Room Correction for 2-channel system - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 08-09-2013, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been pondering room correction for a 2-channel setup, I have my yamaha amp in there now and the YPAO is no longer functional so it doesn't sound so hot, the setup was just temporary to see if I like enough to start buying components and I do so I am going to start with some Legacy Focus SE speakers. I realize I could use a Denon AVR-X4000 with its Audyssey and that receiver has low level outputs to run to separate amps for the speakers. I am wondering what other methods folks use? Are there preamps with Audyssey or some other room correction solution built-in?
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post #2 of 32 Old 08-10-2013, 04:27 PM
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I'd be interested in an inexpensive room correction device to place in between the pre and post amps of my HK 3490.
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post #3 of 32 Old 08-14-2013, 08:46 AM
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post #4 of 32 Old 09-25-2013, 09:26 AM
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Does somebody need a Behringer DEQ-2496 in really sweet/new condition?

Just so happens.....I have one tucked away with nothing to do!

Shoot me a PM.....I can work with you on a nice deal.

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post #5 of 32 Old 10-02-2013, 12:38 PM
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Integrated room correction is inaccurate. You can go manual. True RTA Analyzer software and a decent mic. I've use True RTA and a Sony ecm-907.

True RTA
http://www.trueaudio.com/rta_abt1.htm


All in all EQs don't really help. Try different cables and speaker placement.
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post #6 of 32 Old 10-03-2013, 05:51 AM
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The fashion is to try and substitute room correction programs for proper placement of the main speakers; this is the worst thing you can do IMO.

There is no substitute for getting the main speakers placed correctly in the room, WITHOUT using any room correction at all.

JOB ONE in getting things to sound right is to move your two main speakers around until the bass linearity and imaging are the best.

A few inches can make a lot of difference.

No software can make the speakers sound right if they are in the wrong location. All of them also do digital signal processing which tends to degrade the sound.

Any processor you put in the signal path is likely to reduce sound quality to some degree.

It may be able to do something once they ARE in the correct location, but even that is not always true. Sometimes it is worse than nothing.

It may be a bit tedious to keep testing different locations for your speakers, but it is the ONLY way to get the best sound quality in your room.
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post #7 of 32 Old 10-03-2013, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweaked05 View Post

I'd be interested in an inexpensive room correction device to place in between the pre and post amps of my HK 3490.

Check out the MiniDSP web site..

http://www.minidsp.com/
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post #8 of 32 Old 10-04-2013, 04:30 AM
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I would invest in some room treatments such as absorbing panels on the side walls and front walls, bass traps in the corners, and a decent AVR that has room correction software.

Larry, you have a PM from me!
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post #9 of 32 Old 10-04-2013, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorrowsbishop View Post

All in all EQs don't really help. Try different cables and speaker placement.

Room EQ makes a significant difference... Speaker placement is crucial to enhancing SQ, but changing cables... don't lie to people rolleyes.gif

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post #10 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry7995 View Post

I have been pondering room correction for a 2-channel setup, I have my yamaha amp in there now and the YPAO is no longer functional so it doesn't sound so hot, the setup was just temporary to see if I like enough to start buying components and I do so I am going to start with some Legacy Focus SE speakers. I realize I could use a Denon AVR-X4000 with its Audyssey and that receiver has low level outputs to run to separate amps for the speakers. I am wondering what other methods folks use? Are there preamps with Audyssey or some other room correction solution built-in?


Room EQ can also take away from your sound and speakers. What I recommend is going with GIK Acoustics and getting proper room treatment. Their package starts at $500.00. Well worth the money.
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post #11 of 32 Old 10-06-2013, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I am going to get a 6x10 area rug for that room and some acoustic panels. My new latest project is a 2-channel listening room in the vaulted area of the house, everything sounds better in there. Going to base that on a pair of Legacy Focus SE speakers, a couch with recliners at both end and go from there! Heading over to Rocky Mountain Audio Fest next weekend to get some ideas! Being a Fed, I can't afford to buy anything until I know I am going to get paychecks again...
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post #12 of 32 Old 10-06-2013, 05:12 PM
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Can you do us all a favor and put down your favorite 3 rooms and give us your thoughts after the show? Definately check out Vapor Audio's room.
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post #13 of 32 Old 10-12-2013, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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See what I can do, I am getting ready to head over their soon.
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post #14 of 32 Old 10-16-2013, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry7995 View Post

I have been pondering room correction for a 2-channel setup, I have my yamaha amp in there now and the YPAO is no longer functional so it doesn't sound so hot, the setup was just temporary to see if I like enough to start buying components and I do so I am going to start with some Legacy Focus SE speakers. I realize I could use a Denon AVR-X4000 with its Audyssey and that receiver has low level outputs to run to separate amps for the speakers. I am wondering what other methods folks use? Are there preamps with Audyssey or some other room correction solution built-in?


Room EQ can also take away from your sound and speakers.

Anything done poorly can take away from SQ.

Statements like "Room EQ can also take away from your sound and speakers" can be true, but are often false, Thus, they are generally unhelpful.

Seems like this thread is spinning into a battle between system eq and room acoustics.

Taking either side is like flunking an IQ test, because you need both to have really good SQ no matter what your room is or how good your speakers are.

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What I recommend is going with GIK Acoustics and getting proper room treatment. Their package starts at $500.00. Well worth the money.

Brands, schmands!

One of the most significant costs of effective sonic treatments on the scale of most listening rooms is shipping costs. If you can learn enough to effectively use products you can obtain from a local supply house (who probably also sells thermal insulation) you will obtain your most cost effective solution. Rooms are enough different that I don't know how well a prepackaged solution will do.
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post #15 of 32 Old 10-16-2013, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry7995 View Post

I am going to get a 6x10 area rug for that room and some acoustic panels. My new latest project is a 2-channel listening room in the vaulted area of the house, everything sounds better in there. Going to base that on a pair of Legacy Focus SE speakers, a couch with recliners at both end and go from there! Heading over to Rocky Mountain Audio Fest next weekend to get some ideas! Being a Fed, I can't afford to buy anything until I know I am going to get paychecks again...

Rugs are about the worst sound treatments there are. To be walkable they have to be too thin to be anything like broadband absorbers.
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post #16 of 32 Old 10-16-2013, 08:33 PM
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Room EQ makes a significant difference... Speaker placement is crucial to enhancing SQ, but changing cables... don't lie to people rolleyes.gif

Correction, cables doesn't help with receivers but it does with real audio equipment. Cables aren't an accessory they are components. Most audio stores will let you borrow cables the hear the difference. It an easy sale.
As for me EQ's don't help.
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post #17 of 32 Old 10-16-2013, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tomorrowsbishop View Post

Correction, cables doesn't help with receivers but it does with real audio equipment. Cables aren't an accessory they are components. Most audio stores will let you borrow cables the hear the difference. It an easy sale.
As for me EQ's don't help.

 

Cables are simple conductors. Any cable, suitably matched to the application, is sonically indistinguishable for any other. Admittedly, overpriced (and sometimes grossly overpriced) bundles of copper strands wrapped in insulation may be an easy sale; the sale isn't due to any audible characteristic. They're selling status symbols.

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post #18 of 32 Old 10-16-2013, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorrowsbishop View Post

Correction, cables doesn't help with receivers but it does with real audio equipment. Cables aren't an accessory they are components. Most audio stores will let you borrow cables the hear the difference. It an easy sale.

As for me EQ's don't help.


Evidence please.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!

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post #19 of 32 Old 10-16-2013, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorrowsbishop View Post

Correction, cables doesn't help with receivers but it does with real audio equipment. Cables aren't an accessory they are components. Most audio stores will let you borrow cables the hear the difference. It an easy sale.

As for me EQ's don't help.

Cables are simple conductors. Any cable, suitably matched to the application, is sonically indistinguishable for any other. Admittedly, overpriced (and sometimes grossly overpriced) bundles of copper strands wrapped in insulation may be an easy sale; the sale isn't due to any audible characteristic. They're selling status symbols.

+1000

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post #20 of 32 Old 10-17-2013, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tomorrowsbishop View Post

Correction, cables doesn't help with receivers but it does with real audio equipment. Cables aren't an accessory they are components. Most audio stores will let you borrow cables the hear the difference. It an easy sale.

Copper is copper. You aren't hearing anything different and this advice is simply misleading. You can buy an expensive cable because it looks cool, but if you think it sounds different than you are a victim of the placebo effect.
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post #21 of 32 Old 10-17-2013, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorrowsbishop View Post

Correction, cables doesn't help with receivers but it does with real audio equipment. Cables aren't an accessory they are components. Most audio stores will let you borrow cables the hear the difference. It an easy sale.

This is one thing about "audiophile" culture in general -- and sites like this in particular -- that sometimes makes me wanna abandon this hobby.

If you wanna believe that swapping cables provides audible differences while those same differences are somehow (perhaps magically) immeasurable, then that's your business. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. But to come here and recommend that kinda hokum to complete strangers? To encourage them to spend their money that way? That's just bizarre. Unethical, in my mind.

Some people I get. For instance, I get that phonies like Robert Harley and Harry Pearson are running a magazine and will say anything to perpetuate the culture and make a buck; I think most of us understand their game up front. But what would be your incentive for promoting the scam? Is proselytizing the religion that important to you?
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post #22 of 32 Old 10-19-2013, 11:32 PM
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Correction, cables doesn't help with receivers but it does with real audio equipment. Cables aren't an accessory they are components. Most audio stores will let you borrow cables the hear the difference. It an easy sale.
As for me EQ's don't help.

I take it you sell cables? Something you pick up at Home Depot and re-brand at 4000% mark-up no doubt.
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post #23 of 32 Old 10-20-2013, 12:28 AM
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See what I can do, I am getting ready to head over their soon.

Hello Larry, can you give us your review of the top 3 rooms at the show? biggrin.gif
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post #24 of 32 Old 10-20-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorrowsbishop View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

Room EQ makes a significant difference... Speaker placement is crucial to enhancing SQ, but changing cables... don't lie to people rolleyes.gif

Correction, cables doesn't help with receivers but it does with real audio equipment.

Please provide an example that illustrate your exceptional claim above, with some good reliable, bias controlled listening tests to back it up.
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Cables aren't an accessory they are components.

I guess that depends on how you define the words. They are obviously rather critical because if they don't effectively interface the equpment - the results are pretty obvious - no sound at all!
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Most audio stores will let you borrow cables the hear the difference. It an easy sale.

It sounds like you've used this pitch many times with profitable results. If we wished to recommend the store you appear to work at, what is its name and location?
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As for me EQ's don't help.

What do you mean by "help"?
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post #25 of 32 Old 10-20-2013, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry7995 View Post

See what I can do, I am getting ready to head over their soon.

Hello Larry, can you give us your review of the top 3 rooms at the show? biggrin.gif

Please explain to me why we should be interested in rooms at hi fi shows?

It is well known that the sound quality of audio systems particularly their speakers is profoundly affected by the rooms they play in.

Since few if any of us live in hotel rooms, why would the sound of stereo gear playing in hotel rooms matter to us?
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post #26 of 32 Old 10-20-2013, 10:35 PM
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I take it you sell cables? Something you pick up at Home Depot and re-brand at 4000% mark-up no doubt.

I don't sell cables and I don't get them from home depot. I own mostly Kimber Kable AG interconnect and Kimber Kable 8tc and and 8AG speaker cables. If sound like you are a car audio guy.
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post #27 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 02:09 AM
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Piezo tweeters. biggrin.gif
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post #28 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Please explain to me why we should be interested in rooms at hi fi shows?

It is well known that the sound quality of audio systems particularly their speakers is profoundly affected by the rooms they play in.

Since few if any of us live in hotel rooms, why would the sound of stereo gear playing in hotel rooms matter to us?

Speakers by itself still plays a big part in the sound coming from the rooms.
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post #29 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Please explain to me why we should be interested in rooms at hi fi shows?

It is well known that the sound quality of audio systems particularly their speakers is profoundly affected by the rooms they play in.

Since few if any of us live in hotel rooms, why would the sound of stereo gear playing in hotel rooms matter to us?

Speakers by itself still plays a big part in the sound coming from the rooms.

Once the speakers being considered reach certain performance levels that are not uncommon among modern high performance speakers, that big part gets to be a lot the same among different speakers.

Level matched blind speaker comparisons can surprize many.

Last time I went to a high end hi fi show, I was dismayed by how many of the speakers being offered were much alike - 2 way speakers based on a 5-6 inch woofer and a dome tweeter. If the drivers and crossover are good, these speakers are not going to sound worlds apart different. There were more than a few samples that seemed to have dodgy crossovers.

I think you might be surprised if you ever actually moved speakers around in a room, or moved them to other rooms.

Notice, you can't do this by reading articles on the internet, you actually have to get out of your chair and do a little manual labor! ;-)

Relevant articles of a educational and factual nature:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1325085/blind-testing-speakers-8o

with Linkwitz' response:

http://linkwitzlab.com/frontiers_6.htm#Z%20-
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post #30 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

...Seems like this thread is spinning into a battle between system eq and room acoustics.

Taking either side is like flunking an IQ test, because you need both to have really good SQ no matter what your room is or how good your speakers are...

Yep.
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Please explain to me why we should be interested in rooms at hi fi shows?

It is well known that the sound quality of audio systems particularly their speakers is profoundly affected by the rooms they play in.

Since few if any of us live in hotel rooms, why would the sound of stereo gear playing in hotel rooms matter to us?

I hear that a lot, and it just doesn't make sense to me. Hotel rooms have walls, ceilings, carpet and furniture, just like listening rooms. What's the difference? There are good and bad sounding hotel rooms, just as there are good and bad sounding listening rooms. If the vendor really cares about how his product is going to sound at a show he will take the time to optimize the room and speaker placement, or insist on another room if it's a real stinker. Horrible sounding rooms are the exception at most shows, mediocre sounding speakers are the rule. If you think auditioning speakers at shows is of little or no value, how DO you determine how a given speaker sounds? Do you make your decisions based on what you read on line or in the glossy mags? Does your local retailer have every speaker you are interested in stock and on display in an optimized room in the perfect location? Or are you so wealthy that you simply have them all brought into your room a pair at a time for your personal evaluation. I evaluate speakers by going to shows and listening to them. Pretty weird, huh?
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