Is High-End Audio Obsolete? - Page 59 - AVS Forum
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post #1741 of 1759 Old 06-06-2014, 04:05 PM
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Now I'm wondering what power amp you use to drive these VMPS SRE FF1s.


Derogatory terms like "analog bigot", "digiphobe", "internet eggspurts" have nothing to do with electrical engineering.
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post #1742 of 1759 Old 06-06-2014, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

I see you like ribbons, too.

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Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Smart move with the ribbons.

They look like fun! Good stuff. smile.gif

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Originally Posted by SubObjective99 View Post

Very nice! I'm curious how they're placed in your room.
Crossover point to the ribbons is about 180 Hz. Anthem room correction shows them flat to 20 Hz (or below), but I chose to cross them over to an IB subwoofer at 40 Hz.
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Now I'm wondering what power amp you use to drive these VMPS SRE FF1s.
Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature. I chose it because the speakers are actively biamped, meaning two channels per speaker.
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post #1743 of 1759 Old 06-06-2014, 04:50 PM
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Sunfire amps are great, Bob Carver knows his stuff.
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post #1744 of 1759 Old 06-23-2014, 01:26 PM
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Connecting your Pioneer Elite SC-55 to the B215XLs?

Did you make your own cable terminations in order to connect your B215XLs to your Pioneer SC-55 receiver? Do you use bare wire into your receiver, and a 1/4" TR into the speaker?

I have an amp I'd like to try that uses banana plugs, but I cannot find any cables with single banana plugs on one end and either a 1/4" TR or a speakon connector on the other end.

The only things I've seen are the double banana plugs like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-SKT410-Sp...dp/B003BVJ7R2/

What I want is single banana plugs such as these at one end:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005E1CGZC/

, with either a 1/4" TR or a speakon on the other end. Does anyone sell these?

Thank you.
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post #1745 of 1759 Old 06-23-2014, 05:14 PM
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Somebody probably sells them, have you considered buying the connectors and wire and making your own cable?

I'll be back later...

equitech -> sources > benchmark > krell > reQuest
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post #1746 of 1759 Old 06-23-2014, 09:19 PM
 
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If it cannot be universally defined, and repeatedly reproduced, it's hard argue that it's even real, let alone obsolete! - No?


Perhaps a better question: is better audio obsolete?
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post #1747 of 1759 Old 06-23-2014, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by FMW

You and I consider it deceptive advertising but the makers of high end audio stuff consider it accurate, or at least some do. You can prove them wrong with a bias controlled test but they will simply attack the test and provide you will a bundle of customer comments praising the product. From the outside, who can tell who's right? Remember there are still lots of people who reject evolution. Evolution!!, remember the great Inquisition, but of course yes, God created us and God looks like us as she say" What is good was one of us trying to make it's way home?

I have been making this point on various threads too. This is an unwinnable war because the collective intelligence of the sales people, Do you need a brain, I though that was optional! and the general public is insufficient to always be on guard. There are too many ingrained reasons why these issues persist.

Just imagine... 20% of the American public still smokes despite cigarettes subtract 12 yrs average from your lifespan. People KNOW its bad for them but will start anyway. Well but now you can have ecigarette with even more nicotine!!!

People want to smoke marijuana, what's next heroin?... Great idea! NOT!

The human race itself has a great deal of sociopathic behaviour and my intuition dealing with these issues for a LONG time in medicine is this: the human race may evolve to higher average intelligence where a scientific mindset / skepticism becomes more ingrained into the average person's thinking.

This is not to say that "belief" and "intelligence" are mutually exclusive however. I could be wrong and it might be that "belief" may supercede intellect in evolution's bag of tricks. We may move to a society that is increasingly trustworthy without evidence. JUST TRUST ME, one just as too look at all the Dictators, Pedophiles, Politicians and what you find in prisons just trust me

Remember a person that doesn't believe what anyone else says without direct evidence... Would be considered a paranoid schizophrenic. Trust and belief are social mammalian traits that may ensure our survival as a group.
Agreed 100%

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post #1748 of 1759 Old 06-23-2014, 10:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar
Quote: Originally Posted by FMW

You and I consider it deceptive advertising but the makers of high end audio stuff consider it accurate, or at least some do. You can prove them wrong with a bias controlled test but they will simply attack the test and provide you will a bundle of customer comments praising the product. From the outside, who can tell who's right? Remember there are still lots of people who reject evolution. Evolution!!, remember the great Inquisition, but of course yes, God created us and God looks like us as she say" What is good was one of us trying to make it's way home?

I have been making this point on various threads too. This is an unwinnable war because the collective intelligence of the sales people, Do you need a brain, I though that was optional! and the general public is insufficient to always be on guard. There are too many ingrained reasons why these issues persist.

Just imagine... 20% of the American public still smokes despite cigarettes subtract 12 yrs average from your lifespan. People KNOW its bad for them but will start anyway. Well but now you can have ecigarette with even more nicotine!!!

People want to smoke marijuana, what's next heroin?... Great idea! NOT!

The human race itself has a great deal of sociopathic behaviour and my intuition dealing with these issues for a LONG time in medicine is this: the human race may evolve to higher average intelligence where a scientific mindset / skepticism becomes more ingrained into the average person's thinking.

This is not to say that "belief" and "intelligence" are mutually exclusive however. I could be wrong and it might be that "belief" may supercede intellect in evolution's bag of tricks. We may move to a society that is increasingly trustworthy without evidence. JUST TRUST ME, one just as too look at all the Dictators, Pedophiles, Politicians and what you find in prisons just trust me

Remember a person that doesn't believe what anyone else says without direct evidence... Would be considered a paranoid schizophrenic. Trust and belief are social mammalian traits that may ensure our survival as a group.

dB Cookster -

Dare I say that we're merely debating audio preferences and metrics of sonic goodness, for leisure and not for professional pursuit. Posting opinions is not only welcome, but the norm..


Universally insulting a profession and mixing predominantly unrelated, reaching metaphors about real human chemical dependencies, which cross the blood/brain barrier with that of auditory experience, is a waste and merely fuels the fodder that you claim to distain.

Anecdote for anecdote makes us all dopes!


Metaphor for metaphor makes us all bores!


So isn't it better to politely agree to disagree, and then move on to another thread?

I will leave you with your own quote to ponder: "JUST TRUST ME, one just as too look at all the Dictators, Pedophiles, Politicians and what you find in prisons just trust me"


PS Frankly, I'm surprised that the original posting wasn't deleted by a moderator.

Last edited by dB Cookster; 06-24-2014 at 05:42 AM.
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post #1749 of 1759 Old 07-06-2014, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dB Cookster View Post
If it cannot be universally defined, and repeatedly reproduced, it's hard argue that it's even real, let alone obsolete! - No?

Perhaps a better question: is better audio obsolete?
That's the subject of the article Scott wrote as a follow-up to this thread: Is High-Resolution Audio Irrelevant?

As for high-end audio... obsolete does not mean extinct. The turntable is obsolete, yet it is the favorite source device of many high-end audio fanatics.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
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post #1750 of 1759 Old 07-07-2014, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dB Cookster View Post
Perhaps a better question: is better audio obsolete?
The sound quality of audio is IMO generally increasing.

The big transition in the last 10 years has been the vast increase in personal audio as typified by the iPod.

Modern personal digital players are technically speaking certainly no worse performers than personal CD players were.

There has also been a transition in terms of the preferred personal audio transducers from headphones to earphones. I find that in ear monitors (IEMs) are highly variable in terms of sound quality which was also true of headphones. I've never had a pair of earbuds (which sit in the pinnea) that I liked, but I feel like I've done far better with IEMs.
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post #1751 of 1759 Old 07-07-2014, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
There has also been a transition in terms of the preferred personal audio transducers from headphones to earphones. I find that in ear monitors (IEMs) are highly variable in terms of sound quality which was also true of headphones. I've never had a pair of earbuds (which sit in the pinnea) that I liked, but I feel like I've done far better with IEMs.
isn't the full headphone making a comeback?

with ear-buds more of an entry level choice?

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #1752 of 1759 Old 07-07-2014, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post
isn't the full headphone making a comeback?
I don't think they were ever away. What I see is an immense increase in the sales of ear buds, IEMs or earphones, and Headphones. All of them.

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with ear-buds more of an entry level choice?
I consider all of the ear buds that I've heard to be entries to a level I don't wan to go to.
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post #1753 of 1759 Old 07-10-2014, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
The sound quality of audio is IMO generally increasing.

The big transition in the last 10 years has been the vast increase in personal audio as typified by the iPod.

Modern personal digital players are technically speaking certainly no worse performers than personal CD players were.

There has also been a transition in terms of the preferred personal audio transducers from headphones to earphones. I find that in ear monitors (IEMs) are highly variable in terms of sound quality which was also true of headphones. I've never had a pair of earbuds (which sit in the pinnea) that I liked, but I feel like I've done far better with IEMs.
As IEMs go, I've recently discovered the Plantronics BackBeat Go 2's. I didn't expect much from an in-ear Bluetooth headset, but I've been very impressed with these. You may like to give them a listen.

Omar
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post #1754 of 1759 Old 07-10-2014, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post
isn't the full headphone making a comeback?

with ear-buds more of an entry level choice?

I think so. There has been much new technology in the headphone world in recent years. Open back models, planar models and an overall improvement in manufacturing. It is possible to enjoy true high end audio through a great set of cans.
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post #1755 of 1759 Old 07-10-2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
I think so. There has been much new technology in the headphone world in recent years.
Please name it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
Open back models,
Typified by the Sennheiser 404 introduced in the 1960s

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
planar models
If by that you mean electrostats, the first Stax came out in the 1960s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stax_products


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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
and an overall improvement in manufacturing.
Please describe it.

Quote:
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It is possible to enjoy true high end audio through a great set of cans.
That has been true for a long time. All that the high end's involvement has done is inflated the prices and the overblown claims.
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post #1756 of 1759 Old 07-10-2014, 03:27 PM
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I had a pair of Sony phones, that I bought in 1992 or so, I wasn't impressed by them, they just sat on the shelf until recently, when I discovered they had gone into molecular auto-destruct.

Here is a nice review on them, pretty much gets it right:

User Reviews

Sony MDR-CD750

Palmer (USA)
7 years ago
Purchase year : 1991 Price paid : 100 USD (used)
I am 44 years old, and have been a profesional, working musician since I was in my mid-teens. I purchased these headphones after getting a recommendation from a fellow musician (whose taste obviously varies from my own). These are the worst sounding headphones I have ever used, for any purpose, from a "boombox" accessory to studio sessions. They are bulky, uncomfortable, and have little to no highs OR lows. They get mid-range ONLY, and even that is "tinny." I recently gave the exact headphones to another lifelong, professional musician friend of mine (he's 55) to see if he wanted them, and he was not impressed either. We then passed them around the room, and after allowing a band AND sound engineers try them out, in search of someone who might want them, these phones went into the trash, which is where they belonged from the beginning.
S. Palmer
Nashville TN

I replaced them with Sennheiser HD650. They sound remarkably similar to my stereo, which is probably more a compliment for the stereo than the phones.

I'll be back later...

equitech -> sources > benchmark > krell > reQuest
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post #1757 of 1759 Old 07-10-2014, 05:00 PM
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When thinking of headphones right now only one thing comes to mind which is the Beats succes. Beats Electronics was founded in 2006 and sold for $3 billion in 2014, it's product line is primarily focused on headphones and speakers.


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post #1758 of 1759 Old 07-10-2014, 06:11 PM
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I think everyone knows about the juggernaut success of Beats by now, but since you brought it up, and to tie back into this thread subject, the most useful lesson about Beats is the tremendous power of marketing. Beats marketing centered upon fashion, street cred, youth culture, etc. Not really great headphone products in and of themselves but tremendously successful for non-solely audio reasons thanks to marketing. And likewise, marketing is the same (and only remaining) driving force holding up the "high end".

There's not much substance left in the realm of exclusive, boutique audio. But good marketing has staked out a successful, albeit much smaller territory, by appealing to conceits of refined audio taste and exclusivity. Any average Joe knows about and can own Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Crown and the like. But owning the likes of Cary, Audio Research & Conrad Johnson will set you apart as a sophisticated connoisseur of sound.

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post #1759 of 1759 Old 07-10-2014, 06:15 PM
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Found this article interesting some of you might also. https://www.izotope.com/en/community...ank-filipetti/
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