sub 100w 2-channel setup recommendations - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by macddmac View Post

AFIK the 390DD has bass management capability whereas the 375 doesn't which would come in handy since you're subwoofer shopping.
I believe the hk 990 does as well and also has a form of room correction. Both seem to be well received by the review community ( for what that's worth)
Cheers, Mac

As much as I love NAD gear (I've owned a lot of it over the years) I think the HK 990 may be the best choice if you intend to eventually integrate a subwoofer as the included room-correction will help w/ the all-important blending of the mains w/ the subs. ..Alternatively, the NAD 375 does have pre-out/main-in jacks that would allow you to add an external room-correction device (there are a few out there...) at a later date. ..But that would add upwards of another $1000 to the overall cost making the HK 990 a better deal.
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post #62 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by syd123 View Post

I think the HK 990 may be the best choice if you intend to eventually integrate a subwoofer as the included room-correction will help w/ the all-important blending of the mains w/ the subs.
Is the room correction you are talking about the "Room EQ" feature? It looks like both the HK990 and the NAD 390DD have it:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1401403/best-room-eq-value
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post #63 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by shawndo View Post

Is the room correction you are talking about the "Room EQ" feature? It looks like both the HK990 and the NAD 390DD have it:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1401403/best-room-eq-value

Yes they both seem to have it, but as I don't know all that much about such systems I don't know how they compare to one another. ..That said, I'm not crazy about how the NAD uses an iPhone as the calibration mic, rather than a hard-wired MIC as is used by the HK. ..I've downloaded a decibel meter app for my iPhone and it gives different readings each time I play a tone at the same volume, so I don't know how it could be accurate enough for this purpose. ..The mic in an iphone is tiny and is maybe a $.25 component?

Here's my take on these room correction systems... I can see how they'd make a real improvement in how your system sounds but I can also imagine that for many people, based on the particulars of their room, etc.. they wouldn't much of difference at all. ..So it seems like a risk to base your entire purchase decision on whether or not a particular amp has it or not. ..If you're buying from a local shop, see if they'll lend you one of these amps to see for yourself if the correction makes much of a difference. If it doesn't make much or any difference, or if the difference doesn't suit you, then you can give that particular feature little weight in your decision.

Another observation: ..though I do love NAD gear, I don't like how NAD has aggregated all of the usual controls found on a typical integrated amp (bass/treble/balance/mono, etc..) into a weird click/scroll knob. ..This is just my personal taste here, but i very much prefer having buttons and knobs on the faceplate rather than scroll through menus. The HK is much more traditional in this sense. ..If I was ok w/ scrolling through menus, I'd probably just get any one of the hundreds of AVR's that can be had for little money. ...This is partly why I spent quite a bit of money on a McIntosh integrated amp. ..Though I don't believe it sounds better than an AVR, or the 390DD, I do love it's old-school buttons and knobs. ..The NAD C375bee is much more like the Mac. ..ANd having owned one for about 1yr, I can tell you it's a powerhouse and is very well built.
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post #64 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 08:19 AM
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Just finished reading about the NAD including the room EQ/
Bass mgmt. from what I understood about the nad is that it
Doesn't do the room EQ. You would need to set-up/ run a
Program like REW to identify room issues. From there you
Can cut/boost frequencies to deal with peaks/nulls.

Subwoofer integration seems pretty simple though.

The NAD is definitely pretty trick. It's got a learning curve
To it and has a LOT of features that left me scratching my
Head;)
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post #65 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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You can use any SPL meter for the setup. They used an iphone as an example. They talk about it here at 2:25:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCYqCWYZErg#t=2m25s

I think I am still leaning towards the MF M6i or the NAD 375DAC. The more I read, the more the 390DD seems a bit too new. I don't really want to be on the bleeding edge in this case.
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post #66 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndo View Post

You can use any SPL meter for the setup. They used an iphone as an example. They talk about it here at 2:25:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCYqCWYZErg#t=2m25s

I think I am still leaning towards the MF M6i or the NAD 375DAC. The more I read, the more the 390DD seems a bit too new. I don't really want to be on the bleeding edge in this case.

sheesh... my bad. ..Of course, I should have quickly realized that. ..For some reason I thought that the iphone was somehow interacting with the 390, but I see now that it just gives readings and the user inputs the changes manually. Thanks for clarifying.

I can appreciate that not everyone shares my belief regarding the necessity for tone controls, but the lack of a balance control on the MF really gives me pause. ..I listen to a lot of music late at night when I have to turn the volume way way down. ..You'd be surprised by how many analog volume devices (alps, for example..) loose their tracking accuracy and you end up with one speaker still playing when the other is not. ..So if you're using this as a desktop system (where music is often played quite low) give thought to whether or not this matters. And be sure to test the demo unit at your local shop to check this. Because without a balance control, you won't be able to correct this. ...Gear manufacturers will have you believe that balance controls are destructive to the signal but this is utter total non-sense. If this was true how would it be possible for studio mixing boards to have literally hundreds of volume sliders and switches. ..If each eroded the signal, there would be no signal left to record. ..The high end mfgs. that eschew balance (and tone) controls do so as a way to simplify engineering and cut costs then tell us it's for better sound to justify.
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post #67 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 09:59 AM
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Shawndo, I use an old C372 in a 2.1 system. I've tried external crossovers of several flavors, ended up foregoing one altogether (I use sealed mains of the pro studio monitor type that won't go to pieces if fed full range signals, unlike your new KEFs, which I would treat with care if I were you). If I had to do it over, I would consider the C390DD (or the HK990, or an AVR) over the C372 for just these reasons. I'm not putting down the big NAD, it does exactly what it's supposed to, cleanly, with a seemingly bottomless well of power, and has lots of analog connectivity to allow incorporating all sorts of external analog processors to try to kludge things into shape, if you really want to futz around with that. The C390DD brings to the table much more practicality than the old-school NAD integrateds.

The HK 990 does have Audyssey, not sure which version, and comes with built in test tones and a mic. With the NAD you need REW or an Omnimic to determine what's going on (hand held spl meters are rather crude for this), as Grasshopper stated above, and then manually correct for it using the NAD's bass eq features, which are elaborate enough to address most users needs.

If you persist with going with one of the old-school NAD integrateds, I don't believe you need one as big and powerful as the C375. The C326BEE might suffice, and the C356BEE surely would. It's still my feeling that you shouldn't pay for watts you won't need or can't use. Did I mention the C375 is freakin' huge and tends to run hot?
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post #68 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 10:52 AM
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All due respect to the OP but he seems to be more concerned with the
Physical aesthetics of the amp rather than functionality.

It has been determined that the KEF speakers would best be
Utilized with a subwoofer. The OP has mentioned that indeed
He would be looking into a sub for his system.

Neither the MF or the NAD 375 have bass mgmt or room
Correction features. As far as bass mgmt a sub with speaker
Level inputs could be utilized.

Some good integrateds w/bass mgmt have been mentioned- outlaw rr2150,
HK 990, and the NAD 390. Several posters have mentioned
Using a 5.1 AVR which would of course have room correction
AND bass mgmt for a subwoofer.

Basically we are all trying to help get the OP set-up with a good
System he will enjoy for years to come.

In the end it is up to the OP.
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post #69 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

All due respect to the OP but he seems to be more concerned with the
Physical aesthetics of the amp rather than functionality.

It has been determined that the KEF speakers would best be
Utilized with a subwoofer. The OP has mentioned that indeed
He would be looking into a sub for his system.

Neither the MF or the NAD 375 have bass mgmt or room
Correction features. As far as bass mgmt a sub with speaker
Level inputs could be utilized.

Some good integrateds w/bass mgmt have been mentioned- outlaw rr2150,
HK 990, and the NAD 390. Several posters have mentioned
Using a 5.1 AVR which would of course have room correction
AND bass mgmt for a subwoofer.

Basically we are all trying to help get the OP set-up with a good
System he will enjoy for years to come.

In the end it is up to the OP.

..There's nothing wrong w/ being concerned about an amps aesthetics or ergonomics. ..And traditional integrateds still enjoy an advantage in both these areas (IMHO, of course). ..And if the OP selects an integrated, like the C375 or C365, that has pre-out/main-in jacks, he can always add an outboard bass management/ room correction system later. ..And remember, this is being used for music, not movies that have all sorts of low, rumbling special effects. ..The KEF's shouldn't have any difficulty being run full-range within their power-handling limits. ..In fact, that is how they're intended to be run in a typical 2.0 system. For years I had PSB Stratus Minis and Spica TC-50's, both of which had smaller drivers, and they sounded great w/out subs.
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post #70 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 11:55 AM
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I basically agree with what you are saying. the concerns that have been mentioned
is that the KEF's have a -3db freq response of 79 hz.. These speakers really could
benefit from a sub. Yes, bass mgmt and room correction could be implemented
with the pre-out/main-in jacks,although that would definitely add a "clutter" factor to the
OP's set up. Remember the system will be residing on top of a dresser!

While I dont doubt the KEF's sound great, i think i would have preferred (for myself)
a bookshelf with a bit better freq response in the lower freq.

I dont remember the OP's preference in music though.
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post #71 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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As far as music goes, my favorite albums are from Faith No More, Rodrigo Y Gabriela, CCR, Deadmau5,Miles Davis, Chopin, Death... so it's a mix

If I feel like I need bass afterwards, I think I can go with the SVS SB12-NSD's. Those should fit next to the dresser, but I'd have to move the floor lamp somewhere. (i.e. space is tight) There is still alot of reading between now and then..

I think you're going over my head with the "bass mgmt and room correction" stuff. I suppose it is a way to do that Room EQ thing that is built into the 390DD and HK990 in other amps, but i guess I have more reading to do on that topic.
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post #72 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndo View Post

I think you're going over my head with the "bass mgmt and room correction" stuff. I suppose it is a way to do that Room EQ thing that is built into the 390DD and HK990 in other amps, but i guess I have more reading to do on that topic.

This will probably be the most important reading you do. Great sound is 95% room/speakers/their interaction. The C390, HK, and AV options provide tools to manage this interaction, where the old school integrateds don't. Toole's book on acoustics covers everything and is about the best overall resource to answer all your questions. If you really want to geek out with it, get a calibrated mic and REW to put what you read into context (while you dial in your rig for ultimate performance..it's all about the music in the end). There are also good articles on setup of bass management here and there. You chose some excellent speakers, so that part is covered.
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post #73 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 03:39 PM
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It is possible to dim the display on an AVR, but not sure it can be turned off completely unless in Pure Direct mode, which disables room correction.

I understand the priority for aesthetics, but here's the thing. The LS50 rolls off abruptly at about 100Hz. To gain full value from your system you're going to need tight integration and precise management with a subwoofer. In addition, your close placement to the wall is another room characteristic that needs to be addressed. Whether this can be accomplished with separates I haven't a clue, but I suspect finding all of the equipment necessary is going to be both costly and not without some sacrifice in aesthetics.

Or you can return them and bring home Mackie, Adam Audio, Genelec or Focal and be done. biggrin.gif

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post #74 of 74 Old 05-11-2013, 03:41 PM
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By the way Shawn, welcome to the third part of AVS, the science! wink.gif

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