Here's you chance to get a piece of Pono! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 100 Old 03-11-2014, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
rntlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Neil Young's company is getting ready to give you an alternative to that mediocre redbook audio you've been subjected to! rolleyes.gif

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music
rntlee is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 100 Old 03-12-2014, 02:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
glangford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by rntlee View Post

Neil Young's company is getting ready to give you an alternative to that mediocre redbook audio you've been subjected to! rolleyes.gif

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music

Yea, I saw this in USA today this morning. They are selling flac files up to 192/24 khz. I have to ask what is different about this than what is already offered at places like HD Tracks, Acoustic Sounds (which now offers some DSD downloads), and others.

Seems Mr. Young is late to the party. A few years ago he promised a revolutionary new format for listening to digital music, and he puts out flac? Flac is good mind you, but hardly revolutionary, particulary with DSD downloads becoming more popular. I like Neil Young and do hope he succeeds and puts a dent in the abysmal mp3 download service that today is standard.
glangford is offline  
post #3 of 100 Old 03-12-2014, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
rntlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Curious that they're offering hi-res flac files...here's what the proprietors of flac (xiph.org) had to say about "hi-res audio":
Quote:
Articles last month revealed that musician Neil Young and Apple's Steve Jobs discussed offering digital music downloads of 'uncompromised studio quality'. Much of the press and user commentary was particularly enthusiastic about the prospect of uncompressed 24 bit 192kHz downloads. 24/192 featured prominently in my own conversations with Mr. Young's group several months ago.

Unfortunately, there is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format. Its playback fidelity is slightly inferior to 16/44.1 or 16/48, and it takes up 6 times the space.

If you just said 'Whaa?', you may want to read the whole article.

It's fairly long... but hearing, perception and fidelity are complicated topics. Shysters and charlatans exploit that nuance (and misunderstanding) to bilk unsuspecting consumers of their money, all the while convincing them they're paying for 'quality'.

Entire article here
rntlee is offline  
post #4 of 100 Old 03-12-2014, 08:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
8mile13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,011
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 328 Post(s)
Liked: 238
I ain't gonna pay $14.99 - $24.99 for a Ponomusic digital album, that is not gonna happen..
http://www.ponomusic.com/#faq
8mile13 is offline  
post #5 of 100 Old 03-12-2014, 12:03 PM
Newbie
 
royalbuffet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

If there are more 24bit albums in their online store, then I think that is great.  What I can't understand is what you would need a $400 device for?

 

I can play 24bit flac files through a usb drive in my sony blu-ray player.  Even supports 5.1 - best examples are Wish You Were Here and Brothers in Arms.

 

What is the point of a dedicated device to play PonoMusic?

royalbuffet is offline  
post #6 of 100 Old 03-12-2014, 12:52 PM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,072
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Liked: 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalbuffet View Post


What is the point of a dedicated device to play PonoMusic?

$399 in revenue for the company.
FMW is offline  
post #7 of 100 Old 03-12-2014, 02:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
MuaySteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Excuse my ignorance but are these files any better in quality compared to ripping tracks off a CD at the possible quality?
MuaySteve is offline  
post #8 of 100 Old 03-12-2014, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
rntlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

$399 in revenue for the company.

From ponomusic.com:
Quote:
The PonoPlayer was designed with a “no compromises” approach to sound quality. We partnered with the engineering team at Ayre (www.ayre.com) to include some of their world-class audio technology in our PonoPlayer. The Ayre team describes their contribution to the PonoPlayer design as follows:

• The digital filter used in the PonoPlayer has minimal phase, and no unnatural (digital sounding) pre-ringing. All sounds made (including music) always have reflections and/or echoes after the initial sound. There is no sound in nature that has any echo or reflection before the sound, which is what conventional linear-phase digital filters do. This is one reason that digital sound has a reputation for sounding "unnatural" and harsh.

• All circuitry is zero-feedback. Feedback can only correct an error after it has occurred, which means that it can never correct for all errors. By using proprietary ultra-linear circuitry with wide bandwidth and low output impedance, there is no need for unnatural sounding feedback.

• The DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter) chip being used is widely recognized in the audio and engineering community as one of the best sounding DAC chips available today.

• The output buffer used to drive the headphones is fully discrete so that all individual parameters and circuit values and parts quality can be fully optimized for the absolute finest sound quality. The output impedance is very low so that the PonoPlayer delivers perfectly flat frequency response and wide volume range using virtually any set of headphones ]

Charles Hansen (of Ayre Acoustics) has declared pre-ringing to be the cause of the so-called "digital sound" and has devised brickwall filters that exhibit little to no pre-ringing. The question is though, is he solving a problem that doesn't actually exist? I don't think any modern anti-aliasing filters introduce audible pre-ringing, but it is a great way to peddle your audiophile wares!
rntlee is offline  
post #9 of 100 Old 03-13-2014, 03:43 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,072
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Liked: 758
Yes I suppose it will work for those people who put stock in the claims of the high end audio industry.
FMW is offline  
post #10 of 100 Old 03-13-2014, 05:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Frank Derks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Region A,B,C
Posts: 1,894
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by rntlee View Post

From ponomusic.com:
Charles Hansen (of Ayre Acoustics) has declared pre-ringing to be the cause of the so-called "digital sound" and has devised brickwall filters that exhibit little to no pre-ringing. The question is though, is he solving a problem that doesn't actually exist? I don't think any modern anti-aliasing filters introduce audible pre-ringing, but it is a great way to peddle your audiophile wares!

Pre ringing exists but it is a non issue with regular music content. Especially with higher sampling rates.

"All circuitry is zero-feedback..." is the usual drivel targeted at audiophooles. Hanson is either misleading people on purpose or he really has no clue about how feedback really works.

I have heard a 24bit 192khz track from a Neil Young album without the mastering applied.
If that is the quality we are going to get with pono it will be worth it.

The pono player may be worth it if it turns out a decent player if it can handle regular flacs from ripped cd's as well.

In the end the quality depends to the final mastering and there is no guarantee that it will be any better than the current mastering practices.
Frank Derks is offline  
post #11 of 100 Old 03-13-2014, 05:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,382
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 753 Post(s)
Liked: 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rntlee View Post

From ponomusic.com:
Charles Hansen (of Ayre Acoustics) has declared pre-ringing to be the cause of the so-called "digital sound" and has devised brickwall filters that exhibit little to no pre-ringing. The question is though, is he solving a problem that doesn't actually exist? I don't think any modern anti-aliasing filters introduce audible pre-ringing, but it is a great way to peddle your audiophile wares!

Pre ringing exists but it is a non issue with regular music content. Especially with higher sampling rates.

A giant +1. The ringing in brickwall filters is generally right at Nyquist. Many smart people have noticed that with 16/44 the ringing is at 22 KHz, and 22 KHz is > than the usual 20 Hz - 20 KHz audible band. The issue has been DBT'd to death and pre-ringing, post-ringing and minimal ringing within reason sounds all the same.
Quote:
"All circuitry is zero-feedback..." is the usual drivel targeted at audiophooles.

Right, and then you look at the schematic and count the cathode followers that have nearly 100% negative feedback... They love their triodes that have massive negative feedback due to the low plate resistance.
Quote:
Hanson is either misleading people on purpose or he really has no clue about how feedback really works.

I'm sure you could see the first man to run a 3 minute mile if you mentioned DBTs near him. ;-)

Ditto for the alleged sonic superiority of Pono as hardware or a distribution format. If we get some cool masters out of the vaults as part of the deal fine, but that's a completely different thing.
arnyk is offline  
post #12 of 100 Old 03-13-2014, 11:27 AM
Member
 
LeightonBeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 18

Wasn't it Charles Hanson and Ayre who were caught red handed 2 years ago for buying up $500 Oppo optical players retail, putting them in a new box with Ayre written on the front and charging punters $5,000 for the privilege?

 

Could be a S*ns* cl*p in a toblerone wrapper.

LeightonBeck is offline  
post #13 of 100 Old 03-13-2014, 11:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
trans_lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In my theater
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Didn't he work with Meridian? If so I would guess they are using their apodizing filter?
trans_lux is offline  
post #14 of 100 Old 03-14-2014, 06:56 AM
Member
 
NormP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Big Sky, Montana
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeightonBeck View Post

Wasn't it Charles Hanson and Ayre who were caught red handed 2 years ago for buying up $500 Oppo optical players retail, putting them in a new box with Ayre written on the front and charging punters $5,000 for the privilege?

Could be a S*ns* cl*p in a toblerone wrapper.

I'd suggest that you do some research before making a comment like this, it was not Hanson and Ayre, but rather another manufacturer doing this. they didn't even remove the Oppo case, just built another case enclosing the original unit.

Norm
NormP is offline  
post #15 of 100 Old 03-14-2014, 09:09 AM
Advanced Member
 
trans_lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In my theater
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormP View Post

I'd suggest that you do some research before making a comment like this, it was not Hanson and Ayre, but rather another manufacturer doing this. they didn't even remove the Oppo case, just built another case enclosing the original unit.

http://www.avrev.com/forum/blu-ray-players/4294-ayre-dx-5-10-000-rebadged-500-oppo.html rolleyes.gif
trans_lux is offline  
post #16 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 08:31 AM
Newbie
 
ulogin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

Didn't he work with Meridian? If so I would guess they are using their apodizing filter?

 

I think Meridian declined the offer, and did so because they would not do what Ayre agreed to do--finish the design within four weeks. Based on what I read, PONO gave Ayre just three, four weeks, and expected them to finish everything within the deadline.

ulogin is offline  
post #17 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 09:00 AM
Advanced Member
 
trans_lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In my theater
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulogin View Post

I think Meridian declined the offer, and did so because they would not do what Ayre agreed to do--finish the design within four weeks. Based on what I read, PONO gave Ayre just three, four weeks, and expected them to finish everything within the deadline.
Yikes that's a really aggressive time table!
trans_lux is offline  
post #18 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 09:37 AM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,982
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked: 367
Seems to me this little device is an honest attempt to raise the quality of the music we listen to via a simple to use and relatively inexpensive (at least inn terms of "audiophile" hardware) device. It is also an attempt to let thee MP3 millennial generation hear quality sound through a familiar format.

I don't see it as an evil mooney grab but rather a labor of love by some sincere people who understand giving back. IMHO

I for one am in ... smile.gif

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is offline  
post #19 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 09:49 AM
Advanced Member
 
trans_lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In my theater
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Seems to me this little device is an honest attempt to raise the quality of the music we listen to via a simple to use and relatively inexpensive (at least inn terms of "audiophile" hardware) device. It is also an attempt to let thee MP3 millennial generation hear quality sound through a familiar format.

I don't see it as an evil mooney grab but rather a labor of love by some sincere people who understand giving back. IMHO

I for one am in ... smile.gif

I'm sure your right Mr. Young has always been an advocate for better sound. It's also likely he does not need any more $
I just think if your not part of the Apple universe your chances for success in the music industry are limited at best.
trans_lux is offline  
post #20 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 09:51 AM
RUR
Innocent Bystander
 
RUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California Republic
Posts: 2,353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeightonBeck View Post

Wasn't it Charles Hanson and Ayre who were caught red handed 2 years ago for buying up $500 Oppo optical players retail, putting them in a new box with Ayre written on the front and charging punters $5,000 for the privilege?

Could be a S*ns* cl*p in a toblerone wrapper.


The value proposition is definitely questionable, but, unlike others, the Ayre isn't a simple re-package/re-badge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Hansen View Post


To make it an Ayre, we dismantle it completely and recycle everything except the main PCB (with the video decoder, ABT scaler chip, and HDMI transmitter), the transport mechanism, the VFD display, and the remote control handset.

Next we re-build the main PCB. The big switching power supply only provides 5 VDC, then there are little mini-switching power supplies (called DC-DC converters) on the main PCB that turn the 5 VDC into 1.0 VDC, 1.1 VDC, 1.8 VDC, and 3.3 VDC. All of those are removed. There are also USB power switches that allow hot-plugging of USB devices. These are removed as they have another kind of DC-DC converter called a "charge pump".

All of the supplies are replaced with pure linear supplies with analog regulators. The USB power switches are replaced with devices without the charge pumps. Now we have gotten rid of seven noise sources that create high-frequency square waves with harmonics well out into the MHz region. Getting rid of all of that noise creates a visibly cleaner picture.

Next, we replace the low-quality master video clock with a VCXO. This becomes more important later on, as you will see.

Now we start adding things back in. First is our AyreLink communication system. It allows AyreLink equipped components to act as one big system. For example, turning on the player will turn on all of the downstream components as well as automatically select the correct input on the preamp. We also make an external RS-232 to AyreLink converter box for system controllers like Crestrons. The AyreLink system has opto-isolators between each component to avoid unwanted ground loops, which is why we don't use RS-232 inputs on any of our equipment.

Then we add a custom programmed FPGA on the front panel PCB to do some housekeeping. It intercepts the appropriate commands and translates them to operate the AyreLink system. It disables the internal volume control (which operates in the digital domain and degrades the sound) and instead routes the volume changes to an AyreLink equipped preamp. It also allows us to send custom messages to the front panel VFD display. So when the USB audio input is activated, it will report that on the front panel along with the sample rate of the received signal.

There are a bunch of boards added on the audio side. I say "side" because we literally split the player into two parts. There is a separate power transformer that runs all of the audio circuitry, which is separated from the video side by a bank of opto-isolators. So the audio and video "sides" have separate grounds that are completely galvanically isolated. This is the only way to get the best performance from either your audio system or your video system.

All video displays have switching power supplies that dump noise into your system in the absence of such isolation. There are also ground loops that are inevitably formed as there is no such thing as a balanced video connection. All of those problems go away with our isolation system.

The ten-channel audio board is replaced by a two-channel audio board. Everything on this board is top-quality, with discrete, fully balanced, zero-feedback audio circuitry and discrete, zero-feedback power supply regulators. There are improvements in both the parts quality and circuit design that give it even higher performance than the QB-9 USB DAC that was recently rated "Class A+" in Stereophile's recommended components issue. For two-channel disc playback (CD, SACD, DVD-Audio), the performance exceeds our $6,000 audio-only disc player.

We also add the USB audio input that allows you to connect your personal computer and turn your system into a music server. Your entire digital library (except SACD's, thank you very much Sony -- not!) can be stored on a hard drive and played back with the click of a mouse. So this one component can be the only source component that you need. This input is also connected via a bank of opto-isolators, so there is actually a *third* "side" to the system -- the video, the audio, and the computer. The noise from your computer and its switching power supply will not be connected to either your video or audio systems.

We also add a second audio-only HDMI connector. This is fed by the isolated signals on the audio "side" so that it won't contaminate your surround-sound system if you choose to connect one. It also supports the new "Audio Rate Control" (ARC) feature that is part of the HDMI 1.3a specifcation. This is a breakthrough for the surround-sound enthusiast, as HDMI is normally the worst way in the world to send audio data -- the jitter is even worse than the lowly S/PDIF connection.

But with ARC, the surround-sound processor uses a local crystal oscillator to provide a low-jitter clock to the DAC chips. Then there is a buffer that stores the incoming audio data. When the buffer is too full it sends a signal back upstream to the Blu-Ray player telling it to slow down the disc slightly. When the buffer is too empty, it asks the disc to speed up slightly. Now the audio clock is in charge, the way that it should be. (When the unit is running in two-channel mode, the local low-jitter, fixed-frequency crystal oscillator provides the master audio clock.)

With a modern digital display (plasma, LCD, LCOS, DLP, et cetera) jitter on the video signal does not matter. Since there is no conversion to analog, the digital signal values are simply stored in a frame buffer until needed.

Then the whole thing is put into a custom chassis made entirely from anodized aluminum and stainless steel. We want our products to look just as good 50 years from now as they do today. There are other people making Oppo "clones". One of them only replaces the chassis. Another replaces the power supply also. Nobody is rebuilding the complete player and adding the extra features and advanced technology that Ayre is.

As far as the value, it is up to you to determine that. I can't tell you how much an improved picture is worth. I can't tell you how much better sound is worth. I can't tell you how much the features we add are worth. You will have to decide that for yourself.

What I can tell you is that, just like all of our other products, they offer engineering and performance beyond what anyone else is offering, at a fair price that reflects our cost of manufacturing, and that we back up our products with both a strong network of the finest dealers on the planet and an incredible service policy.

Unlike other manufacturers that try to sell you a "new and improved" product every year or two, when we figure out a way to genuinely improve the performance of our existing products, we offer upgrades to current owners at very reasonable prices. Go to the Audio Asylum and check out some comments regarding our recent "MP" upgrades to the C-5xe and CX-7e disc players, for example.

If you want a great Blu-Ray player for an incredible price, buy the Oppo. If you want the best picture and sound quality in the world for your home theater and price is not a concern, check out the Ayre. And no, it will not be available in November, sorry. Early next year will be a better guess.

NB: 1) I don't own and have never owned any Ayre gear (I use two PS3's and a Panasonic)
RUR is offline  
post #21 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 10:49 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,072
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Liked: 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

I'm sure your right Mr. Young has always been an advocate for better sound. It's also likely he does not need any more $
I just think if your not part of the Apple universe your chances for success in the music industry are limited at best.

This, of course assumes that you believe that sound sources of higher definition than red book actually sound better. In my experience what makes some of them sound better is better mastering, not more bits.
Knucklehead90 likes this.
FMW is offline  
post #22 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 12:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
trans_lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In my theater
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

This, of course assumes that you believe that sound sources of higher definition than red book actually sound better. In my experience what makes some of them sound better is better mastering, not more bits.
Absolutely agree
trans_lux is offline  
post #23 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. US Don't trust any air I can't see ☺
Posts: 3,100
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 585 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Quote:
If you want a great Blu-Ray player for an incredible price, buy the Oppo.

Those are real good .Alternatively the PS3 is a reference quality Blue ray player for cheap and like the Oppo aren't re badged overpriced sometimes dubious mod jobs like some others in addition to the lexicon that were discussed at audioholics .

As mentioned earlier Lexicon get caught putting Oppo's in their own re badged cases and charging thousands for an otherwise re badged Oppo. not an altogether original idea .
http://www.audioholics.com/blu-ray-and-dvd-player-reviews/lexicon-bd-30-blu-ray-oppo-clone/oppo-inside-lexicon-outside-1
OTOH Toshiba marketed a repackaged re badged Sony DVD/SADC player for a short while some years back but did not overcharge for it.


IMO I have to agree with FMW on the merits of High res vs red book. I've done that comparison many times in my SACD phase also and share his opinion .

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
tubetwister is online now  
post #24 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 01:06 PM
Member
 
arthurpjohnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
eek.gif Kind of stunned there's so little discussion of the Pono on AVS Forum, and that naysayers predominate. Expected more enthusiasm for one of America's greatest Rock musicians championing higher fidelity recordings and portable players!

For the record, this music-lover has doubts about 192khz 24bit sound being superior to standard CD fare. But if the PONO's first 24 hours on Kickstarter translate to a new trend -- and if this trend prompts Apple and Samsung to upgrade the DACs and other audio electronics in their mobile gear, shouldn't we give it a standing O?

Will probably NOT buy a Pono -- at least not the first incarnation. But like many other AVS Forum members, have started a library of lossless files, aided by the steady drop in disk memory prices. Would love NOT to need physical media for any new purchases. And would ADORE it if all my favorite pieces that suffer from poor reproduction were lovingly re-mastered.

Aren't the details about this equipment kind of irrelevant compared to the incredible blessings we'd enjoy if younger listeners were to start really caring about high fidelity -- and insisting that ALL their music take advantage of equipment like the Pono?

Isn't this amazing GREAT news? smile.gif I just hope it turns out to be a real trend, and not just a tribute to Neil Young by his fans.
DaverJ and RMK! like this.
arthurpjohnson is offline  
post #25 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 01:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. US Don't trust any air I can't see ☺
Posts: 3,100
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 585 Post(s)
Liked: 377
You can make an iPod play lossless .flac if you desire with decent sound quality . Pono is not a new format just .FLAC re packaged maybe with some DRM content available nothing to see here .
Fiio X3, does the same thing for less $$

They had a review of the Pony on The Cnet Roku Channel and Cnet website .IMO High bit rate .AAC and .mp*** is OK for portables and vehicles . I'm not going to be using Sennheiser 850's or similar cans on a portable anyway although some folks might buy the $ 1K Pono headphones . If some folks find value in that fine . OTOH I can see where musicians may find value in the proprietary business model but technically speaking the product itself or the business model
(DRM content ) are hardly revolutionary .


Listeners can already access Red book (CD) or higher bit rate content and use a Fiio or similar player or modified iPod . Truth is high bit rate mp*** and .AAC are good enough for most folks on portables/mobiles and many times otherwise especially when you consider the variable listening environments . I have losslss and MP*** /AAC avail depending on use and always ofc archive in lossless. I listen to both .

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
tubetwister is online now  
post #26 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 04:13 PM
Senior Member
 
koturban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 97
More bits and higher sample rates are for naught if the Loudness Wars rage on.

Unless music released on the Pono is to be remastered to reclaim the dynamic range for which the CD was originally touted, I don't see the value.
CruelInventions likes this.
koturban is offline  
post #27 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
rntlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by arthurpjohnson View Post

... Expected more enthusiasm for one of America's greatest Rock musicians championing higher fidelity recordings and portable players!

He's actually Canadian...and a lot of us Canucks are are more than a little pissed with old Neil's recent antics up here. As far as his new business venture, I wish him the best of luck but I'm not interested.
rntlee is offline  
post #28 of 100 Old 03-15-2014, 09:16 PM
Senior Member
 
kraut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
and a lot of us Canucks are are more than a little pissed with old Neil's recent antics up here

Now that you mention it...the poisoning of water sources by certain industries not only piss some musicians off.

But I guess Albertans don't mind polluted water sources - as long it only concerns some natives. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/oilsands-study-confirms-tailings-found-in-groundwater-river-1.2545089
RMK! likes this.
kraut is offline  
post #29 of 100 Old 03-16-2014, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
rntlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Ridiculous comment.
Scrutiny of the tar sands development is already ongoing in Canada (as your article implies). We don't need an expat who has lived in the US since the 60's jetting in to set us straight.
rntlee is offline  
post #30 of 100 Old 03-16-2014, 06:58 AM
Super Moderator
 
DrDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 12,747
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 282
Stick to the topic, not politics, please.
DaverJ and citizen arcane like this.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
DrDon is offline  
Reply 2 Channel Audio

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off