigger transformers, heat sinks, and other potentially heavy items in the upper photo. In some cases these weighty parts may be twice as large and may also appear in twice the quantity as the lower end AVR. There is your weight.
Quote:
You seem to be implying that all Onkyo has done is removed the tuner and the extra amplifier channels, added heat sinks, beefed up the chassis and quadrupled the price. Is it that simple? Isn't there a possibility that there's some extra R&D cost they're trying to recoup?

No, you changed the comparison. You are comparing apples and oranges - a high end device versus a mid-fi device.

Nevertheless, most of us don't buy audio gear to accumulate weight. We buy audio gear to have good sound. All the weight in the world is worthless to me if it doesn't give me better sound quality. That's my particular value system, I don't know if it yours or if it should be yours.
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post #14 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

These pictures of the A-9070 (upper photo) versus a lower end Onkyo AVR product (lower photo) may provide some hints:

My eye sees bigger transformers, heat sinks, and other potentially heavy items in the upper photo. In some cases these weighty parts may be twice as large and may also appear in twice the quantity as the lower end AVR. There is your weight.
No, you changed the comparison. You are comparing apples and oranges - a high end device versus a mid-fi device.

Nevertheless, most of us don't buy audio gear to accumulate weight. We buy audio gear to have good sound. All the weight in the world is worthless to me if it doesn't give me better sound quality. That's my particular value system, I don't know if it yours or if it should be yours.
Of course I don't buy equipment for the weight, but at least when it comes to amplifiers and receivers, I've always accepted the axiom that extra weight (heat sinks, transformers, etc.) usually comes with more power. If we were discussing tuners or preamps, weight would be irrelevant. I guess my bottom line question is whether or not a high-end AVR or integrated amp (eg. Yamaha RX-A2020BL, Onkyo TX-NR1010, Denon AVR-3313CI, Onkyo A-9070, etc.) offers anything over $400 AVR's other than more power and more inputs? More specifically, is it your position that the DAC section of $400 AVR's performs as well as the DAC section of $1500 AVR's?
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post #15 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackfan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

These pictures of the A-9070 (upper photo) versus a lower end Onkyo AVR product (lower photo) may provide some hints:

My eye sees bigger transformers, heat sinks, and other potentially heavy items in the upper photo. In some cases these weighty parts may be twice as large and may also appear in twice the quantity as the lower end AVR. There is your weight.
No, you changed the comparison. You are comparing apples and oranges - a high end device versus a mid-fi device.

Nevertheless, most of us don't buy audio gear to accumulate weight. We buy audio gear to have good sound. All the weight in the world is worthless to me if it doesn't give me better sound quality. That's my particular value system, I don't know if it yours or if it should be yours.

Of course I don't buy equipment for the weight, but at least when it comes to amplifiers and receivers, I've always accepted the axiom that extra weight (heat sinks, transformers, etc.) usually comes with more power.

Let the spec sheet and technical testing be your guide.

For example I have two power amps that are both about 125 wpc @ 8 ohms very clean, and one (the older one) weighs about twice what the other does. What changed in the intervening 20 or so years is that due to advances in technology, it became permissible to operate (fewer) power transistors and smaller power transformers at higher temperatures which means that they could be smaller and lighter. Those large filter caps in power amp power supplies have also become quite a bit smaller and lighter for the same capacitance and low ESL and ESR. Neither amp works much different and I've had and stressed the newer one long enough to rate it as being as reliable as can be. But when I'm going to carry them to a gig, I know which one I'll pick first! ;-)
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If we were discussing tuners or preamps, weight would be irrelevant. I guess my bottom line question is whether or not a high-end AVR or integrated amp (eg. Yamaha RX-A2020BL, Onkyo TX-NR1010, Denon AVR-3313CI, Onkyo A-9070, etc.) offers anything over $400 AVR's other than more power and more inputs? More specifically, is it your position that the DAC section of $400 AVR's performs as well as the DAC section of $1500 AVR's?

I have looked at many of the issues you've raised by inspecting the actual hardware, looking at service manuals, examining online photographs. In general the more expensive AVRs are better made. Nicer power transformers and sometimes more of them. The converters are better. They use better op amps. The power amp circuits are more sophisticated. But, as I pointed out in another thread, even the converters in one of the cheaper AVRs around, the Yamaha RXV-371 are overkill for the real job at hand. Ditto for its IC-based power amps, packed 3 to a board instead of on individual boards.

In the end, for me it is all about the sound. I've expounded here at length many times how the dynamic nature of music means that we can benefit if we remember that we are building audio amps, not arc welders! ;-)
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post #16 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

In the end, for me it is all about the sound. I've expounded here at length many times how the dynamic nature of music means that we can benefit if we remember that we are building audio amps, not arc welders! ;-)
This reminds me of a review of a class A amp (Mark Levinson ?) that I read years ago, in which the reviewer actually welded with it to prove how stout it was. Anyway, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. It's really appreciate:)d.
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post #17 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 03:25 PM
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What do you mean by "bass management"?

Bass management in an AVR is an active digital crossover for the lower frequencies. I used 2-way speakers in my room, so being able to offload 60 or 80hz off them and send that to subs instead is a big benefit as it basically turns my speakers into 3-ways as they are no longer needing to play the low frequencies to high dB levels. It gives them better crispness and detail through the midrange. And by sending 60hz and below to subs, I can fine tune their setup and placement to achieve a smooth frequency response down to around 25hz. The speakers by themselves would have only achieved around 35hz in my room. Like many people, once you have had an extra 10hz lower down it's hard to go back to not having it.

Of course you can use subs with conventional 2ch pre-amps, but without crossover management seamless integration becomes a lot trickier to achieve. You also don't get the benefit of offloading the main speakers of the lower frequencies.

But my AVR' bass management has increased my enjoyment of listening to music that none of my fancy-pants old school 2ch gear could ever achieve. And being able to keep my digital music collection digital for as long as possible in the chain is a big benefit as well.




Quote:
Is your AVR a high-end unit or one of the moderately priced ones that places like Best Buy sell by the bushels?

Mine is a midpoint AVR. (a slightly older model Yamaha 1065) There are certainly cheaper and certainly much more expensive Yamaha AVRs. As well as getting slightly better build quality and a bit more power with higher model lines, you also get more features like more channels (11.2 instead of 5.1) and pre-outs for external power-amps. It's a matter of picking one that suits your budget and requirements.

..
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post #18 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Bass management in an AVR is an active digital crossover for the lower frequencies. I used 2-way speakers in my room, so being able to offload 60 or 80hz off them and send that to subs instead is a big benefit as it basically turns my speakers into 3-ways as they are no longer needing to play the low frequencies to high dB levels. It gives them better crispness and detail through the midrange. And by sending 60hz and below to subs, I can fine tune their setup and placement to achieve a smooth frequency response down to around 25hz. The speakers by themselves would have only achieved around 35hz in my room. Like many people, once you have had an extra 10hz lower down it's hard to go back to not having it.
Okay. I have an active crossover that I was planning on using for my subwoofer anyway, but I'm interested in the idea of crossing over digitally instead analog. I wasn't aware that modern crossovers could split digital signals.
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post #19 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 04:49 PM
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Okay. I have an active crossover that I was planning on using for my subwoofer anyway, but I'm interested in the idea of crossing over digitally instead analog.

I think you'll find any crossovers that are made out of coils and resistors are passive crossovers. There are standalone digital crossovers on the market like the MiniDSP they take an analog RCA input but digitise it to perform whatever task you set it to do then reconverts back to analog at output.
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post #20 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I think you'll find any crossovers that are made out of coils and resistors are passive crossovers.
By active, I meant that my crossover is a self-powered stand-alone unit.
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There are standalone digital crossovers on the market like the MiniDSP they take an analog RCA input but digitise it to perform whatever task you set it to do then reconverts back to analog at output.
Okay, that's not what I thought you were talking about with regards to your receiver. It's still doing the signal splitting in analog .FYI, I've never been one of those people who bought new equipment just for the fun of it. Of course I bought a CD player as soon as they came out, but my amps and preamp are about 30 years old. However, if there's a crossover that does the signal splitting completely digitally, that would definitely be something that I'm interested in.
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post #21 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 06:21 PM
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TF as an FYI, every recent AVR I have seen the schematic of does all the processing in the digital domain, with analogue sources going through an ADC. Digital sources are processed natively.
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post #22 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by trackfan View Post

By active, I meant that my crossover is a self-powered stand-alone unit.

Maybe you are getting confused between active and passive subwoofers? What exact kind of crossover do you have? Are you talking about the ones that are inbuilt in the subwoofer?


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Okay, that's not what I thought you were talking about with regards to your receiver. It's still doing the signal splitting in analog .FYI, I've never been one of those people who bought new equipment just for the fun of it. Of course I bought a CD player as soon as they came out, but my amps and preamp are about 30 years old. However, if there's a crossover that does the signal splitting completely digitally, that would definitely be something that I'm interested in.

The MiniDSP is a active digital crossover. It doesn't use coils and capacitors to create resistance that varies with frequency like a passive crossover does. It's just that they need to be inserted in the analog line whereas an AVR has the advantage of receiving a digital signal, doing all of the processing in digital, and only converting to analog at the last stage before outputting to the speakers.
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post #23 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 09:52 PM
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Behringer DCX 2496 is a very affordable and extremely flexible digital crossover that accepts spdif input at a very reasonable price.
Had it for years before I switched to Hypex amps.
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post #24 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

Maybe you are getting confused between active and passive subwoofers? What exact kind of crossover do you have? Are you talking about the ones that are inbuilt in the subwoofer?
No. I'm talking about a crossover component that's between the preamp and the power amps.
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post #25 of 64 Old 03-19-2013, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by trackfan View Post

No. I'm talking about a crossover component that's between the preamp and the power amps.

Which is? Can you describe it, name it, got a photo of it?
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post #26 of 64 Old 03-20-2013, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trackfan View Post

By active, I meant that my crossover is a self-powered stand-alone unit.

Maybe you are getting confused between active and passive subwoofers? What exact kind of crossover do you have? Are you talking about the ones that are inbuilt in the subwoofer?


Quote:
Okay, that's not what I thought you were talking about with regards to your receiver. It's still doing the signal splitting in analog .FYI, I've never been one of those people who bought new equipment just for the fun of it. Of course I bought a CD player as soon as they came out, but my amps and preamp are about 30 years old. However, if there's a crossover that does the signal splitting completely digitally, that would definitely be something that I'm interested in.

The MiniDSP is a active digital crossover. It doesn't use coils and capacitors to create resistance that varies with frequency like a passive crossover does. It's just that they need to be inserted in the analog line whereas an AVR has the advantage of receiving a digital signal, doing all of the processing in digital, and only converting to analog at the last stage before outputting to the speakers.

The DigiFP I/O card gives the MiniDSP digital inputs and outputs so that they can be inserted into digital lines.

http://www.minidsp.com/onlinestore/detail/14-io-cards/flypage/86-digi-fp?sef=hcfp

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post #27 of 64 Old 03-20-2013, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

Which is? Can you describe it, name it, got a photo of it?
Here's the link for it.

http://www.audiocontrol.com/product.aspx?d_id=16463&p_id=171119&

Based on what I've gathered so far, it might be time for me to replace it with one of the newer digital crossovers. It's amazing how you can miss out on the advancements being made in one hobby when you spend years sidetracked with other hobbies.
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post #28 of 64 Old 03-20-2013, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by trackfan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

Which is? Can you describe it, name it, got a photo of it?
Here's the link for it.

http://www.audiocontrol.com/product.aspx?d_id=16463&p_id=171119&

Based on what I've gathered so far, it might be time for me to replace it with one of the newer digital crossovers. It's amazing how you can miss out on the advancements being made in one hobby when you spend years sidetracked with other hobbies.

Products like the MiniDSP and Behringer DQX 2496 or DCX 2496 may provide you with a more flexible, powerful solution.
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post #29 of 64 Old 03-20-2013, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Products like the MiniDSP and Behringer DQX 2496 or DCX 2496 may provide you with a more flexible, powerful solution.
It seems that there are many MiniDSP products to choose from on their rather confusing website. Would you mind providing a link to the product you would recommend?
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post #30 of 64 Old 03-20-2013, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kraut View Post

Behringer DCX 2496 is a very affordable and extremely flexible digital crossover that accepts spdif input at a very reasonable price.
Had it for years before I switched to Hypex amps.
May I ask why you switched to plate amps? I'm trying to avoid having to run a power cord to my subwoofer, but I'm open to new ideas?
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