Eliminating hum on a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Turntable - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 118 Old 06-07-2014, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassLake View Post

I think the other determining factor is the resolution of your system. Either the motors are all over the map or it's people's stereo systems and their ears. I'd lean towards the later.

Hum free through Sennheiser headphones and hum free through my Usher speakers.

Almost bought a Grado until I saw they were unshielded.
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post #62 of 118 Old 07-11-2014, 04:29 PM
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I had been researching a budget turntable, and the Rega and this one seemed to have great reviews and some hum issues. I decided on the Carbon and saved several threads like this to give me a base of knowledge in case I got one with a hum. BTW, I'm a fix it type of guy, fairly handy so adding some washers is no big deal. I got the Carbon yesterday, and wow! The sound quality is jaw dropping and better to me than cd player reproduction. I do have a slight hum coming from the motor itself though and no time to do something about it until later in the weekend. Really impressed with the sound though, I'm turning into a big vinyl fan after decades of mainly cds.
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post #63 of 118 Old 07-12-2014, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I had been researching a budget turntable, and the Rega and this one seemed to have great reviews and some hum issues. I decided on the Carbon and saved several threads like this to give me a base of knowledge in case I got one with a hum. BTW, I'm a fix it type of guy, fairly handy so adding some washers is no big deal. I got the Carbon yesterday, and wow! The sound quality is jaw dropping and better to me than cd player reproduction. I do have a slight hum coming from the motor itself though and no time to do something about it until later in the weekend. Really impressed with the sound though, I'm turning into a big vinyl fan after decades of mainly cds.
It is a very good turntable that is even better with a little tweaking!
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post #64 of 118 Old 07-12-2014, 06:58 PM
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So, what RCA cables did you go with? Did you do any other upgrades?
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post #65 of 118 Old 07-13-2014, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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So, what RCA cables did you go with? Did you do any other upgrades?
I had some 24 inch Monster Cables laying around and just used those.

No other upgrades as I find the cartridge to be very good.

When the stylus needs replacing I'll upgrade to the Blue stylus.
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post #66 of 118 Old 07-18-2014, 04:49 PM
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Okay, it's been about a week now, and I've started purchasing used vinyl and testing out the Carbon. On some recordings I find it's actually better than CD reproduction. A really nice lush sound that's enticing. Absolutely no regrets for the 400 bucks. I'd been wondering about getting a used deck, but the prices people are asking on CL in my area is quite surprising, plus I'm really not sure of a good Pioneer, etc., vs an entry level one. I also had a recent negative CL experience when I drove an hour to meet a guy, and he had a different model speaker than what was in his ad.

Anyway, the hum I had wasn't noticeable at seating distance, but I installed the washers anyway. Now I can't hear it from 3 feet away and I would't be surprised if it disappears as the motor breaks in. Speaking of which, I'm not sure if the cartridge is fully broken in yet, but like I said, it's a really good sound stage already, an in the room quality to the sound that lots of cd's don't even have. Of course, some records are not the best SQ either, but over all you can color me happy!
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post #67 of 118 Old 07-18-2014, 06:00 PM
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Sounds like fun... How's the snap, crackle and pop?

I'll be back later...


1.5RQ > digits > OpenDRC-DI > DEQ2496 > DAC2 > KCT > FPB 350mcx > reQuest
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post #68 of 118 Old 07-18-2014, 06:28 PM
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There is very little. I've been reading that records should be cleaned with liquids, and on another forum they've had good success with a foaming spray, but I haven't tried any of that yet. And I have plenty of really old records that seem dirty. I'm not sure if the pop and crackle is from dirtiness or worn out grooves? Anyway, all of the cleaner records have very little of that kind of noise.

I did just buy a stylus cleaner today, and have a brush for the records, but I've been using a microfibre cloth with good success. It has longer fibres and is thicker, I bought a pack of them months ago from Costco.
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post #69 of 118 Old 07-20-2014, 03:25 PM
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I bookmarked this months ago thinking I would get a Debut Carbon, as a just-in-case thing. Well I ended up finding a nearly new RM-5.1 SE about two months ago and it has produced quite a noticeable hum once the needle was dropped ever since I hooked it up. Well I finally decided to try this fixed today (cost a whopping $0.76), and it worked so well I had to register and share. No hum, even at the speakers with the volume up!
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post #70 of 118 Old 08-02-2014, 06:11 AM
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I have been thinking about adding this 'table to my setup -- which includes a Marantz SR7008, Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 speakers, and an Outlaw LFM-1EX sub. I recently read a good review of the Debut Carbon, but one thing they found concerned me a little. I listen to a wide variety of music, but that does include a lot of hard rock. The reviewers found this table lacking a bit on the low end, so I was wondering if anyone else shares that observation. Any comments would be great...thanks!
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post #71 of 118 Old 08-02-2014, 10:07 AM
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I think I may have read that too. It's not the table so much as the cartridge, if memory serves. I haven't noticed a lack in my system, but it may be bass shy as it is since I don't have a sub. I've mostly been playing pop/rock on it, and I haven't noticed anything lacking beyond what my speakers are lacking. But I believe a better cartridge will give better bass response, now if only I could remember which site I found that on!
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post #72 of 118 Old 08-02-2014, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
I think I may have read that too. It's not the table so much as the cartridge, if memory serves. I haven't noticed a lack in my system, but it may be bass shy as it is since I don't have a sub. I've mostly been playing pop/rock on it, and I haven't noticed anything lacking beyond what my speakers are lacking. But I believe a better cartridge will give better bass response, now if only I could remember which site I found that on!

I read it here...this reviewer explicitly associated the bass response differences with the turntables themselves and NOT the cartridges. I believe he swapped them to test that very thing...

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...rbon-turntable
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post #73 of 118 Old 08-02-2014, 04:02 PM
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Well there you go, I guess you can't get everything for $399!
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post #74 of 118 Old 08-15-2014, 08:26 PM
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Just for the record, I bought a Carbon this past June, and I have no HUM at all, with headphones or through my speakers. Maybe they fixed it with later models?
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post #75 of 118 Old 08-16-2014, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tgterm View Post
I have been thinking about adding this 'table to my setup -- which includes a Marantz SR7008, Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 speakers, and an Outlaw LFM-1EX sub. I recently read a good review of the Debut Carbon, but one thing they found concerned me a little. I listen to a wide variety of music, but that does include a lot of hard rock. The reviewers found this table lacking a bit on the low end, so I was wondering if anyone else shares that observation. Any comments would be great...thanks!
Yes I read that as well and can't agree whatsoever.

The bass seems perfect for me; nice and tight and well defined.

Every bit as good as my prior setup which was a Revox Linear Tracking turntable with various generations of Ortofon Moving Coils which are know for well defined bass.

Glad to hear this "fix" works on other brands of turntables, (why wouldn't it?), and glad to hear some Debut Carbon owners have no need for the fix as their units came hum free.
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post #76 of 118 Old 08-17-2014, 06:55 PM
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I did, however, find a solution that rendered the turntable hum free either over headphones or by standing next to the turntable.

Picked up some 5/32" neoprene washers from Home Depot;http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded...5718/204225895

Used two of them under the Motor Mount screws and screwed the Motor Mount screws down snuggly onto their rubber bushings, (loosely does not work), just enough to only slightly deform the washers.
Just another "hey thanks, this worked for me" post. Picked up a Debut Carbon a couple of months ago and was surprised at the audible hum coming from the turntable itself (not through speakers) when I first turned it on. Poked around on the internet for a while and found this & a couple of other threads mentioning that the motor mount screws seemed to be the key.

Tried adjusting the screws first - loosening them definitely seemed to reduce the "direct hum" (motor vibration conducted to plinth) but also seemed to increase hum through the speakers when actually playing records. There was an optimal compromise point where neither was too bad, but then the screw head buzzed on the bracket.

Picked up 4 of the washers you suggested, added one between screw head and bracket on each side, result was that the compromise point now worked without buzzing. It's likely that further tweaking could further improve but (a) I had used up my "tweaking time budget" and had to get back to work, (b) transformer hum from my receiver was now the loudest source so I figured next step would be to do something about *that*.

Anyways, thanks !!

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Just for the record, I bought a Carbon this past June, and I have no HUM at all, with headphones or through my speakers. Maybe they fixed it with later models?
I suspect yours is just working the way it's supposed to, ie that most units are shipped with the screws tweaked so both "hum from the plinth" and "hum through the speakers" are acceptably low, but it doesn't seem to work on every unit. Could be bumps after shipping, or just insufficient margins in the design.

Or maybe some colours just hum more than others. My TT is grey...

Adding the washers seems to increase the size of that "compromise range" so hopefully it'll get added at the factory eventually. Doesn't seem to have any obvious downsides.

The whole discussion raises a couple of interesting questions:

1. Wonder what the actual mfg procedure is -- power on then adjust screws until hum from plinth "just" gets quiet ? Tighten screws to a specific (really low) torgue ? Actually playing a record then tweaking for best compromise seems pretty labour-intensive for a TT in this price range these days so maybe they err on the side of "hum from the plinth" to make sure that "hum from the speakers" isn't a problem.

2. If hum from plinth and hum through cartridge/speakers are at opposite ends of the adjustment range, does that mean the "hum through cartridge" is getting in via the motor-belt-platter path rather than the motor-plinth-platter path ?

In all cases I guess I should be saying "motor noise" rather than "hum" ?

Last edited by bridgman; 08-19-2014 at 09:14 AM.
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post #77 of 118 Old 08-19-2014, 10:49 AM
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Hi... Set up my new Debut Carbon yesterday. Very easy. Added the washers before I did anything else... Because I was in there anyway. How could it hurt?

So now?.. No hum, Rumble, or anything. Perfectly quiet. Obviously I cannot be sure if I needed to do the mod, but for $1 or thereabouts... Who cares?

Love this TT so far...
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post #78 of 118 Old 08-19-2014, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Adding the washers seems to increase the size of that "compromise range" so hopefully it'll get added at the factory eventually. Doesn't seem to have any obvious downsides.
I found that doubling up on the neoprene washers with a small metal washer on top was my final best solution.
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post #79 of 118 Old 08-19-2014, 12:42 PM
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I found that doubling up on the neoprene washers with a small metal washer on top was my final best solution.
Exactly what I did. Thanks.
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post #80 of 118 Old 08-19-2014, 03:43 PM
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I found that doubling up on the neoprene washers with a small metal washer on top was my final best solution.
Thanks

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Exactly what I did. Thanks.
Good to know. I don't get any hum, so I'm not going to mess with anything... But if the day comes I need to I'll try this first.
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post #81 of 118 Old 08-19-2014, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ViperVenom18 View Post
Thanks







Good to know. I don't get any hum, so I'm not going to mess with anything... But if the day comes I need to I'll try this first.

I'm not usually much of a tinkerer with electronics either (don't want to eff anything up...) but this was extremely easy, and really seemed to make sense...


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post #82 of 118 Old 08-21-2014, 08:47 PM
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OK, so I gave in to peer pressure and added the metal washer and a second neoprene washer to each screw. I think it's a bit quieter than the single washer, and it's definitely easier to find a quiet setting for the screws with the extra washers.

I had to turn the receiver off because its hum was making it hard to hear the motor noise

The neoprene washers are firmer than the sorbothane washer under the motor mounting plate, so when you're adjusting the screws you need to look at the sorbothane washer and stop when it's compressed just a bit, maybe 20% thinner. I tightened one of the screws too much waiting for the neoprene to compress (a single neoprene washer "squishes out from under the screw") before I noticed how much the Sorbothane was being squashed. Backed the screw off, everything seemed fine.

I put on a really quiet album -- a Metronome Hamburg pressing of Grobschnitt / Rockpommel's Land -- and confirmed that reducing the "directly audible" motor noise had not increased hum through platter & cartridge. All good.

So thanks again !

EDIT -- might have to tighten the screws up a bit more, I think the hum through platter & cartridge might have gone up a bit after all. I believe that's just an adjustment thing though, not a problem with adding the extra washers.

Last edited by bridgman; 08-22-2014 at 09:57 AM.
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post #83 of 118 Old 08-27-2014, 06:18 PM
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Works great! No more hum! Thanks to OP!
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post #84 of 118 Old 08-27-2014, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Works great! No more hum! Thanks to OP!
My calculations tell me it costs an additional .25 % above the initial investment to fix a problem common to this product.

I owned a motorcycle that from the factory was woeful (the track tests were great but it sucked as a street sport motorcycle...and I only read the track tests), and to turn it into a great bike demanded about 20% above the initial investment.

And I thought it was worth it as the end result was so much better; maybe three times as good.

A fix that is cheap and works for most is the best fix of all.

Glad it worked for you.

Did the Turntable exhibit hum before the fix or did you just do the fix before detecting hum?
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post #85 of 118 Old 08-28-2014, 05:44 AM
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Audible motor hum that could be heard through the speakers during "dead time" on the vinyl. It appears to be gone completely now. I used 3/16 washers because HD was out of the 5/32. Didn't seem to make much of a difference.
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post #86 of 118 Old 09-03-2014, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post

Marc suggested I put the Motor Mount screws back but loosely; this did nothing other than make a horrible sound when the metal armature touched the loose transport screws.

I did, however, find a solution that rendered the turntable hum free either over headphones or by standing next to the turntable.

Picked up some 5/32" neoprene washers from Home Depot;http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded...5718/204225895

Used two of them under the Motor Mount screws and screwed the Motor Mount screws down snuggly onto their rubber bushings, (loosely does not work), just enough to only slightly deform the washers.
gajCA- thanks for taking the time to share this fix with us. I seem to have misplaced my Motor Mount screws (removing them did help with the hum but didn't eliminate it). I'd like to try your fix but am not sure what size replacement screw I should be looking for. Can you or some other Debut Carbon owner take a look? Thanks again!
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post #87 of 118 Old 09-04-2014, 09:40 PM
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Final word on all the hum from pro-ject turntable

Like some other good meaning folks on here, I want to step up and try and make everything crystal clear. Once you read my post, you won't need to even consider an inexpensive Pro-ject turntable, especially the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon. I received my Debut Carbon today, 9/4/2014, and as I expected the hum was terrible. To be extremely clear, this is motor induced hum, it's not ground loop, it mechanical AC motor noise making it back to the arm and cartridge, and you will CLEARLY hear this annoying hum the second the stylus hits the record, between songs, during quiet passages, and at the end of the record, it's terrible. The fixes referenced in this thread DO NOT WORK, at least not for me. Today I spoke directly to Sumiko in Berkeley California, and you can be sure, they know all about this problem, but don't want to make a big deal over it, and I believe that is because many people who purchase a $399.00 turntable don't really realize IT'S NOT SUPPOSE TO HUM! Before I get into the real meat of this situation, let me tell you who I have spoken to. My first contact was Bill Rudolph, the Analog Manager from Sumiko in Berkeley. Bill's fix, send it back to the company you bought it from, he really does not want to address the design flaw with the AC motors at all, the less said about this by him, the better. The second person I spoke to was just very nice, however, he can't say too much either, Paul Green, the Manager of Sumiko's service department. Paul instructed me to totally remove the two screws on either side of the motor, where the Sorbothane grommets are, which I did and it made the hum about 30% more, so, with or without the screws there, the hum is terrible at best and horrible at worst. They have redesigned this entire turntable using a brand new DC motor, and I said, send me that one, and I will send you my AC motor model, which they would not do. They simply wanted me to return the product to the vendor and be done with me, which was my only option.

Ok, here is where the rubber meets the road. Forget all the fixes you have read, and go to this link and you will be completely educated on how this hum can be fixed, why it is happening, everything you have wanted to know about why this damn thing hums. This is by far the most comprehensive article I have read on the Pro-Ject Humming problems, it's excellent.

http://www.theapplechap.webspace.vir...ng_rumble.html

Once you have read the article and know that Henley Designs Ltd, the UK distributor for Project in Oxfordshire DID design a fix, however it's not for the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon. You have to go to their website to find this out, so we are still in the dark, with no way to the light, other than enjoy the loud hum or hope they have fixed the hum with the new model, just now making it to the United States, the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (DC) model.

Speaking directly to the people that know, the Manager of Service for Sumiko, Paul Greene and the Manager of Analog Products, Bill Rudolph, THERE IS NO FIX FOR THE STANDARD AC VERSION OF THE DEBUT CARBON $399.00 TURNTABLE, NONE, IT'S GOING TO HUM, PERIOD, AND THEY DO NOT WANT TO GET INVOLVED.

When you read the long, informative article, you will clearly see what is happening, but when you go as far as I did, you will see, there is NO kit made to reduce or eliminate hum on the AC version of the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon turntable, and that came directly from the Henley Designs Ltd website!

I know the Debut carbon is a cool looking little turntable, but unless you can live with hum, something I don't even have on a $40.00 turntable, I advise you very strongly to stay away from the Pro-ject carbon turntable, and hey, it's not the only model that has motor hum, there are several. I would not touch a Pro-ject turntable under $2,000.00 for anything, as they are just not engineered correctly, and I have seen and heard this first hand.

Happy listening!
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post #88 of 118 Old 09-05-2014, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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When you read the long, informative article, you will clearly see what is happening, but when you go as far as I did, you will see, there is NO kit made to reduce or eliminate hum on the AC version of the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon turntable, and that came directly from the Henley Designs Ltd website!

I know the Debut carbon is a cool looking little turntable, but unless you can live with hum, something I don't even have on a $40.00 turntable, I advise you very strongly to stay away from the Pro-ject carbon turntable, and hey, it's not the only model that has motor hum, there are several. I would not touch a Pro-ject turntable under $2,000.00 for anything, as they are just not engineered correctly, and I have seen and heard this first hand.

Happy listening!
Read the article and nowhere was the fix that worked very well for me mentioned or evaluated.

Nevertheless I have contacted jamie@sumikoaudio.net to see if indeed a factory fix is available and am awaiting a response.

I'll see if their fix, (if available), is any better than my fix that worked perfectly for me and others.

Thanks for the information.

The serial number can be seen if you lift the turntable so that you can peer at the sticker on the bottom; be sure to clamp your tonearm to the tonearm rest with a wire tie before lifting and tilting the turntable.

I do see on their website their listing the Project Carbon as the Project Carbon DC and referencing an outboard DC power supply as of mid August.

So, if you bought one of these recently I'd return it and wait for the new mode.

Interestingly the signal to noise ratio of my unit and the new unit is listed as identical.

Last edited by gajCA; 09-05-2014 at 09:39 AM.
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post #89 of 118 Old 09-05-2014, 10:11 AM
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I must have very insensitive hearing, as I have no discernible hum with my table... Yes, I have done the gajCA fix.

When I get home tonight I will stick my ear right up to my Sonus fabers to see if I can hear anything. During normal listening I have to say I do not.
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post #90 of 118 Old 09-05-2014, 06:27 PM
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Sorry to pester, but could anybody please comment on the screw size? I'd really appreciate it!
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