Vintage Receiver Aficianados - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 08-29-2013, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys. Like many I use to own a beauty of a Marantz (a 2285b) that I purchased in my youth and foolishly sold 15 or so years later. Well, after a bit of searching I finally snagged a 2330b during my search to replace the 2285b. It seems fully functional save for a couple of lamps out, all inputs work along with everything else, volume knob has the usual scratchiness on occasion which can easily be dealt with.

After the purchase I decided to have it brought up to snuff by a professional, I honestly think I could do it but am short on time and don't want to chance flubbing things up. I contacted Tom Williams only to be amazed at his backlog, not really interested in waiting that long. A couple of other members from Audio Karma kindly replied to my inquiries as to what they do, costs, terms, lead times, etc. Most of them said they go through and replace many of the parts due to age, then I called my local stereo shop and asked them about it since dropping it off versus shipping is an attractive option to me.

The local repair / restoration guy suggested I drop it off and he would go through it and only replace what was broken / not working. He said you could negatively affect the sound quality these old units are so loved for by going in and switching out parts or in effect "modding" them. Short of replacing all the lamps and cleaning switches / pots and dealing with anything not working that was all he recommended doing.

I just got confused by some guys saying "take care of everything at once" so you don't have to open the case for 20 years versus the "don't fix it if it ain't broke" approach. I don't mind spending the extra money to have it dealt with correctly, just not sure which way is "correctly".

Like I said, I'm a noob on the restoration end. Thanks for any help / advice in advance.....Mark.
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post #2 of 9 Old 08-29-2013, 04:24 PM
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If this is a piece that you truly love and plan to keep for long time then I say go all in and replace all the caps and other potentially failing parts. Adjust your bias and offset, clean your controls, replace lamps, etc. and have wonderful restored piece that is working at it's best. I have a few vintage receivers and had this done to my Sansui 9090. It sounds absolutely amazing. I don't buy into this "change the sound you like so much thing". You're really just bringing it up to spec - and with many of these wonderful pieces - what a wonderful spec it is. Just my two cents.
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post #3 of 9 Old 08-29-2013, 05:17 PM
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I agree with Tiga. If you are going to go in there, or have someone do it for you, you might as well replace the capacitors and resistors in the various circuits. As long as you replace them with the same value caps and resistors, you aren't going to change the sound. What you will be doing is making the various circuits in the unit more robust.

Without replacing aging caps, especially, you are leaving the circuits vulnerable to possible shorting or failure and having to return the receiver for servicing again. Why not do it all at once, assuming it isn't cost prohibitive?
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post #4 of 9 Old 08-30-2013, 03:29 AM
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Get it all done at one if you intend keeping it for any period of time. Many of these units are absolute mongrels to work on and can take a lot of time to dismantle and rebuild and that can add a lot of cost if paying for someone to do the resto for you, so you don't really want to pay that twice.

As for changing parts such as caps/resistors out with new versions (same type and value) changing the sound for the worse, well, put simply, it's a crock. Newer parts typically perform much better than 70's item, have better tolerance, specs, heat ratings and the like; electro caps have improved enormously over the years. I have done a number of restos professionally over the years and been able to compare before/after by doing one channel at a time, and apart from the removal of obvious defects like noise, whether continuous or intermittent and distortion, there has been no difference. Many people like to romanticise these older units into something they are not, and for some that become almost evangelical. Ignore them. Many of these are beautiful units aesthetically, but I can beat any of them in performance with something more modern.

I have three units in the queue for a full resto/modification: Sherwood S5000 tuner, Fisher 800B receiver, and a Marantz 2285B. The Fisher just needs some mild work and repairs to the aesthetics, as the previous owner repainted it with gold hammertone, very unevenly and thickly. The Fisher is getting a new hardwood sleeve, removing the kludge 6L6 modification, and then hot rodding it (100% restorable to stock). Having read over the service manual for the Marantz, I can see it taking most of a weekend to complete, so most likely a wet one next winter.
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post #5 of 9 Old 08-30-2013, 03:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies guys. I has occurred to me why pay multiple times to have it dealt with but wasn't sure.
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post #6 of 9 Old 08-30-2013, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coreseller View Post

Hi Guys. Like many I use to own a beauty of a Marantz (a 2285b) that I purchased in my youth and foolishly sold 15 or so years later. Well, after a bit of searching I finally snagged a 2330b during my search to replace the 2285b. It seems fully functional save for a couple of lamps out, all inputs work along with everything else, volume knob has the usual scratchiness on occasion which can easily be dealt with.

After the purchase I decided to have it brought up to snuff by a professional, I honestly think I could do it but am short on time and don't want to chance flubbing things up. I contacted Tom Williams only to be amazed at his backlog, not really interested in waiting that long. A couple of other members from Audio Karma kindly replied to my inquiries as to what they do, costs, terms, lead times, etc. Most of them said they go through and replace many of the parts due to age, then I called my local stereo shop and asked them about it since dropping it off versus shipping is an attractive option to me.

The local repair / restoration guy suggested I drop it off and he would go through it and only replace what was broken / not working. He said you could negatively affect the sound quality these old units are so loved for by going in and switching out parts or in effect "modding" them. Short of replacing all the lamps and cleaning switches / pots and dealing with anything not working that was all he recommended doing.

I just got confused by some guys saying "take care of everything at once" so you don't have to open the case for 20 years versus the "don't fix it if it ain't broke" approach. I don't mind spending the extra money to have it dealt with correctly, just not sure which way is "correctly".

Like I said, I'm a noob on the restoration end. Thanks for any help / advice in advance.....Mark.

My take on old equipment is that if a part hasn't failed after 30 years, it probably will last for another 30. I can definitely see doing what it takes to restore it to original specification.

Thing is I don't know how many "restoration eggspurts" have the resources it takes to bench test a piece of gear like a 2230 to original spec. How many even have a service manual? BTW SM PDFs are readily available, but I'm still asking how many of these restorers use one and have the equipment it takes to verify performance.

I suspect a lot of the people who recommend mass changes are taking that route as an alternative to having the resources to test the piece properly. Problem is that there are many a slip involved with mass changes, and changing everything is not a substitute for having the proper resources to test the piece out properly.

Restoring a receiver to original sound quality is not like restoring a car to concours condition because concours condition is based on visual indications, while sound quality is based on things that are invisible to the eye.
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post #7 of 9 Old 08-30-2013, 04:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Arny. One reason I was hesitant to post such a message (mainly on other forums) was that there are quite a few members who actually do such restorations who are more than frequent visitors to those forums. Not saying anything bad about them, just knew I'd likely hear mostly one side of the issue.
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post #8 of 9 Old 08-30-2013, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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One repair shop's services, Arny, Does this sound right?:



Overview of completed restoration service:

Replaced out of specification capacitors, resistors, and transistors using quality components comparable or better than the originals

Confirm all power supply rails for proper voltages as detailed by the service manual

Replaced all power supply, main amp, phono stage, protection circuit and preamp capacitors, using quality capacitors by Panasonic (FM and FC series) or elna silmic II

Replace the filter capacitors with exact capacitance (or higher) replacements. Replacement filter capacitors are expensive ~ other restoration services oftentimes skip this step, We will not restore a unit without restoring the filter capacitors as part of the service. Continued Reliability demands their replacement

Replace the untrustworthy trimming potentiometers in the amplifier section. Most often that there are two trimmers on each channel

Reflow any weak, heated or stressed solder joints

Replace the protection relay with a new Omron model. This is a must as relay failure is common over years of use

Clean or lubricate all controls, switches, and RCA input jacks with appropriate, quality contact cleaner

Clean the inside and outside of the unit and applied oxidation preventive solutions to maintain the health of the metal parts

Make all internal adjustments (bias, dc offset, dolby, etc.) according to manufacture specifications

Replace all fuse and bi-pin lamps with new, same value lamps

Replace the old faded and yellowed vellum paper with new 24lb vellum

Check the frequency response of the unit through the standard audio spectrum and ensured that it meets or exceeds the manufacturer's specifications.

Ensure that equal input signals to both channels produced equal output signals.

Test the unit in our lab for at least ten hours under controlled listening test conditions

Offer one year warranty on all services performed
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post #9 of 9 Old 08-30-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coreseller View Post

One repair shop's services, Arny, Does this sound right?:



Overview of completed restoration service:

Replaced out of specification capacitors, resistors, and transistors using quality components comparable or better than the originals

Confirm all power supply rails for proper voltages as detailed by the service manual

Replaced all power supply, main amp, phono stage, protection circuit and preamp capacitors, using quality capacitors by Panasonic (FM and FC series) or elna silmic II

Replace the filter capacitors with exact capacitance (or higher) replacements. Replacement filter capacitors are expensive ~ other restoration services oftentimes skip this step, We will not restore a unit without restoring the filter capacitors as part of the service. Continued Reliability demands their replacement

Replace the untrustworthy trimming potentiometers in the amplifier section. Most often that there are two trimmers on each channel

Reflow any weak, heated or stressed solder joints

Replace the protection relay with a new Omron model. This is a must as relay failure is common over years of use

Clean or lubricate all controls, switches, and RCA input jacks with appropriate, quality contact cleaner

Clean the inside and outside of the unit and applied oxidation preventive solutions to maintain the health of the metal parts

Make all internal adjustments (bias, dc offset, dolby, etc.) according to manufacture specifications

Replace all fuse and bi-pin lamps with new, same value lamps

Replace the old faded and yellowed vellum paper with new 24lb vellum

Check the frequency response of the unit through the standard audio spectrum and ensured that it meets or exceeds the manufacturer's specifications.

Ensure that equal input signals to both channels produced equal output signals.

Test the unit in our lab for at least ten hours under controlled listening test conditions

Offer one year warranty on all services performed
That's a reasonable list, but it fails to mention any RF work that might be needed on the tuner.
The 'ten hours of controlled listening' is laughable.
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