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post #1 of 25 Old 02-09-2014, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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As I was moving some things around tonight it hit me that after I finish building my theater and moving all my equipment into it. I will no longer have a source of music on my third level (my main entertaining floor) What have I done? The silver lining is that I now get to go out shopping for even more equipment. The problem is that most of my extra funds have gone into the theater.

So I plan on doing some reading but thought I would toss a couple questions out there and see if I could get some specific help and narrow down what Iam searching to read about.

First, I plan on giving an internet direct company a try for speakers. I know which one will depend on my ears but Iam curious if I should be looking at bookshelf's with a sub or just a set of towers.

Second, With a $1000 budget should I be looking at separates or will my money better serve me with integrated? anything out there other that NAD and Cambridge worth looking at for under a grand? open to refurbished with warranty.

This will be %100 music while entertaining guests and occasionally turned up for fun. Source will likely be home made mixed discs or plugged in iPod. probably not the best option but it's easy and for real listening I will be in the theater. Probably looking at moderate power 80-125 watts combined with high sensitivity speakers to get decent volume for the room. Don't need pant flapping bass but don't want the music to sound like it's missing it either.


Thanks for any help.

Jason

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post #2 of 25 Old 02-10-2014, 05:00 AM
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Separates aren't at all necessary. Get an AVR, not because you need all the video stuff but because you can buy all the power you need for a lower price thanks to manufacdturing economies of scale. I think any 2 channel system benefits from the addition of a subwoofer whether you use bookshelf speakers or full range.
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post #3 of 25 Old 02-10-2014, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Separates aren't at all necessary. Get an AVR, not because you need all the video stuff but because you can buy all the power you need for a lower price thanks to manufacdturing economies of scale. I think any 2 channel system benefits from the addition of a subwoofer whether you use bookshelf speakers or full range.

+1

I've got a closet full of separates that were replaced by a mid-priced Denon AVR. Better sound quality because of the integrated bass management for the subwoofer and automated system integration (Audyssey).
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post #4 of 25 Old 02-10-2014, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

I think any 2 channel system benefits from the addition of a subwoofer whether you use bookshelf speakers or full range.
'

Respectfully disagree...especially when it seems to be purely for 2-channel music.

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post #5 of 25 Old 02-10-2014, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

I think any 2 channel system benefits from the addition of a subwoofer whether you use bookshelf speakers or full range.
'

Respectfully disagree...especially when it seems to be purely for 2-channel music.

Why?
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post #6 of 25 Old 02-11-2014, 09:14 AM
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I suggest that you consider the Music Hall 15.3 integrated amplifier.

It goes for $549 and is excellent for the price.

The Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 speakers are very good at $450.

It would be impossible to include a good subwoofer in the system for under $1000.
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post #7 of 25 Old 02-11-2014, 09:29 AM
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Whatever you do, don't blow most of your budget on an amplifier. If you don't want a sub, a simple 2-channel receiver from one of the big names will cost you $200 to 400.

If you do want a sub (and you can certainly fit one into your budget, if you spend carefully), an AVR is a better choice because it will blend your sub and mains smoothly.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #8 of 25 Old 02-11-2014, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I suggest that you consider the Music Hall 15.3 integrated amplifier.

It goes for $549 and is excellent for the price.

The Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 speakers are very good at $450.

It would be impossible to include a good subwoofer in the system for under $1000.

I might have worded my post wrong. The $1000 was for the amplifier. I am leaning towards the aperion verus grand and the ascend sierra tower, I also have a left over Klipsch sw112 that was replaced in my theater that was almost brand new the could fill in till I have the extra funds leaving me the speaker budget to go after the above two.


Thanks

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post #9 of 25 Old 02-11-2014, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Whatever you do, don't blow most of your budget on an amplifier. If you don't want a sub, a simple 2-channel receiver from one of the big names will cost you $200 to 400.

If you do want a sub (and you can certainly fit one into your budget, if you spend carefully), an AVR is a better choice because it will blend your sub and mains smoothly.

I plan on replacing my marantz SR5004 with a Dennon x4000 for the sub eq and better odyssey in the next couple months I wonder if I should just move the marantz to the third level if a dedicated 2 channel amp won't offer me anything better at my budget and give my the sub out aswell.

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post #10 of 25 Old 02-11-2014, 08:47 PM
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I was wondering if I could derail the thread very briefly and ask a quick question. I'm new to the HIFI world and am trying to get the jargon down. "Separates" and "integrated", does that refer to amplifier and DAC? If not, then what?

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post #11 of 25 Old 02-11-2014, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dagdrivaren View Post

I was wondering if I could derail the thread very briefly and ask a quick question. I'm new to the HIFI world and am trying to get the jargon down. "Separates" and "integrated", does that refer to amplifier and DAC? If not, then what?

An integrated is a common design where the preamplifier and amplifier are in the same box. Separates are just that. You have a separate unit for all functions. The core of such a setup is the preamplifier/processor and an amplifier.

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post #12 of 25 Old 02-11-2014, 09:33 PM
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Oh, of course! I need to read up on which does what; haven't gotten to that yet. Not quite sure about what processors are either, yet. Thanks for the clarification.

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post #13 of 25 Old 02-12-2014, 09:00 AM
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Oh, of course! I need to read up on which does what; haven't gotten to that yet. Not quite sure about what processors are either, yet.
Best way to understand all this is to lay out the individual parts, which go like this:
1. Source: Either stores music files (e.g., computer or iPod) or reads optical disks (CD or DVD)
2. Digital-to-Analog Converter (DAC): converts digital files to analog signals
3. Preamplifier/Processor: allows processing of signals (equalization, room correction, bass management, etc.)
4. Amplifier: amplifies signals
5. Speakers: convert signals to sound

Modern audio systems generally include a Blu-Ray player (which combines 1 & 2) and an audio/video receiver (2-4). A processor would combine 2 & 3. The preamp/processor distinction is that the processor works on signals while they are still digital; the preamp works on analog signals after they've been converted by the DAC.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #14 of 25 Old 02-12-2014, 10:01 AM
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The most important thing the pre-amplifier does is let you select between sources.
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post #15 of 25 Old 02-12-2014, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I suggest that you consider the Music Hall 15.3 integrated amplifier.

It goes for $549 and is excellent for the price.

The Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 speakers are very good at $450.

It would be impossible to include a good subwoofer in the system for under $1000.

really??? i'd be willing to bet this is not the case.

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post #16 of 25 Old 02-12-2014, 12:50 PM
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Wharfedales are a good choice in the price range of you like smooth warm sound. I have a pair of Diamond 9.6's and appreciate their quality(both build and sound) for the money. However if you don't mind slightly used, like new equipment, you may get much better results. Here's how I spent $1000 in one of my systems: a pair of GR Research N2X with full upgrades(bought 3 months old for $600 total cost), a Harman Kardon HK3490 (paid $200 mint condition), and a BIC F12 sub($175 new) for a total cost of right around $1k. It sounds much better than my Wharfedales. It gives me 70 to 80 of the satisfaction I get from my main system which I spent a lot more cash on.

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post #17 of 25 Old 02-12-2014, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FreeFire View Post

The most important thing the pre-amplifier does is let you select between sources.

That...and that decoding/DSP thing (unless you never use anything but an analog source) wink.gif

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post #18 of 25 Old 02-17-2014, 07:43 AM
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I appreciate the comment, it helps alot.

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post #19 of 25 Old 02-17-2014, 04:36 PM
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If going for music only and you decide on an avr, I would choose one noted for its musicality (which ever it might be). My music listening enjoyment really went up when I went from a Yamaha to an HK. And I am an old fart with some light hearing loss. :>).

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post #20 of 25 Old 02-17-2014, 05:04 PM
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I would ignore anyone who talks about the "musicality" of electronic devices (with the possible exception of synthesizers). Amplifiers are NOT musical instruments.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #21 of 25 Old 02-18-2014, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by gimpy View Post

If going for music only and you decide on an avr, I would choose one noted for its musicality (which ever it might be). My music listening enjoyment really went up when I went from a Yamaha to an HK. And I am an old fart with some light hearing loss. :>).

The musicality is in the music. The electronics, hopefully, do not alter that.
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post #22 of 25 Old 02-18-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Best way to understand all this is to lay out the individual parts, which go like this:
1. Source: Either stores music files (e.g., computer or iPod) or reads optical disks (CD or DVD)
2. Digital-to-Analog Converter (DAC): converts digital files to analog signals
3. Preamplifier/Processor: allows processing of signals (equalization, room correction, bass management, etc.)
4. Amplifier: amplifies signals
5. Speakers: convert signals to sound

Modern audio systems generally include a Blu-Ray player (which combines 1 & 2) and an audio/video receiver (2-4). A processor would combine 2 & 3. The preamp/processor distinction is that the processor works on signals while they are still digital; the preamp works on analog signals after they've been converted by the DAC.
More like a modern home theater system; audio systems might have a completely different set of components.
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post #23 of 25 Old 02-18-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

I would ignore anyone who talks about the "musicality" of electronic devices (with the possible exception of synthesizers). Amplifiers are NOT musical instruments.

They shouldn't be "ignored". They have an opinion, just as you do.
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post #24 of 25 Old 02-19-2014, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

I would ignore anyone who talks about the "musicality" of electronic devices (with the possible exception of synthesizers). Amplifiers are NOT musical instruments.

They shouldn't be "ignored". They have an opinion, just as you do.

All opinions are not created equal. Audio as an area of endeavor is wracked with false beliefs and illusory perceptions. My friends tell me that people who obsess over their golf clubs and are constantly churning them have similar thought patterns as audiophiles.
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post #25 of 25 Old 02-21-2014, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

All opinions are not created equal. ...

 

Yes.  The opinion that the earth is flat isn't equal with the opinion that the earth is roughly spherical.  It is amazing how many people seem to believe that all opinions are equal in some way.  Some opinions are downright stupid and idiotic.  Some are reasonable.  If one cannot ever tell the difference, one will have no end of trouble in life.


God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
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