Eliminating hum on a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Turntable - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 149 Old 09-06-2014, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bilditup1 View Post
Sorry to pester, but could anybody please comment on the screw size? I'd really appreciate it!
I measured it and it's half an inch long and an eighth of an inch in diameter.

That makes it a number 5 screw that is half an inch long.

The screws are black but are shaped like this:

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post #92 of 149 Old 09-06-2014, 10:37 AM
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Btw, still no hum today ;-)


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post #93 of 149 Old 09-06-2014, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Btw, still no hum today ;-)


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Weird isn't it.

If you click on that article that Litejazz kindly presented us with, (worth a read by the way), the main hum on his that refused to be quelled was at 100hz; and, trust me I have NONE remaining though it was indeed, the frequency that I was trying to kill with my silly little fix.

Here's what 100hz sounds like; I have none of this hum whatsoever between song tracks or at record's end, (which is the time to check safely).


The second worst hum presented in the link's waveform was at 50hz and I have none of that also.

Here's what 50hz sounds like.


I'm impressed that ProJect is improving the TT (I guess we'll have to wait and see what new owners say) and are kindly offering a fix available for probably $50 from dealers if it's the same price as the UK, (which frankly sound absolutely ridiculous), but I haven't heard details back from Sumiko yet.

When I hear back from Sumiko I'll let everyone know how much their fix for the 50hz and 100hz hum cost, (it should be free but evidently won't be), but, regardless, I think I'll not be getting their "fix" as mine works just fine with my 50 cent fix.

Good chance that I may upgrade my second room stereo as some old McIntosh equipment my dad owned has been unearther.

An C28 preamp and an MC2125 amp.

I'd upgrade my speakers to Golden Ear towers and use the Turntable as a source along with my computer.
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post #94 of 149 Old 09-06-2014, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I measured it and it's half an inch long and an eighth of an inch in diameter.

That makes it a number 5 screw that is half an inch long.

The screws are black but are shaped like this:

Thanks a lot!
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post #95 of 149 Old 09-07-2014, 11:11 AM
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The link that litejazz provided is from 2011 and concerns rumble, not motor hum, so it's not really helpful for the Carbon Debut. Mine did hum, but only a little, not sure about his experience of loud humming, but his assumption that they all do is misleading to say the least. I also note that he's a brand new member with 2 posts. It appears that he joined the forum to spam the thread on his Project tirade.

That said, I listened to the Carbon last night, and it was sweet. I think the fix with the washers works for the units that have the hum based on my experience and the reports posted here.
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post #96 of 149 Old 09-07-2014, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
...
Agreed. He kept referring to an AC motor, which was my first clue...gajCA was nice enough not to chew him out and instead be gracious about it.
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post #97 of 149 Old 09-07-2014, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
The link that litejazz provided is from 2011 and concerns rumble, not motor hum, so it's not really helpful for the Carbon Debut. Mine did hum, but only a little, not sure about his experience of loud humming, but his assumption that they all do is misleading to say the least. I also note that he's a brand new member with 2 posts. It appears that he joined the forum to spam the thread on his Project tirade.

That said, I listened to the Carbon last night, and it was sweet. I think the fix with the washers works for the units that have the hum based on my experience and the reports posted here.
Sheesh, I completely missed that the article was from 2011.

Good catch.

I guess I won't hold my breath for an answer from Sumiko because I think their answer was Sorbathane bushings as on the ProJect Carbon.
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post #98 of 149 Old 09-07-2014, 11:50 PM
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I just tried the fix, since I found my own screws. Some experimentation with the tightness necessary to get optimal results.
At this point, I've got it down to something pretty manageable - only really audible in the left channel, at moderately high volumes, during complete silence. At that point, I'm gonna call it a win.
Attached are some pictars, for the lulz. Thanks again to gajCA for finding and publicizing this fix!
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post #99 of 149 Old 09-08-2014, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilditup1 View Post
I just tried the fix, since I found my own screws. Some experimentation with the tightness necessary to get optimal results.
At this point, I've got it down to something pretty manageable - only really audible in the left channel, at moderately high volumes, during complete silence. At that point, I'm gonna call it a win.
Attached are some pictars, for the lulz. Thanks again to gajCA for finding and publicizing this fix!
Just for giggles see if swapping out the RCA cables get you that last bit of improvement with the dust cover closed.
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post #100 of 149 Old 09-08-2014, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Litejazz View Post
Ok, here is where the rubber meets the road. Forget all the fixes you have read, and go to this link and you will be completely educated on how this hum can be fixed, why it is happening, everything you have wanted to know about why this damn thing hums. This is by far the most comprehensive article I have read on the Pro-Ject Humming problems, it's excellent.

http://www.theapplechap.webspace.vir...ng_rumble.html

Once you have read the article and know that Henley Designs Ltd, the UK distributor for Project in Oxfordshire DID design a fix, however it's not for the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon. You have to go to their website to find this out, so we are still in the dark, with no way to the light, other than enjoy the loud hum or hope they have fixed the hum with the new model, just now making it to the United States, the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (DC) model.
I just noticed that the "Henley fix" in the link above is not the final one. When I read the linked article something seemed off, since my recollection had been that the "Henley fix" was the same one that has been shipping in Debut Carbon turntables for a while. The linked article talked about using rubber grommets to support the big o-ring, not the metal bracket. Wondered if my memory was starting to go.

Then I read the follow-up thread...

http://www.theapplechap.webspace.vir...Hz_rumble.html

.. and things started making sense again. The "final" Henley fix put rubber grommets under the bracket (rather than using the grommets to replace the brass collars holding the o-ring) and held the bracket down with 2 loosely fastened screws, just like a stock Debut Carbon.

Both articles also talk about using a round belt to further reduce rumble (although gajCA's fix seems to be sufficient with the stock belt), has anyone tried that ?

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post #101 of 149 Old 09-08-2014, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bridgman View Post
I just noticed that the "Henley fix" in the link above is not the final one. When I read the linked article something seemed off, since my recollection had been that the "Henley fix" was the same one that has been shipping in Debut Carbon turntables for a while. The linked article talked about using rubber grommets to support the big o-ring, not the metal bracket. Wondered if my memory was starting to go.

Then I read the follow-up thread...

http://www.theapplechap.webspace.vir...Hz_rumble.html

.. and things started making sense again. The "final" Henley fix put rubber grommets under the bracket (rather than using the grommets to replace the brass collars holding the o-ring) and held the bracket down with 2 loosely fastened screws, just like a stock Debut Carbon.

Both articles also talk about using a round belt to further reduce rumble (although gajCA's fix seems to be sufficient with the stock belt), has anyone tried that ?
If memory serves the metal bracket rests on Sorbathane dampers.
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post #102 of 149 Old 09-08-2014, 01:55 PM
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Just for giggles see if swapping out the RCA cables get you that last bit of improvement with the dust cover closed.
I just switched out the stock cables with some thick, short, annoyingly stiff Monoprice cables. It definitely helped minimize it further, to a mere whisper. It's not 100% gone, but if I weren't listening for it, I doubt I'd know it was there. So fine in most cases. Thanks again.

ED: In fact, it may be 100% gone. I'm not sure if it's there or if I'm just imagining it. Comes out to a wash.
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post #103 of 149 Old 09-09-2014, 08:45 AM
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^^is it really worth upgrading the cables to improve sound quality on this TT? I am always up for tweaks that might make it better... Anyone here using a reasonably priced alternative that has provided a noticeable improvement? Thanks!
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post #104 of 149 Old 09-09-2014, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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^^is it really worth upgrading the cables to improve sound quality on this TT? I am always up for tweaks that might make it better... Anyone here using a reasonably priced alternative that has provided a noticeable improvement? Thanks!
I only switched them out because mine looked great but did not fit properly on the RCA terminals and therefore caused hum.

The were very very loose and slipped off the RCA if you so much as moved the turntable; replacing them with cables that fit snugly eliminated the hum caused by them which was severe.

If yours slide on nice and snug and don't slip off like mine did you're probably OK.
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post #105 of 149 Old 09-09-2014, 01:13 PM
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I only switched them out because mine looked great but did not fit properly on the RCA terminals and therefore caused hum.

The were very very loose and slipped off the RCA if you so much as moved the turntable; replacing them with cables that fit snugly eliminated the hum caused by them which was severe.

If yours slide on nice and snug and don't slip off like mine did you're probably OK.
Thanks. So, outside of the snugness of the connectors, there would be no discernible audio improvement from moving from the stock cables to one of the pricier versions out there? I have seen some very pricey alternatives at that!

Is everyone on this thread pretty much using the stock cables?

Thanks....
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post #106 of 149 Old 09-09-2014, 07:41 PM
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^^is it really worth upgrading the cables to improve sound quality on this TT? I am always up for tweaks that might make it better... Anyone here using a reasonably priced alternative that has provided a noticeable improvement? Thanks!
Monoprice's stuff is cheap, and definitely have a solid connection. I would advise against their shortest cables, since they're kind of stiff, but in general, you should be good.

http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_...&cs_id=1021814

Blue Jeans are a step up over those, but are also much more expensive:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm

I haven't ever bought anything higher range than that, but don't think I ever would, either, heh.

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post #107 of 149 Old 09-09-2014, 08:36 PM
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Monoprice's stuff is cheap, and definitely have a solid connection. I would advise against their shortest cables, since they're kind of stiff, but in general, you should be good.

http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_...&cs_id=1021814

Blue Jeans are a step up over those, but are also much more expensive:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm

I haven't ever bought anything higher range than that, but don't think I ever would, either, heh.

Just picked up a pair of the Blue Jeans...what the hell, they look nice! Maybe they'll sound nice, too...

Thanks for the links!


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post #108 of 149 Old 09-09-2014, 08:42 PM
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Just picked up a pair of the Blue Jeans...what the hell, they look nice! Maybe they'll sound nice, too...
Well they should block any kind of interference very well. And yeah, they do look nice
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Thanks for the links!
No prob bob
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post #109 of 149 Old 09-09-2014, 08:54 PM
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Well they should block any kind of interference very well. And yeah, they do look nice



No prob bob

Hey, one more thing...any chance you know where I might find a ground wire to use with these new cables? Looked on amazon and nothing jumped out at me...not sure I want to slice up the stock cables to get that one. Maybe Home Depot? Thanks...


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post #110 of 149 Old 09-09-2014, 09:32 PM
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Hey, one more thing...any chance you know where I might find a ground wire to use with these new cables?
No clue. It peels right off the stock cable though - I wouldn't waste my time
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post #111 of 149 Old 09-15-2014, 05:12 PM
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Well, I didn't go about it in the most cost effective manner, but after adding Blue Jeans RCA cables and swapping my red stylus for the blue, all I have to say is....yeow!

Maybe some of you have done the stylus swap already. If you haven't, and happen to have some $$ with nowhere to spend it, it is well worth it, IMO. Seriously.


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post #112 of 149 Old 09-16-2014, 05:31 PM
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Well, I didn't go about it in the most cost effective manner, but after adding Blue Jeans RCA cables and swapping my red stylus for the blue, all I have to say is....yeow!

Maybe some of you have done the stylus swap already. If you haven't, and happen to have some $$ with nowhere to spend it, it is well worth it, IMO. Seriously.


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I added the Pro-Ject Phono Box S, which did the trick. Wasn't aware that the stylus being overly sensitive to the hum was part of the problem. Would rather buy a new cart than stick with that thing, since I don't have any 45s.
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post #113 of 149 Old 09-16-2014, 07:02 PM
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I added the Pro-Ject Phono Box S, which did the trick. Wasn't aware that the stylus being overly sensitive to the hum was part of the problem. Would rather buy a new cart than stick with that thing, since I don't have any 45s.

I have never had any hum. Just upgraded the stylus to improve overall sound quality. And it has.


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post #114 of 149 Old 09-16-2014, 07:19 PM
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I have never had any hum. Just upgraded the stylus to improve overall sound quality. And it has.
Ah, my mistake. Enjoy!

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post #115 of 149 Old 09-20-2014, 05:48 PM
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I stumbled on this post the other day while doing a search for a different problem I was having with the same turntable. Tried the fix just with some washers I found in the toolbox and wow, what a noticeable improvement! The hum is hardly audible. Now I'm going to get the specific materials that were suggested and used by the OP to further eliminate the hum. Thank you!!
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post #116 of 149 Old 09-27-2014, 10:26 AM
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I had a hum last night which was coming through the speakers. I was recording an album onto CD at the time, using one of those old cd recorders I've had for a decade. I hadn't had this hum before, so attempted to find the cause. I noticed that even needle drops seemed noisy like a static shock. Also, lifting the record off the table revealed a strong case of static cling with the fabric mat. I realized I had left the record on the table for several days, and it must have built up a static charge.

When I took a record off the shelf to play, it had no such hum or static. Anyone else notice something like this?
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post #117 of 149 Old 09-27-2014, 10:43 AM
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I had a hum last night which was coming through the speakers. I was recording an album onto CD at the time, using one of those old cd recorders I've had for a decade. I hadn't had this hum before, so attempted to find the cause. I noticed that even needle drops seemed noisy like a static shock. Also, lifting the record off the table revealed a strong case of static cling with the fabric mat. I realized I had left the record on the table for several days, and it must have built up a static charge.

When I took a record off the shelf to play, it had no such hum or static. Anyone else notice something like this?

No, but I have upgraded my felt mat to herbie's lab way excellent II TT mat and it is way better...


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post #118 of 149 Old 10-22-2014, 06:47 PM
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Thumbs up

Just so we clarify where the hum is coming from:
remove the platter and belt, turn on the TT and lightly place two fingers on the body of the motor.. ( not on the spinning head ) you will feel vibrations. I'm oversimplifying, but in essence, the vibrations are from the alternating current passing through the motor. These are the vibrations that are passed through the platter and onto the cartridge. IMPORTANT if you hear hum with the cartridge NOT touching the vinyl, then none of this info will help you.

Because of many variables that will affect every turntable differently... these fixes may not work for everybody.
in my case by adding the neoprene and washers to the center pivot, i had no improvement.
For me the fix was to remove the center screws and let the motor "float"on the sorbothane pads.
I then put neoprene on the four outer screws to help absorb vibration.
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post #119 of 149 Old 10-23-2014, 05:07 AM
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I just hooked up a new Project Debut Carbon DC.
It has a very very slight hum but only if you put your ear next to the motor and the on/off switch. Nothing like the the samples of hums posted on earlier. It's not loud at all. I do notice slight noise coming from the speakers if the TT is on but not playing a record and turn up the volume from 6:00 to 12:00 position. If record is playing, no noise. Anything below 12:00 position, almost nothing. By the way, the two transport screws are removed.
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post #120 of 149 Old 10-23-2014, 10:23 AM
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Spoke with Paul at Sumiko. Nice guy. He heard the noise that I mentioned earlier and said it was RF noise and asked me if I had any electrical equipment, etc nearby. The TT is on the other side of the wall where all the electrical, cable, and phone come in to the house.
He said it wasn't ground loop. It' being picked up by the stylus. As for the hum, it's normal for a little bit, but only a little. I did tell him it was only if my ear was pressed against the TT near the motor or on /off switch.
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