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post #1 of 25 Old 12-07-2013, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Wrong forum. Clearly.

"Not all that counts can be measured,Not all that matters can be counted"

Cheers.
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post #2 of 25 Old 12-07-2013, 05:03 PM
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they didn't make an impact to me the way the Devialet has

Of course they didn't.
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Full disclosure I'm now an authorized Devialet dealer
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post #3 of 25 Old 12-07-2013, 05:24 PM
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When I hooked it up to my not so expensive speakers my jaw dropped in astonishment of how much an improvement that was made just changing to the Devialet.

"Jaw-dropping improvement"? And why would that be, exactly? What's it do that any other DAC/amplifier combo (and we can all name hundreds) doesn't do already?
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post #4 of 25 Old 12-07-2013, 07:58 PM
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"Jaw-dropping improvement"? And why would that be, exactly? What's it do that any other DAC/amplifier combo (and we can all name hundreds) doesn't do already?

Its best to be heard yourself. There is nothing out there like it I'm sure you can mix and match stuff but its not the same I'm speaking from experience here. The ADH amplification concept has alot to do with it for one.

Given that the world is full of amplifiers that can pass a straight wire bypass test, what is left for an amplifier to do better in terms of just sound quality?
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post #5 of 25 Old 12-07-2013, 09:58 PM
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Just because I'm a dealer doesn't mean my opinion is invalid does it?

No but it should be embarrassing that an audio expert doesn't understand hearing bias or simply ignores it. "Jawdropping?" Please, it should embarrass you.
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post #6 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 12:14 AM
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And all that beauty for a mere 15 grand.

Definitely not my cup of tea. I rather buy another fishing boat for that money...or upgrade from mine.
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post #7 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
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And all that beauty for a mere 15 grand.

Definitely not my cup of tea. I rather buy another fishing boat for that money...or upgrade from mine.

I hear you its not priced for everyone. But the new models start at $6,495 retail, far more affordable with the same basic features.
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post #8 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 04:59 AM
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Given that the world is full of amplifiers that can pass a straight wire bypass test, what is left for an amplifier to do better in terms of just sound quality?

Well for one its not just an amplifier I assume you're not familiar? Its an Amp with an integrated DAC with a Class A/ Class D Hybrid setup along with a network streamer so its not a traditional amplifier at all. I guess the closest thing you can come up with would be a nice Preamp , 24/192 DAC , Connected to a Class D amp and a device that can stream re-clocked 24/192 audio files wireless from a PC/MAC. But that would be several pieces of gear with their own power supplies and a decent amount of cables in between them and you still wouldn't have the Class A/D Hybrid core. I think as an all in one box with its minimalist design and upgradeability alone sets it apart from the rest of the market never mind just the sound quality which is a personal thing.

If you have time check out this white paper it would explain it better then I can. Although its discussing the previous discontinued model called the D-Premier that is slightly different the basic design and concept is there.

http://fr.devialet.com/assets/Uploads/D-Premier-White-Paper-Munich.pdf

If you haven't noticed I'm sitting here thinking that you deflected, and did not answer my question.

Of course, that was my expectation! ;-)
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post #9 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 05:06 AM
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And all that beauty for a mere 15 grand.

Definitely not my cup of tea. I rather buy another fishing boat for that money...or upgrade from mine.

More than that, its selling the dream that everybody is only one very good amplifier away from a brilliant system.

That's not unique because others are selling the dream that everybody is only one very good DAC away from a brilliant system.

A lot of people around here seem to believe that it takes more than an amplifier or a DAC to make a brilliant system, and a really good room and really good speakers are near the top, or at the top of the agenda. ;-)

On balance the technical performance of the Devalet seems very good per the extant Stereophile review:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/devialet-d-premier-da-integrated-amplifier-measurements

That my friends is how a Class D amplifer should be done!

"Other than its slightly anomalous behavior via WiFi, the Devialet D-Premier's measured performance is a testament to what can be obtained with switching-amplifier technology. However, sustained high-power operation into speakers with an impedance of 4 ohms or below is best avoided"

I would say that this is the Halcro of Class D. ;-)
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post #10 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 06:53 AM
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Hearing bias? How exactly did you get to that conclusion? Bud let me tell you the only thing I'm embarrassed for is your parents. There is no need to try to come at me because you don't agree on something I said it better left not saying anything at all or at least explain yourself. I simply came to share that I like the product based on my experience in my own personal time. This isn't a for sale ad last time I checked. So again how exactly am I biased?

At least now we know that you don't understand hearing bias. So you can replace the term embarrassed with ignorant. Sorry, I assumed someone in the audio business would know what I'm talking about. My bad.
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post #11 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 06:55 AM
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Well for one its not just an amplifier I assume you're not familiar? Its an Amp with an integrated DAC with a Class A/ Class D Hybrid setup along with a network streamer so its not a traditional amplifier at all. I guess the closest thing you can come up with would be a nice Preamp , 24/192 DAC , Connected to a Class D amp and a device that can stream re-clocked 24/192 audio files wireless from a PC/MAC. But that would be several pieces of gear with their own power supplies and a decent amount of cables in between them and you still wouldn't have the Class A/D Hybrid core. I think as an all in one box with its minimalist design and upgradeability alone sets it apart from the rest of the market never mind just the sound quality which is a personal thing.

If you have time check out this white paper it would explain it better then I can. Although its discussing the previous discontinued model called the D-Premier that is slightly different the basic design and concept is there.

http://fr.devialet.com/assets/Uploads/D-Premier-White-Paper-Munich.pdf

I thought you said you were expressing personal opinions and that you weren't intending the post to be a sales pitch. Same is true of this post?
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post #12 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 09:58 AM
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No but it should be embarrassing that an audio expert doesn't understand hearing bias or simply ignores it. "Jawdropping?" Please, it should embarrass you.

Hearing bias? How exactly did you get to that conclusion? Bud let me tell you the only thing I'm embarrassed for is your parents. There is no need to try to come at me because you don't agree on something I said it better left not saying anything at all or at least explain yourself. I simply came to share that I like the product based on my experience in my own personal time. This isn't a for sale ad last time I checked. So again how exactly am I biased?

Don't tell me you've never heard of the McGurk effect?

Jaw dropping eh?rolleyes.gif

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post #13 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 11:21 AM
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Its best to be heard yourself. There is nothing out there like it I'm sure you can mix and match stuff but its not the same I'm speaking from experience here. The ADH amplification concept has alot to do with it for one.

This isn't a satisfactory explanation. The performance of DACs and amplifiers can be evaluated by signals in versus signals out, and the "big three" are (and always will be) frequency response, noise and distortion. These attributes (above certain thresholds) are what we actually hear. All DACs and all modern, solid-state amplifiers that I know of have long since conquered the challenges of the "big three." The means by which they do that, whether by "ADH" (a marketing label) or anything else, is irrelevant -- the objective is still signal in versus signal out.

The absolute best we could hope for from this kinda gear (and even here I'm reaching) would be some subtle improvement that might be detectable to some listeners some of the time on certain passages of certain music. Maybe. Probably not, but maybe.

So this notion of a "jaw dropping" improvement (which is tantamount to having verified the existence of Bigfoot) begs a simple question: How? Tell us how the digital-to-analog conversion and amplification are any better than anything else. This means show us the measurements. And even then, tell us how or why the human ear would even hear such nuances.

(And yes, in deference to what others have already pointed out, tell us how listening bias, however unintended, wouldn't be a far better explanation for what you experienced.)
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post #14 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 11:41 AM
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Cast your lines matey's! The same fisherman are on board again. tongue.gif
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post #15 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't tell me you've never heard of the McGurk effect?

Jaw dropping eh?rolleyes.gif

Yea ok rolleyes.gif
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This isn't a satisfactory explanation. The performance of DACs and amplifiers can be evaluated by signals in versus signals out, and the "big three" are (and always will be) frequency response, noise and distortion. These attributes (above certain thresholds) are what we actually hear. All DACs and all modern, solid-state amplifiers that I know of have long since conquered the challenges of the "big three." The means by which they do that, whether by "ADH" (a marketing label) or anything else, is irrelevant -- the objective is still signal in versus signal out.

The absolute best we could hope for from this kinda gear (and even here I'm reaching) would be some subtle improvement that might be detectable to some listeners some of the time on certain passages of certain music. Maybe. Probably not, but maybe.

So this notion of a "jaw dropping" improvement (which is tantamount to having verified the existence of Bigfoot) begs a simple question: How? Tell us how the digital-to-analog conversion and amplification are any better than anything else. This means show us the measurements. And even then, tell us how or why the human ear would even hear such nuances.

(And yes, in deference to what others have already pointed out, tell us how listening bias, however unintended, wouldn't be a far better explanation for what you experienced.)

Right so all amplifiers sound exactly the same got it smile.gif
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post #16 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought you said you were expressing personal opinions and that you weren't intending the post to be a sales pitch. Same is true of this post?

Yea there goes my plan to get rich of this post. You got me :roll eyes:

Die thread. Trolls are on the loose around here.
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post #17 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 04:08 PM
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Yea ok rolleyes.gif
Right so all amplifiers sound exactly the same got it smile.gif

I didn't actually say that; you did. But I did make some perfectly fair, reasonable requests that you summarily circumvented with a flippant reply. So I'll ask again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownstone322 

Tell us how the digital-to analog conversion and amplification are any better than anything else. This means show us the measurements. And even then, tell us how or why the human ear would even hear such nuances.

^ That's where we separate facts from puffery. And if you think you're being "trolled," please point that out too and explain why and how.
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post #18 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 04:17 PM
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What a beat down. That was fun to read.

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post #19 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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What a beat down. That was fun to read.

What beat down? I left the thread because I have better things to do then argue with people about the fact some audio setups can sound better then others I didn't sign up for that I came to share an experience that is all. There are other threads and places to go to argue whether or not if you can hear the difference between one amp or another thats a mere matter of opinion not a fact. But if you think its a beat down and call it fun to **** on someones thread well then I guess this really should be called loser forums. Personally If I thought all amplifiers sound the same because I read so on some blog or some scientist told me so well I'd hate life and I wouldn't spend my days trying to convince that they do on an audio forum. In the meantime I'll just continue enjoying my Devialet thanks.
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post #20 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brownstone322 View Post

This isn't a satisfactory explanation. The performance of DACs and amplifiers can be evaluated by signals in versus signals out, and the "big three" are (and always will be) frequency response, noise and distortion. These attributes (above certain thresholds) are what we actually hear. All DACs and all modern, solid-state amplifiers that I know of have long since conquered the challenges of the "big three." The means by which they do that, whether by "ADH" (a marketing label) or anything else, is irrelevant -- the objective is still signal in versus signal out.

The absolute best we could hope for from this kinda gear (and even here I'm reaching) would be some subtle improvement that might be detectable to some listeners some of the time on certain passages of certain music. Maybe. Probably not, but maybe.

So this notion of a "jaw dropping" improvement (which is tantamount to having verified the existence of Bigfoot) begs a simple question: How? Tell us how the digital-to-analog conversion and amplification are any better than anything else. This means show us the measurements. And even then, tell us how or why the human ear would even hear such nuances.

(And yes, in deference to what others have already pointed out, tell us how listening bias, however unintended, wouldn't be a far better explanation for what you experienced.)

I didn't come here to explain anything to anyone so I'm not sure why you're seeking an explanation. You seem to have all the answers already and frankly I wouldn't have even commented if I were you. Whether or not you believe that the Devialet can sound better then any other amp/dac is irrelevant to me. I already own it and I'm not here to sell it, I have real local clients that asked me about it so I took on the line and my clients pay me so if I really wanted to make a point about what sounds better and/or if Its possible to sound better to someone I'd tell them schedule an appointment and pay me for my time like every other client. I made a post incase someone was interested in the product itself and its features I might answer those questions as I had time but not one person in this thread has had a real question about the product itself only question my opinion that it sounds amazing and thats not what I'm hear for. The first person to respond basically made it seem like I came here to sell and the only reason I said I liked it is because I'm a dealer and thats absurd I'm a dealer for the other products as well and I like them for what they are but I especially like the functionality ,sound quality and design as a package in the Devialet.

How that turned into a back and forth about whether it sounds better then other amps is beyond me. Just seems some people had too much time on their hands.
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post #21 of 25 Old 12-08-2013, 08:27 PM
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What a beat down. That was fun to read.

...... I left the thread.......

doesn't look like you went very far.

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post #22 of 25 Old 12-09-2013, 06:01 AM
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I didn't come here to explain anything to anyone so I'm not sure why you're seeking an explanation. You seem to have all the answers already and frankly I wouldn't have even commented if I were you. Whether or not you believe that the Devialet can sound better then any other amp/dac is irrelevant to me. I already own it and I'm not here to sell it, I have real local clients that asked me about it so I took on the line and my clients pay me so if I really wanted to make a point about what sounds better and/or if Its possible to sound better to someone I'd tell them schedule an appointment and pay me for my time like every other client. .

IMO the statement " I'm not here to sell it" gets immediately err, modified by the presence of what appears to be a company logo and clear mention of "clients" etc.

Usually buying stock is one of the first steps of becoming a franchised dealer...

If the equipment doesn't sound better, what is the point?
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post #23 of 25 Old 12-09-2013, 06:54 AM
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Wrong forum. Clearly.

"Not all that counts can be measured,Not all that matters can be counted"

Cheers.

Agreed. They will welcome you with open arms at audio asylum.
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post #24 of 25 Old 12-09-2013, 04:27 PM
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What beat down? I left the thread because I have better things to do then argue with people about the fact some audio setups can sound better then others I didn't sign up for that I came to share an experience that is all. There are other threads and places to go to argue whether or not if you can hear the difference between one amp or another thats a mere matter of opinion not a fact. But if you think its a beat down and call it fun to **** on someones thread well then I guess this really should be called loser forums. Personally If I thought all amplifiers sound the same because I read so on some blog or some scientist told me so well I'd hate life and I wouldn't spend my days trying to convince that they do on an audio forum. In the meantime I'll just continue enjoying my Devialet thanks.

When did you leave the thread?

Am I imagining your posts? Seems you're doing exactly what you're claiming you're not doing.

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post #25 of 25 Old 12-09-2013, 05:20 PM
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?
I left the thread because I have better things to do then argue with people about the fact some audio setups can sound better then others

I seriously doubt that there is anybody who has posted on this thread who would argue against the fact some audio setups can and generally do sound better then others.
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I didn't sign up for that

If you feel that you were asked to argue against people who disagreed with the fact some audio setups can and generally do sound better then others, then you have completely and totally missed the meaning of every post on this thread.

In lawyer-speak I am willing to stipulate that some audio setups can and generally do sound better then others. I'm sure that every other person who posted to this thread, and I've known some of them for a number of years, believes in their heart and spends a certain amount of time and money pursuing the some audio setups can and generally do sound better then others.
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I came to share an experience that is all.


I have to admit that I've bought and installed so many amplifiers in the forms of integrated amps, basic power amps, AVRs and receivers that I don't consider the act that you put into your first post and then deceptively removed from it. and which I (possibly mistakenly remember) to be about putting a new amp in your system to be all that remarkable.
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There are other threads and places to go to argue whether or not if you can hear the difference between one amp or another thats a mere matter of opinion not a fact.

Again, I'm willing to stipulate that some amplifiers sound different. I even co-wrote an article named "Some Amplifiers Do Sound Different" that was published in Hi-Fi News & Record Review, Dec 1982.

That some but not all amplifiers sound different is not just merely a matter of opinion but is a scientific fact that can be reliably determined.
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Personally If I thought all amplifiers sound the same because I read so on some blog or some scientist told me so well I'd hate life and I wouldn't spend my days trying to convince that they do on an audio forum. I

IMO it seems that you may be self-destructively obsessed with the idea that all amplifiers must sound different because you make it sound like your life would have no value if it weren't true. To a normal person whether amplifiers sound the same or different is just something that is true or not and of minor importance. I am far more concerned with the welfare of my wife and family, for example to the extent that I would not let such a trivial thing affect my attitude towards life or my daily demeanor.
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