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post #1 of 160 Old 01-15-2014, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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The P5 has now been out for a month or so. Demand is high and units are selling like crazy. It has excellent features such as built in crossovers and bass management. There are still no reviews on the net other than basic overviews. Has anyone heard this thing yet? How is the SQ? Does it lean more towards Mac smooth or Krell lean and clean? How good is it for $1100.00????? It looks fantastic.



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post #2 of 160 Old 01-16-2014, 05:04 AM
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Parasound Owners thread...page 54...post 2694

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post #3 of 160 Old 01-16-2014, 07:20 AM
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It is very pretty. I would assume that it is competently designed and has no sound of its own so it shouldn't matter that someone has "heard" it since there shouldn't be anything to hear. If it has the connectivity you need and a price you can handle, I would think it should be just fine.
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post #4 of 160 Old 01-31-2014, 12:15 PM
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Purchased on a month ago and have about 50 hours on it. SQ is not the issue, its the features I really like. I run two tube amps through it in parallel. The features are great and the bass management is excellent with my Velodyne sub. Wanted something that had a nice preamp section for my Rega.

This is an excellent unit and I have had several conversations with Richard Schram of Parasound. They hit this one out of the park for the price point.
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post #5 of 160 Old 02-01-2014, 06:15 AM
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How good is it for $1100?

I tried one and did not think it sounded very good, but I was comparing it to a much more expensive unit.

There's not much available in a dedicated preamp that sounds really good to me at that price level. The Vincent is the only one I would recommend.

On the other hand, you can buy a Musical Fidelity M3i Integrated Amplifier, which sounds much better, for $1500, with a 90-watt per channel amplifier included.

There are several good integrated amplifiers in that price range that sound better IMO (Arcam, Creek, etc.)
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post #6 of 160 Old 02-01-2014, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

How good is it for $1100?

I tried one and did not think it sounded very good, but I was comparing it to a much more expensive unit.

There's not much available in a dedicated preamp that sounds really good to me at that price level. The Vincent is the only one I would recommend.

On the other hand, you can buy a Musical Fidelity M3i Integrated Amplifier, which sounds much better, for $1500, with a 90-watt per channel amplifier included.

There are several good integrated amplifiers in that price range that sound better IMO (Arcam, Creek, etc.)

So, despite the vanishingly low numbers, you are able to "hear" preamplifiers?
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post #7 of 160 Old 02-01-2014, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

How good is it for $1100?

I tried one and did not think it sounded very good, but I was comparing it to a much more expensive unit.

There's not much available in a dedicated preamp that sounds really good to me at that price level. The Vincent is the only one I would recommend.

On the other hand, you can buy a Musical Fidelity M3i Integrated Amplifier, which sounds much better, for $1500, with a 90-watt per channel amplifier included.

There are several good integrated amplifiers in that price range that sound better IMO (Arcam, Creek, etc.)

I am most interested in what you are specifically comparing it to? Price irrelevant. Please elaborate on the differences and be specific.
I am also considering the Cary SLP03 but that Psound looks delightful.

And please ignore the "They all sound the same" group. They do not all sound the same.......Example: Mcintosh= smooth sonic flood. Krell= lean clean bass monger.

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post #8 of 160 Old 02-01-2014, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

And please ignore the "They all sound the same" group. They do not all sound the same.......Example: Mcintosh= smooth sonic flood. Krell= lean clean bass monger.
Whenever I read those two sides, one side posts evidence and the other side doesn't. Why?
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post #9 of 160 Old 02-01-2014, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

I am most interested in what you are specifically comparing it to? Price irrelevant. Please elaborate on the differences and be specific.
I am also considering the Cary SLP03 but that Psound looks delightful.

And please ignore the "They all sound the same" group. They do not all sound the same.......Example: Mcintosh= smooth sonic flood. Krell= lean clean bass monger.

Obviously you haven't compared them with a bias controlled test.
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post #10 of 160 Old 02-01-2014, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

I am also considering the Cary SLP03 but that Psound looks delightful.

I just bought a Cary SLP 03 that is replacing a Parasound 2100. Very limited listening so far but what I listened to I'm very impressed. One of my go to demo discs is the Patricia Barber Verse SACD. I've listened to this SACD many times and it sounded outstanding smile.gif.

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post #11 of 160 Old 02-01-2014, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Obviously you haven't compared them with a bias controlled test.

This is an age old debate on AVS. We will have to agree to disagree.
If someone cant hear the difference between a Mac and a Krell I do not know what to say. They are very different animals to me.

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post #12 of 160 Old 02-01-2014, 06:41 PM
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It seems to me that a true pre-amplifier is designed to be transparent unless you're using a tube preamp like the Cary above. The P5 does look nice and the fact that you can adjust the crossover for the mains is a plus (unlike my 2100 but 80Hz works just fine) along with the built-in DAC and supposedly better phono section.

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post #13 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

This is an age old debate on AVS. We will have to agree to disagree.
If someone cant hear the difference between a Mac and a Krell I do not know what to say. They are very different animals to me.

What I'm telling you is that you can't hear the difference between them. Bring them and I will prove it to you.
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post #14 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 04:52 AM
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Fmw, you keep saying the same thing over and over. Why do t you publish your test methodogy, tests, testers, etc? If you want people to understand what you are saying, it has to be laid out in a step by step method.

A large part of science is a well written report. smile.gif
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post #15 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

This is an age old debate on AVS. We will have to agree to disagree.
If someone cant hear the difference between a Mac and a Krell I do not know what to say. They are very different animals to me.

Yes. Newer guy here to avs, and yes...this just baffles me.
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post #16 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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You know, I switched out an NAD 163 for an Anthem AVM50 for a NAD M15. They all sounded different. Every single other component and variable remained identical. I'm not the only one that heard the difference. Everyone who has heard each of these components can hear differences. Especially the difference the Master series made. You can chart and graph all you want, Some of these components sound more alike than others but some are quite different. Of course this is my observation and opinion. We can sit here and call each other wrong till China occupies the US. We are simply not going to agree on this.

So here we go. A P5 thread de railed into an "it all sounds the same" thread.......

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post #17 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 09:01 AM
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I compared the P5 to an Audio Research LS16.

The sound quality of the AR was much more natural and realistic sounding; much closer to the actual sound of the musical instruments and voices.

As just one example, the AR can do a pretty good job of reproducing the huge dynamic range of a concert grand piano, while the sound of the P5 was more like hearing it from two rooms away behind a curtain; unclear and lacking dynamic range.

Of course, one may not hear these differences nearly as well unless some very good speakers are being used.

FMW will tell you that a Motel 6 clock radio sounds just like a $10,000 high-quality stereo system, because they all just use transistors and all transistors sound the same.

If I told him that I like the Blue Corvette better than the white one, he would insist that I can't possibly tell any difference without a double-blind bias-controlled test.

There is no doubt in my mind when I clearly hear or see a distinct difference, and if he thinks something "proves" differently, that is his foolishness, which I cannot relate to at all.
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post #18 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGibby View Post

Yes. Newer guy here to avs, and yes...this just baffles me.
Let me say this to you as one newer guy to another, it baffled me too, until I did some search and read. Try it.
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post #19 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 09:19 AM
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I have been involved in audio and engineering design for 50 years, and I can tell you that there is no substitute for actually LISTENING to music through various sound systems, particularly some very good ones that will demonstrate the clarity and dynamics that the vast majority of sound systems completely lack.

You can get good sound with all sorts of audio designs, or tubes, or transistors, or op-amps, but what looks good on paper to even an experienced engineer does not always perform well.

I am constantly amazed at products that are relatively expensive and don't sound very good at all..

Don't these people LISTEN to the stuff before they put it on a production line?

I can understand CHEAP products that don't sound all that good, but expensive gear??

"search and read" is a very good idea, but it only gets you to where you can find the front steps. It takes a LOT more experience before you get through the door.



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Let me say this to you as one newer guy to another, it baffled me too, until I did some search and read. Try it.
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post #20 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

FMW will tell you that a Motel 6 clock radio sounds just like a $10,000 high-quality stereo system, because they all just use transistors and all transistors sound the same.

If I told him that I like the Blue Corvette better than the white one, he would insist that I can't possibly tell any difference without a double-blind bias-controlled test.

There is no doubt in my mind when I clearly hear or see a distinct difference, and if he thinks something "proves" differently, that is his foolishness, which I cannot relate to at all.

Here is a great example of not understanding the concept at all. Firstly, I've never said anything similar to a clock radio sounding like a HiFi system but let's help Mr Commy understand reality better. There are three kinds of audible differences - clearly audible, subtley audible and non existent. Like the color of a Corvette or a comparison between a clock radio and a Hi Fi system, clearly visual or clearly audible differences don't require a bias controlled test because there is no bias involved. The differences are clear. The brain is asked to make a comparison, it has no problem making the comparison and delivers the right answer every time.

When the differences become subtle to non-existent, the brain is either not always or never able to deliver a clear cut answer. It takes shortcuts and adds other stimuli to the decision - things like expectation, experience, preference etc. In these cases it deliver the right answer some of the time or it may get down to pure guesswork. The listener thinks he gets a clear answer but he gets an answer that is clouded with bias. We only discover these nearly inaudible or inaudible differences through a bias controlled test.

Everyone that has conducted bias controlled listening tests has discovered that hifi solid state preamps don't have a signature sound. Only tube preamps do. I've even owned two tube preamps that do not. This information isn't unique to my tests. It is universal among those who have conducted such tests. Those who listen with bias get al kinds of answers. Those of us who control bias get the same answer.

Those are the facts. They relate to everyone. Commy, you and I all suffer from hearing bias. It is perfectly normal. Commy has never done a bias controlled test so he doesn't understand that well designed solid state preamplifiers all sound the same because he allows bias to cloud his ability to compare. I know this because I've been where he is and have also done the bias controlled tests to correct where I've been.

The answer is very simple. Go do some bias controlled listening comparisons. I invite everyone to do it. I have no desire to keep my experience to myself. I want everyone that is willing to learn the truth. Instead of criticizing what we've done, go prove us wrong. Too difficult? Fearful of what you will learn? Just go do it.
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post #21 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

You know, I switched out an NAD 163 for an Anthem AVM50 for a NAD M15. They all sounded different. Every single other component and variable remained identical. I'm not the only one that heard the difference. Everyone who has heard each of these components can hear differences. Especially the difference the Master series made. You can chart and graph all you want, Some of these components sound more alike than others but some are quite different. Of course this is my observation and opinion. We can sit here and call each other wrong till China occupies the US. We are simply not going to agree on this.

So here we go. A P5 thread de railed into an "it all sounds the same" thread.......

So you would rather we allow people to discuss and debate fantasy without pointing out the truth? For me, all you need to do is state up front that you enjoy engaging in biased comparisons and want others with the same preference only to engage in the debate. I will gladly stay out of the thread if you do that. With no warning, I tend to debate misinformation.
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post #22 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I compared the P5 to an Audio Research LS16.

If you still have them available. Bring them with $5000. We will do a bias controlled test. If you can tell them apart consistently, I'll give you $5000. If not, you give me $5000. Since you are certain of your skill put your money where your mouth is.
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post #23 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I have been involved in audio and engineering design for 50 years, and I can tell you that there is no substitute for actually LISTENING to music through various sound systems, particularly some very good ones that will demonstrate the clarity and dynamics that the vast majority of sound systems completely lack.

You can get good sound with all sorts of audio designs, or tubes, or transistors, or op-amps, but what looks good on paper to even an experienced engineer does not always perform well.

I am constantly amazed at products that are relatively expensive and don't sound very good at all..

Don't these people LISTEN to the stuff before they put it on a production line?

I can understand CHEAP products that don't sound all that good, but expensive gear??
Pardon me but I'm still waiting for your answer on this. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1512222/parasound-p5-pre-amp#post_24301269
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"search and read" is a very good idea, but it only gets you to where you can find the front steps. It takes a LOT more experience before you get through the door.
My search and read revealed that you post a lot of misinformation in this place. That's bad for the forum.
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post #24 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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There is a huge thread on this debate. It has links and all kinds of research on the topic of "It all sounds the same".
Do we have to make every single forum a debate on this issue?



From Stereophile:
It seems reasonable to conclude from this and many similar accounts that long-term listening to an amplifier will reveal characteristics and annoyances that are extremely difficult to detect in a brief session. With this conclusion we would venture the further suggestion that one attribute of a "golden ears" listener is the ability to be annoyed in a few minutes by amplifier traits that take weeks to annoy most people.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1114207/official-all-amps-sound-the-same-thread

Cant we get back to the P5 now?

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post #25 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

There is a huge thread on this debate. It has links and all kinds of research on the topic of "It all sounds the same".
Do we have to make every single forum a debate on this issue?

From Stereophile:
It seems reasonable to conclude from this and many similar accounts that long-term listening to an amplifier will reveal characteristics and annoyances that are extremely difficult to detect in a brief session. With this conclusion we would venture the further suggestion that one attribute of a "golden ears" listener is the ability to be annoyed in a few minutes by amplifier traits that take weeks to annoy most people.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1114207/official-all-amps-sound-the-same-thread

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1114207/official-all-amps-sound-the-same-thread/1200#post_23612840
Quote:
Many (most?) of the current audio magazines, which coincidentally accept advertising dollars from makers of expensive amps, teach their readers that amps sound different. It is no wonder so many people fall for this myth, especially when what's needed to conduct the tests easily (yet properly) at home are hard to come by, such as an ABX comparator switch box and a means to precisely level match the two competing amps to a fraction of a decibel.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1425262/are-audio-companies-all-involved-in-a-huge-conspiracy/2040#post_23061629
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What his tests show is that people can not tell the difference between two decently built or better amplifiers. He can show the difference using sensitive measurement equipment, however the differences are too small for humans to detect a noticeable difference.
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post #26 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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And we continue........
There are threads for this. Take the pillow fight to the appropriate venue.
The P5 is a pre amp. This thread is for the P5. Yes?

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post #27 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 05:01 PM
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That's what we've been talking about.
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post #28 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

You know, I switched out an NAD 163 for an Anthem AVM50 for a NAD M15. They all sounded different. Every single other component and variable remained identical. I'm not the only one that heard the difference. Everyone who has heard each of these components can hear differences. Especially the difference the Master series made. You can chart and graph all you want, Some of these components sound more alike than others but some are quite different. Of course this is my observation and opinion...


Speaking of processors, can you explain how that A/B comparison was done:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

I own Anthem. I respect Anthem amplifiers. I do not respect their receivers or processors, AVM or D series, sound is sub par. They also have too many reliability issues. Also Anthem cannot compete with Mcintosh. I did an A/B comparison with Anthem D1/A5 versus Mcintosh 136/207. Speakers were Pdigm Studio 60s. The Mcintosh was smoother yet detailed. There was NO comparison regarding bass control and response. Mcintosh was in a different league all together. I would not have believed the little Paradigms to be so capable regarding bass but the Mcintosh setup brought them to life!!! I had to double check to ensure the sub was unplugged. If you are in it for sound quality do the Mcintosh, NAD M15 or Krell Foundation. From the standpoint of SQ even the NAD is far superior to anything Anthem offers. It has Less features but it rules when it comes to sound quality. Mcintosh may use a few chips from D&M but it is a different product than the Marantz.
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post #29 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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And this is where all the viewers say BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

There are different camps. You "they all sound the same." camp have your arguments. Which I respect. However, you continuously impose your will upon everyone else. You speak of truth but truth is relative. People have different opinions and observations.

Is your goal for everyone in the world to drone out and say " They are correct, it all sounds the same. just go to wal mart and buy a $100 powered sound bar.... it all sounds the same, it has transistors, look at the graph, it all sounds the same.."?????

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post #30 of 160 Old 02-02-2014, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

just go to wal mart and buy a $100 powered sound bar.... it all sounds the same, it has transistors, look at the graph, it all sounds the same.."?????
Idiotic strawman.
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