New to 2 Channel; need receiver/amp advice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Just looking to power a pair of Energy RC 70s that I got from the big Fry's sale. Will use a subwoofer next to them.

Haven't read enough in this sub-forum to know better, but so far as as powering a 2 channel system, will there be any noticeable difference in sound quality between any of the following?

- Getting a HK 3490
- 2 channel pre/pro and amp separates system from Emotiva (UPS-1 + XPA-200)
- Getting a used Denon 3805/3806

Thanks.
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post #2 of 26 Old 06-13-2013, 12:53 AM
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Because of subwoofer integration I'd choose option 3. You can also consider a newer model AVR such as the Denon 1913, which would add network capability (the ability to control from a smartphone/tablet) and onboard music streaming services such as Pandora and Spotify. Both great features, but they may not be that important to you. The 1913 would be priced about the same as the 2 channel HK 3490.
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post #3 of 26 Old 06-13-2013, 01:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestion. I was just figuring that an older 3805/3806 would have a better amplifier section than the newer, lower end Denon like the 1913 and that I could always connect a networking device to go along with it.

But really, the main question I have is how much of a difference in sound quality are you going to see using these different amplifiers. So for example, if separates at this level aren't going to make much of a difference, then I'd probably pass on the Emotiva setup.
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post #4 of 26 Old 06-13-2013, 02:19 AM
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None, but good luck getting the worms back in the can biggrin.gif

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post #5 of 26 Old 06-13-2013, 03:36 AM
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None, but good luck getting the worms back in the can biggrin.gif
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Because of subwoofer integration I'd choose option 3. You can also consider a newer model AVR such as the Denon 1913, which would add network capability (the ability to control from a smartphone/tablet) and onboard music streaming services such as Pandora and Spotify. Both great features, but they may not be that important to you. The 1913 would be priced about the same as the 2 channel HK 3490.

+1 on the AVR. You'll get better sub integration.
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post #6 of 26 Old 06-13-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
will there be any noticeable difference in sound quality between any of the following?
No, not a real difference. If you did a casual comparison, you might think you hear a difference. But cover them up and try to guess which is which by sound alone, and you will realize how alike they are.
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I was just figuring that an older 3805/3806 would have a better amplifier section than the newer, lower end Denon like the 1913
If by "better," you mean "noticeable difference in sound quality," this is almost certainly not the case.
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post #7 of 26 Old 06-14-2013, 05:12 PM
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But really, the main question I have is how much of a difference in sound quality are you going to see using these different amplifiers.

I also 2nd the suggestion of just getting a decent AVR.

I own an assortment of dedicated 2ch preamps and poweramps and AVRs and the best audio quality I've achieved from trying all different combinations is with the AVR. Proper bass management is a huge benefit. Plus the AVR doesn't make an audible hum like the big old poweramps do. The quieter I have my listening room the better the low level detail is. And also being able to adjust the volume from one track to the next with a remote from my listening chair is another big benefit that I wouldn't want to be without now. Many 2ch amps don't even offer that possibility.

If I put the AVR into 'pure direct' mode then it sounds just the same as the 2ch amps. There is no real sound degradation from using an AVR. You get to gain improvements over 2ch gear once AVRs are set up correctly. Of course if a AVR is set up incorrectly/poorly, then yes, you could degrade the audio quality.

..
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post #8 of 26 Old 06-15-2013, 12:20 AM
 
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For further reading on 2 channel audio let me suggest a forum where 2 channel is the main focus unlike here where it's just one section among many. Audiokarma.com, lots of good info and people that live and breathe stereo systems.
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post #9 of 26 Old 06-15-2013, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

For further reading on 2 channel audio let me suggest a forum where 2 channel is the main focus unlike here where it's just one section among many. Audiokarma.com, lots of good info and people that live and breathe stereo systems.

replace the com with an org.
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post #10 of 26 Old 06-15-2013, 08:03 AM
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You're getting fine advice here, no reason to go elsewhere.

+1 kiwi, I just upgraded from a 2 channel to an AVR for my music setup, with proper crossover my system sounds much better than it was previously capable of. Additionally, now that I've experienced remote control via my android devices there's no way I would do without. My old Onkyo TX-8050 2 channel also had this capability.

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post #11 of 26 Old 06-15-2013, 10:22 AM
 
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You're getting fine advice here, no reason to go elsewhere.

+1 kiwi, I just upgraded from a 2 channel to an AVR for my music setup, with proper crossover my system sounds much better than it was previously capable of. Additionally, now that I've experienced remote control via my android devices there's no way I would do without. My old Onkyo TX-8050 2 channel also had this capability.

No reason to go elsewhere? In 2 1/2 days this thread has ten replies, and many threads get less in this section. The Audiokarma site has way more activity in 2 channel audio and home theater is but one small section. More data and information is better than less.

I upgraded my 2 channel system from small cheap bookshelf speakers and an avr to a system that retails for just over 10 grand. When I was researching on this site, the typical advice was, "all electronics sound the exact same, so buy a $50 DVD player for your source." Since I already had a$50 DVD player and a $400 unit to compare, I found that advice to be wrong.
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post #12 of 26 Old 06-15-2013, 10:38 AM
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You're getting fine advice here, no reason to go elsewhere.

I upgraded my 2 channel system from small cheap bookshelf speakers and an avr to a system that retails for just over 10 grand. When I was researching on this site, the typical advice was, "all electronics sound the exact same, so buy a $50 DVD player for your source." Since I already had a$50 DVD player and a $400 unit to compare, I found that advice to be wrong.

This is the biggest annoyance for me on this forum. The majority of people think once u hit an MSRP price point of ~$500 all AVRs are the same and it's a good idea to recommend someone something that is "good enough" and not good. The past 2-3 years this forum has turned into "here's the cheap way to do it. If you spend more you are stupid and wasting your money"

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post #13 of 26 Old 06-15-2013, 10:56 AM
 
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And that is why I eventually found places like Audiokarma where many schools of thought exist and others usually do not try to force their opinions on you.
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post #14 of 26 Old 06-15-2013, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Feel free to add more in this thread, obviously, but thanks to all for the responses and advice. It's appreciated.
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post #15 of 26 Old 06-15-2013, 09:36 PM
 
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Well the only item I paid retail for was the Oppo 95. The speakers I got used for half of retail and the amp was 25% off, but thanks for your impressions.

As for the advice given, it's simple. More advice is better than less, visiting more than one forum might help out.
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post #16 of 26 Old 06-16-2013, 08:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

For further reading on 2 channel audio let me suggest a forum where 2 channel is the main focus unlike here where it's just one section among many. Audiokarma.com, lots of good info and people that live and breathe stereo systems.
Would you care to share some technically useful info on 2 channel you've gained from those places?
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post #17 of 26 Old 06-16-2013, 08:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

No reason to go elsewhere? In 2 1/2 days this thread has ten replies, and many threads get less in this section. The Audiokarma site has way more activity in 2 channel audio and home theater is but one small section. More data and information is better than less.

I upgraded my 2 channel system from small cheap bookshelf speakers and an avr to a system that retails for just over 10 grand.
For you, it's all about the quantity. rolleyes.gif
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When I was researching on this site, the typical advice was, "all electronics sound the exact same, so buy a $50 DVD player for your source."
I must have missed those. frown.gif Would you mind quoting a few of them?
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Since I already had a$50 DVD player and a $400 unit to compare, I found that advice to be wrong.
How did you set up the comparison? I'm asking because it matters a lot. Lets hear it.
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post #18 of 26 Old 06-16-2013, 09:00 AM
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Would you care to share some technically useful info on 2 channel you've gained from those places?

Audiokarma?? Nothing to see there...just a bunch of enthusiasts trying to help each other. I go there sometimes, but I miss the smugness and insults, so I come back here and get my fix...I think I'm good now, good luck with these guys runnin'
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post #19 of 26 Old 06-16-2013, 09:04 AM
 
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to force their opinions on you.
You mean like this?:
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One unit is 150 wpc, the other 50. Is can't be an apples to apples comparison. I was merely comparing the sound signature of each preamp section, but I believe you prefer the sort of blind testing that is popular on this particular site. Fair enough.
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post #20 of 26 Old 06-16-2013, 02:38 PM
 
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but I miss the smugness and insults, so I come back here and get my fix...
I must have overlooked those. frown.gif Would you mind quoting a few of them?
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post #21 of 26 Old 06-16-2013, 03:11 PM
 
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Audiokarma?? Nothing to see there...just a bunch of enthusiasts trying to help each other. I go there sometimes, but I miss the smugness and insults, so I come back here and get my fix...I think I'm good now, good luck with these guys runnin'

Thanks for that, nice to see that Audiokarma has a better rep. I don't think I'll need luck with these "yutes"(sorry for the old My Cousin Vinny reference), sometimes it's just best to ignore them and say you piece.
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post #22 of 26 Old 06-16-2013, 03:52 PM
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diomania, do you ever actually add anything constructive to these conversations other than just trolling?
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post #23 of 26 Old 06-18-2013, 09:26 AM
 
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When I was researching on this site, the typical advice was, "all electronics sound the exact same, so buy a $50 DVD player for your source."
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Originally Posted by rntlee View Post

but I miss the smugness and insults, so I come back here and get my fix...
Only if you guys can quote some.
Subjectivists and evidences are like water and oil. They don't mix. rolleyes.gif
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post #24 of 26 Old 06-18-2013, 10:22 AM
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How can you overlook your own posts?

No problem finding insults and cheap shots there!
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I must have overlooked those. frown.gif Would you mind quoting a few of them?
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post #25 of 26 Old 06-18-2013, 10:45 AM
 
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How can you overlook your own posts?

No problem finding insults and cheap shots there!
Do you mean posts like these?:

"These bozos repeatedly make comments to the effect that the amplifier is a very minor factor in the overall sound quality of the audio system."

"Some of these morons even use DVD players as their main source for playing audio discs, and the circuitry of these things is mainly composed of video chips and the audio circuits are a cheap afterthought. What a joke!"

Except that those aren't made by me. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1216978/what-cdp-is-good-for-vocal-jazz-music-please-give-an-advice/90#post_17979233
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post #26 of 26 Old 06-18-2013, 06:24 PM
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Only if you guys can quote some.
Subjectivists and evidences are like water and oil. They don't mix. rolleyes.gif

Ummm, what do "subjectivists", whomever that is, have to do with it??
Now, if someone could show me the "ignore" button....
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Energy Rc 70 Floorstanding Speaker Black Ash Veneer , Harman Kardon Hk 3490 120 Watt Stereo Receiver , Denon Avr 3805 , Denon Avr 3806 Av Receiver , Denon Avr 1913 Receiver

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