Eliminating hum on a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Turntable - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 85 Old 06-07-2014, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassLake View Post

I think the other determining factor is the resolution of your system. Either the motors are all over the map or it's people's stereo systems and their ears. I'd lean towards the later.

Hum free through Sennheiser headphones and hum free through my Usher speakers.

Almost bought a Grado until I saw they were unshielded.
gajCA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 85 Old 07-11-2014, 04:29 PM
Senior Member
 
audio4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 88
I had been researching a budget turntable, and the Rega and this one seemed to have great reviews and some hum issues. I decided on the Carbon and saved several threads like this to give me a base of knowledge in case I got one with a hum. BTW, I'm a fix it type of guy, fairly handy so adding some washers is no big deal. I got the Carbon yesterday, and wow! The sound quality is jaw dropping and better to me than cd player reproduction. I do have a slight hum coming from the motor itself though and no time to do something about it until later in the weekend. Really impressed with the sound though, I'm turning into a big vinyl fan after decades of mainly cds.
audio4life is offline  
post #63 of 85 Old 07-12-2014, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
I had been researching a budget turntable, and the Rega and this one seemed to have great reviews and some hum issues. I decided on the Carbon and saved several threads like this to give me a base of knowledge in case I got one with a hum. BTW, I'm a fix it type of guy, fairly handy so adding some washers is no big deal. I got the Carbon yesterday, and wow! The sound quality is jaw dropping and better to me than cd player reproduction. I do have a slight hum coming from the motor itself though and no time to do something about it until later in the weekend. Really impressed with the sound though, I'm turning into a big vinyl fan after decades of mainly cds.
It is a very good turntable that is even better with a little tweaking!
gajCA is offline  
post #64 of 85 Old 07-12-2014, 06:58 PM
Senior Member
 
audio4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 88
So, what RCA cables did you go with? Did you do any other upgrades?
audio4life is offline  
post #65 of 85 Old 07-13-2014, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
So, what RCA cables did you go with? Did you do any other upgrades?
I had some 24 inch Monster Cables laying around and just used those.

No other upgrades as I find the cartridge to be very good.

When the stylus needs replacing I'll upgrade to the Blue stylus.
gajCA is offline  
post #66 of 85 Old 07-18-2014, 04:49 PM
Senior Member
 
audio4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Okay, it's been about a week now, and I've started purchasing used vinyl and testing out the Carbon. On some recordings I find it's actually better than CD reproduction. A really nice lush sound that's enticing. Absolutely no regrets for the 400 bucks. I'd been wondering about getting a used deck, but the prices people are asking on CL in my area is quite surprising, plus I'm really not sure of a good Pioneer, etc., vs an entry level one. I also had a recent negative CL experience when I drove an hour to meet a guy, and he had a different model speaker than what was in his ad.

Anyway, the hum I had wasn't noticeable at seating distance, but I installed the washers anyway. Now I can't hear it from 3 feet away and I would't be surprised if it disappears as the motor breaks in. Speaking of which, I'm not sure if the cartridge is fully broken in yet, but like I said, it's a really good sound stage already, an in the room quality to the sound that lots of cd's don't even have. Of course, some records are not the best SQ either, but over all you can color me happy!
audio4life is offline  
post #67 of 85 Old 07-18-2014, 06:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
RayDunzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 693
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Liked: 212
Sounds like fun... How's the snap, crackle and pop?

I'll be back later...


equitech 1.5RQ > digits > miniDSP > behringer > benchmark > krell pre and monoblocks > reQuest
RayDunzl is offline  
post #68 of 85 Old 07-18-2014, 06:28 PM
Senior Member
 
audio4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 88
There is very little. I've been reading that records should be cleaned with liquids, and on another forum they've had good success with a foaming spray, but I haven't tried any of that yet. And I have plenty of really old records that seem dirty. I'm not sure if the pop and crackle is from dirtiness or worn out grooves? Anyway, all of the cleaner records have very little of that kind of noise.

I did just buy a stylus cleaner today, and have a brush for the records, but I've been using a microfibre cloth with good success. It has longer fibres and is thicker, I bought a pack of them months ago from Costco.
audio4life is offline  
post #69 of 85 Old 07-20-2014, 03:25 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I bookmarked this months ago thinking I would get a Debut Carbon, as a just-in-case thing. Well I ended up finding a nearly new RM-5.1 SE about two months ago and it has produced quite a noticeable hum once the needle was dropped ever since I hooked it up. Well I finally decided to try this fixed today (cost a whopping $0.76), and it worked so well I had to register and share. No hum, even at the speakers with the volume up!
Tpb10505 is offline  
post #70 of 85 Old 08-02-2014, 06:11 AM
Member
 
Tgterm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I have been thinking about adding this 'table to my setup -- which includes a Marantz SR7008, Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 speakers, and an Outlaw LFM-1EX sub. I recently read a good review of the Debut Carbon, but one thing they found concerned me a little. I listen to a wide variety of music, but that does include a lot of hard rock. The reviewers found this table lacking a bit on the low end, so I was wondering if anyone else shares that observation. Any comments would be great...thanks!
Tgterm is offline  
post #71 of 85 Old 08-02-2014, 10:07 AM
Senior Member
 
audio4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 88
I think I may have read that too. It's not the table so much as the cartridge, if memory serves. I haven't noticed a lack in my system, but it may be bass shy as it is since I don't have a sub. I've mostly been playing pop/rock on it, and I haven't noticed anything lacking beyond what my speakers are lacking. But I believe a better cartridge will give better bass response, now if only I could remember which site I found that on!
audio4life is offline  
post #72 of 85 Old 08-02-2014, 11:09 AM
Member
 
Tgterm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
I think I may have read that too. It's not the table so much as the cartridge, if memory serves. I haven't noticed a lack in my system, but it may be bass shy as it is since I don't have a sub. I've mostly been playing pop/rock on it, and I haven't noticed anything lacking beyond what my speakers are lacking. But I believe a better cartridge will give better bass response, now if only I could remember which site I found that on!

I read it here...this reviewer explicitly associated the bass response differences with the turntables themselves and NOT the cartridges. I believe he swapped them to test that very thing...

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...rbon-turntable
Tgterm is offline  
post #73 of 85 Old 08-02-2014, 04:02 PM
Senior Member
 
audio4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Well there you go, I guess you can't get everything for $399!
Tgterm likes this.
audio4life is offline  
post #74 of 85 Old 08-15-2014, 08:26 PM
Senior Member
 
ViperVenom18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Just for the record, I bought a Carbon this past June, and I have no HUM at all, with headphones or through my speakers. Maybe they fixed it with later models?
ViperVenom18 is offline  
post #75 of 85 Old 08-16-2014, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgterm View Post
I have been thinking about adding this 'table to my setup -- which includes a Marantz SR7008, Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 speakers, and an Outlaw LFM-1EX sub. I recently read a good review of the Debut Carbon, but one thing they found concerned me a little. I listen to a wide variety of music, but that does include a lot of hard rock. The reviewers found this table lacking a bit on the low end, so I was wondering if anyone else shares that observation. Any comments would be great...thanks!
Yes I read that as well and can't agree whatsoever.

The bass seems perfect for me; nice and tight and well defined.

Every bit as good as my prior setup which was a Revox Linear Tracking turntable with various generations of Ortofon Moving Coils which are know for well defined bass.

Glad to hear this "fix" works on other brands of turntables, (why wouldn't it?), and glad to hear some Debut Carbon owners have no need for the fix as their units came hum free.
gajCA is offline  
post #76 of 85 Old 08-17-2014, 06:55 PM
Member
 
bridgman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I did, however, find a solution that rendered the turntable hum free either over headphones or by standing next to the turntable.

Picked up some 5/32" neoprene washers from Home Depot;http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded...5718/204225895

Used two of them under the Motor Mount screws and screwed the Motor Mount screws down snuggly onto their rubber bushings, (loosely does not work), just enough to only slightly deform the washers.
Just another "hey thanks, this worked for me" post. Picked up a Debut Carbon a couple of months ago and was surprised at the audible hum coming from the turntable itself (not through speakers) when I first turned it on. Poked around on the internet for a while and found this & a couple of other threads mentioning that the motor mount screws seemed to be the key.

Tried adjusting the screws first - loosening them definitely seemed to reduce the "direct hum" (motor vibration conducted to plinth) but also seemed to increase hum through the speakers when actually playing records. There was an optimal compromise point where neither was too bad, but then the screw head buzzed on the bracket.

Picked up 4 of the washers you suggested, added one between screw head and bracket on each side, result was that the compromise point now worked without buzzing. It's likely that further tweaking could further improve but (a) I had used up my "tweaking time budget" and had to get back to work, (b) transformer hum from my receiver was now the loudest source so I figured next step would be to do something about *that*.

Anyways, thanks !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperVenom18 View Post
Just for the record, I bought a Carbon this past June, and I have no HUM at all, with headphones or through my speakers. Maybe they fixed it with later models?
I suspect yours is just working the way it's supposed to, ie that most units are shipped with the screws tweaked so both "hum from the plinth" and "hum through the speakers" are acceptably low, but it doesn't seem to work on every unit. Could be bumps after shipping, or just insufficient margins in the design.

Or maybe some colours just hum more than others. My TT is grey...

Adding the washers seems to increase the size of that "compromise range" so hopefully it'll get added at the factory eventually. Doesn't seem to have any obvious downsides.

The whole discussion raises a couple of interesting questions:

1. Wonder what the actual mfg procedure is -- power on then adjust screws until hum from plinth "just" gets quiet ? Tighten screws to a specific (really low) torgue ? Actually playing a record then tweaking for best compromise seems pretty labour-intensive for a TT in this price range these days so maybe they err on the side of "hum from the plinth" to make sure that "hum from the speakers" isn't a problem.

2. If hum from plinth and hum through cartridge/speakers are at opposite ends of the adjustment range, does that mean the "hum through cartridge" is getting in via the motor-belt-platter path rather than the motor-plinth-platter path ?

In all cases I guess I should be saying "motor noise" rather than "hum" ?

Last edited by bridgman; 08-19-2014 at 09:14 AM.
bridgman is offline  
post #77 of 85 Old 08-19-2014, 10:49 AM
Member
 
Tgterm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Hi... Set up my new Debut Carbon yesterday. Very easy. Added the washers before I did anything else... Because I was in there anyway. How could it hurt?

So now?.. No hum, Rumble, or anything. Perfectly quiet. Obviously I cannot be sure if I needed to do the mod, but for $1 or thereabouts... Who cares?

Love this TT so far...
Tgterm is offline  
post #78 of 85 Old 08-19-2014, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bridgman View Post
Adding the washers seems to increase the size of that "compromise range" so hopefully it'll get added at the factory eventually. Doesn't seem to have any obvious downsides.
I found that doubling up on the neoprene washers with a small metal washer on top was my final best solution.
gajCA is offline  
post #79 of 85 Old 08-19-2014, 12:42 PM
Member
 
Tgterm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I found that doubling up on the neoprene washers with a small metal washer on top was my final best solution.
Exactly what I did. Thanks.
Tgterm is offline  
post #80 of 85 Old 08-19-2014, 03:43 PM
Senior Member
 
ViperVenom18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I found that doubling up on the neoprene washers with a small metal washer on top was my final best solution.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgterm View Post
Exactly what I did. Thanks.
Good to know. I don't get any hum, so I'm not going to mess with anything... But if the day comes I need to I'll try this first.
ViperVenom18 is offline  
post #81 of 85 Old 08-19-2014, 06:07 PM
Member
 
Tgterm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperVenom18 View Post
Thanks







Good to know. I don't get any hum, so I'm not going to mess with anything... But if the day comes I need to I'll try this first.

I'm not usually much of a tinkerer with electronics either (don't want to eff anything up...) but this was extremely easy, and really seemed to make sense...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Tgterm is offline  
post #82 of 85 Old 08-21-2014, 08:47 PM
Member
 
bridgman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK, so I gave in to peer pressure and added the metal washer and a second neoprene washer to each screw. I think it's a bit quieter than the single washer, and it's definitely easier to find a quiet setting for the screws with the extra washers.

I had to turn the receiver off because its hum was making it hard to hear the motor noise

The neoprene washers are firmer than the sorbothane washer under the motor mounting plate, so when you're adjusting the screws you need to look at the sorbothane washer and stop when it's compressed just a bit, maybe 20% thinner. I tightened one of the screws too much waiting for the neoprene to compress (a single neoprene washer "squishes out from under the screw") before I noticed how much the Sorbothane was being squashed. Backed the screw off, everything seemed fine.

I put on a really quiet album -- a Metronome Hamburg pressing of Grobschnitt / Rockpommel's Land -- and confirmed that reducing the "directly audible" motor noise had not increased hum through platter & cartridge. All good.

So thanks again !

EDIT -- might have to tighten the screws up a bit more, I think the hum through platter & cartridge might have gone up a bit after all. I believe that's just an adjustment thing though, not a problem with adding the extra washers.

Last edited by bridgman; 08-22-2014 at 09:57 AM.
bridgman is offline  
post #83 of 85 Old Yesterday, 06:18 PM
Member
 
kethdredd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Works great! No more hum! Thanks to OP!
kethdredd is offline  
post #84 of 85 Old Yesterday, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kethdredd View Post
Works great! No more hum! Thanks to OP!
My calculations tell me it costs an additional .25 % above the initial investment to fix a problem common to this product.

I owned a motorcycle that from the factory was woeful (the track tests were great but it sucked as a street sport motorcycle...and I only read the track tests), and to turn it into a great bike demanded about 20% above the initial investment.

And I thought it was worth it as the end result was so much better; maybe three times as good.

A fix that is cheap and works for most is the best fix of all.

Glad it worked for you.

Did the Turntable exhibit hum before the fix or did you just do the fix before detecting hum?
gajCA is offline  
post #85 of 85 Old Today, 05:44 AM
Member
 
kethdredd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Audible motor hum that could be heard through the speakers during "dead time" on the vinyl. It appears to be gone completely now. I used 3/16 washers because HD was out of the 5/32. Didn't seem to make much of a difference.
kethdredd is offline  
Reply 2 Channel Audio

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off