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#1 · (Edited)
Writing about AV-related topics inevitably leads me to shows where high-end audio gear is on display and available to audition. As I listen to more and more sound systems, there's one thought that keeps coming back to me: High-end audio has (potentially) outlived its usefulness.
 
When I first became aware of hi-fi—as an eight-year-old child living in Athens, Greece—Pink Floyd had just released The Wall on a vinyl double LP. I remember the distinct difference between listening to that album on a stereo hi-fi system—a pair of full-sized 3-way Acoustic Research AR-11 speakers and a Technics receiver—versus the sound made by the Philips record player console my grandparents had in their living room. My favorite track was "Another Brick In The Wall (Part II)."
 
A few years later, Brown University accepted my mother's application to attend graduate school, so we moved from Greece to Providence, RI just as the 1980s began. One of the first things she did was purchase a nice stereo. It was a pair of EPI 100 2-way speakers connected to a 40-watt/channel Technics receiver and an Audio-Technica turntable. That combo later became my first stereo system when my mother gave it to me; it ultimately lasted a decade and a half. That system became the reference with which I judged every future upgrade.
 

My first speakers were EPI 100s - photo from audiocircuit.com
 
By the late 1980s, I had started reading Stereophile magazine. I loved John Atkinson's speaker reviews; I was sure that one day I would own a pair of Stereophile-rated speakers and either a Krell or Crown amp. Those were my primary parameters for my future system, but I also wanted speakers capable of very deep bass reproduction and a good CD player.
 

Krell's KSA250 amp was my dream amplifier back in the early 1990s - photo from stereophile.com
 
I befriended the staff at two local hi-fi stores: Stereo Discount Center and Ocean State Audio. Stereo Discount Center was all about mainstream gear, so-called mid-fi, and featured Sony ES, Yamaha, Denon, and Adcom electronics, among others. When it came to speakers, B&W was the main brand along with Paradigm, but the store also sold some speakers from a now-defunct Canadian company called Image. Ocean State Audio was strictly high-end and featured a lot of Krell gear. The store's owner—Bruce Kutin—was extraordinarily accommodating considering I was just a kid with no hope of affording a $100,000 stereo system. It didn't seem to matter; Bruce was glad to swap a pair of ProAC towers for a pair of Apogee Studio Grands to see how they sounded playing Enya, Sly & Robbie, and The Orb.
 

Apogee Studio Grand speakers were notoriously tough to drive
 
Ultimately, I spent my money at Stereo Discount Center. I settled for a system based on a pair of Sony TAN-77ES amps running in monoblock mode. For my speakers, I chose a pair of Image Concept 200s—2-way towers that earned a class C rating from Stereophile. To quote John Atkinson's review, "This speaker offers the deepest bass per dollar of any in this price class." No upgrade ever made as much impact on me than those Concept 200s—they sounded amazing for their time. 
 

I used to have a two-stack of Sony TAN-77ES amps - photo from flickr by mastercontrolmedia
 
That system, the most minimal I've ever owned, consisted of Sony's legendary CDP-X7ESD CD player connected to the twin amps with a pair of Monster interconnects. It was a great system, augmented by a pair of B&W Acoustitune subwoofers—one per channel.
 

Inside Sony's ridiculously overbuilt CDP-X7ESD CD player - photo from phxaudiotape.com
 
Within a couple of years of procuring that stereo, I made a fateful decision and bought a Yamaha DSP-E300 standalone surround processor along with a pair of B&W bookshelf speakers. Bam! The sense total envelopment in a soundfield hooked me immediately. I bought a VHS Hi-Fi VCR shortly thereafter—I remember watching Aliens at home and the thrill of hearing sound effects come from behind my head. I also discovered the joys of listening to music in surround, which I enjoy to this day. I'm not a 2-channel purist by any stretch of the imagination, and that shift represented a clear break from the high-end dogma of 2-channel minimalism.
 

Yamaha's DSP-E300 surround processor/amplifier forever changed how I listen to audio
 
I was having fun in surround-sound world, but I'd still go visit Bruce at Ocean State Audio and listen to the high-end stuff. I always left impressed by how his systems had that little bit of extra refinement, but I also marveled at how my own system seemed to handle deep bass better than anything Bruce was able to put together. On one day I'll never forget, I told him that a whole part of a Sly & Robbie bass line was inaudible. His response? "It must be imaginary bass if this system isn't reproducing it." That particular system featured a pair of Apogee Studio Grand speakers with integrated subs. In retrospect, it was probably an issue with speaker positioning. Today, reproducing that bass line is a cakewalk for most decent full-range speakers—clearly today's gear is better than ever.
 

Sly & Robbie, masters of imaginary bass
 
Bruce's comment still bugs me to this day, even though over 20 years have passed. However, the circumstances that led to it are even more prevalent now. The threshold where the law of diminishing returns kicks in is so low these days, it makes we wonder what the purpose of high-end hi-fi is anymore—aside from maximizing profits. Is the rationale for owning a bespoke amplifier similar to owning a Rolex, to show off engineering bling from a bygone era? Is there another, better justification to pay extra for engineering artistry?
 
Now, I power my DIY subwoofers with a Crown Xti-2002 amplifier. A Pioneer Elite SC-55 receiver produces more than enough juice to run my ridiculously cheap and good-sounding Behringer B215XL speakers. My Xti-2002 performs so well, I end up wondering what—if any—benefit I would gain from spending many times more on a high-end amp. It could be that the difference is in the details—often it's hard to hear.
 

My current system contains no high-end amps, cables, or speakers; nevertheless, it sounds just as good as far more expensive gear
 
My ears are open to sonic revelations—I'm on the road listening to elite stereo and home-theater sound systems all the time. The more I hear, the more I conclude that pro audio is way ahead of the curve versus high-end hi-fi. In fact, high-end consumer-oriented audio gear is starting to look more and more like overpriced pro gear, especially with the adoption of balanced XLR interconnects and (gasp) the use of fans instead of heat sinks.
 

Here's a stereo-typical high-end audio system. Yes, I have a sense of humor.
 
Technology is a great equalizer. The transition from analog to digital audio has had many ramifications, but the main one is simple and obvious—it's incredibly cheap and relatively easy to perform essentially perfect digital-to-analog conversions and vice versa. A $99 Blu-ray player is all the transport you need to feed studio-quality uncompressed audio to a receiver that outperforms even the very best gear from the 1990s. It's a great time to be an audiophile on a budget. For example, last night I listened to Dark Side of the Moon presented in 5.1 surround, from the DSoTM Ultimate Immersion Blu-Ray box set. It beat every 2-channel mix of the album that I have ever heard, and that includes vinyl as well as CDs on six-figure stereo systems.
 
However, this ubiquity of quality brought about by the digital revolution has resulted in a backlash—the resurgence of vinyl records. This time around, record collecting is all about boutique labels and 180-gram, deep-groove, limited-edition pressings on virgin vinyl. Putting aside that high-resolution digital audio is superior to vinyl in just about every performance category—with vinyl, it still costs a fortune to put together a truly great-performing stereo system. That serves the interests of both the dealers and the consumers in the high end who are looking for bragging rights. I won't deny that vinyl can sound excellent, but it cannot ever hope to beat high-resolution digital audio in terms of distortion, dynamic range, and frequency response. Similarly, a Rolex pocket watch cannot hope to beat the iPhone/iWatch in terms of accuracy or utility—but it certainly costs more.
 

A pair of these Wilson Maxx3 speakers, VTL Siegfried Series II amps, and Transparent Opus MM2 speaker cables costs $100,000 altogether. You'll still need a source, a preamp, and interconnects.
 
I'm left thinking that high-end audio is obsolete. However, for audiophiles, the future looks much brighter than the past or even the present. The hi-fi landscape is dramatically different today versus even a decade ago. High-resolution audio is available online from multiple sources, and iTunes tracks come extremely close to CD quality. It's possible to get fantastic stereo sound—I'd even say audiophile sound—from a $250 pair of speakers connected to a $20 amplifier using a smartphone for the sound source. I know, because I have exactly such a system in my kitchen—a pair of Pioneer SP-FS52 towers connected to a Lepai LP2020+ amplifier with a retired iPhone acting as the source. In many ways, it sounds almost as good as my system from two decades ago—one that cost and weighed over ten times as much!
 

This little Lepai 20 watt/channel stereo amplifier sounds great and costs under $20 - photo from CNET
 
Then there's the case of Monster. Last year, I bought a pair of Monster Clarity HD speakers on clearance. I considered them a ripoff at the original MSRP of $700, but they currently sell for around $300, a price point where they are a bargain. They are self-powered 2-way bookshelf speakers that happen to sound good despite the fact they use inexpensive, off-the-shelf components—something I discovered when I opened one up and Googled the part number of the woofer, which Parts Express sells for $18 each. That Monster managed to take such an affordable driver and make it sound so good further reinforces the notion that even mass-produced audio components can perform exceptionally well.
 

This Peerless 5-1/4" driver—used in Monster's Clarity HD One Speakers—sounds great despite its low cost
 
As an audiophile who's seen the evolution of audio from a stack of 45s playing from a giant piece of wooden furniture to today's wireless, all-digital systems, I'm more optimistic than ever that the golden era of audio is ahead of us. However, I'm not fully convinced that high-end hi-fi has a significant role to play in that future. The value of high-end depends on whether the gear delivers notably superior performance—otherwise it's audio jewelry.
 

$2 million for an amplifier? The Pivetta Opera Only amp delivers 160,000 watts of power - photo from whathifi
 
I want to hear your opinions on this topic. What direction will high-end audio take? What is the most promising technology for audiophiles? And most importantly, do you think high-end audio is obsolete?
 
 
 
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#1,902 ·
The more knowledge, the more money, the more access you have to the very best in audio equipment and music medium, the closer to the truth you are.
It takes great dedication, true love, true passion, many years, of experience, connections, and all that expensive jazz.

True but sad.
 
#1,923 ·
Well that's the thing - my knowledge tells me that a lot of what audiophiles pay for is bunk.

Speakers are worth investing in, but integrated circuits are not expensive to mass produce and the ICs are where the amplification etc. takes place, you can make a very good amplifier using ICs that do not cost very much. Technology has come a long way.

Look at photography - when photographing models, the photographer use to stretch pantyhose over the lens. Why? because it diffused the light, so what was caught on film was not as true a representation of the source but the distortion was pleasing to the eye.

Then optical filters came that allowed the photographer better control of how much soft focus.

Then digital photography came and now the distortion is quite often added in photoshop.

The same is the case with audio. Tubes produced distortion that often was pleasing to the ear just like pantyhose over the lense provided distortion that was pleasing to the eye. Low quality tubes produced distortion that was not very pleasing to hear.

With integrated circuits and digital audio, that distortion is really not a factor and paying more isn't going to reduce distortion that isn't there, often the ICs used are the same. Distortion that is pleasing to hear belongs in the mastering phase with digital audio, and not as a byproduct of the amp or (in the case of vinyl) the medium.

We can for a low amount of money produce quality amplification that is true to the line level signal coming in to the system.
We can for a low amount of money produce quality DACs that are true to the analog signal originally digitized.

That's why so many high end products have babble that can't be defined or quantified, like "sound has more openness".

There are design considerations, like reducing electrical interference on the analog signal after the DAC etc. but those are problems that are largely solved. Build quality is worth investing in, and features that you NEED are worth investing in.

For example if you want to attach a record player w/o a separate preamp, it is worth investing an amp with a built-in phono preamp. If you want to attach an ipod, you are probably better off buying a receiver that eats the iPods digital and has its own DAC. If you want to drive 200W speakers obviously you need a receiver that does more than 50W per channel.

But speakers are, in my opinion, really the only place where lots of money really does have a noticeable impact on the quality of the sound produced.

Integrated circuits and improved manufacture techniques really have made it easy to do a quality DAC and quality amp to get the signal to the speakers without it costing a fortune.

And also, most people over 30 don't hear as well as they think, many of us (myself included) have damaged our hearing from over-use of headphones at unsafe volumes. I don't hear badly, but actually hearing tests show it, and it isn't uncommon.
 
#1,904 ·
Entertaining thread to read. Lots of opinions but I find it a stretch when strangers on a board think they can and should make value judgements for others. A lot of claims here stretch credibility. Just because a paid reviewer writes something doesn't make it a fact. Similarly, just because Mark or anybody else here makes a claim doesn't make it true for everybody either.
All of us need to listen for ourselves and make our own judgements based on what OUR ears hear, how our brains process it and what our personal objectives are. We all come to this hobby from a different place and likely have a differently defined destinations in mind.
Fun just the same.
Just buy what you can afford and enjoy it. Don't try to convince others that the system you have chosen should be recognized by others at the ultimate. I've spent 50 years involved with this hobby and have loved my equipment at all stages starting with small Kenwood separates, a Garrard turntable and AR 4x's back in the 60's. Your ears and eyes will tell you what is high end to you, not some poster's opinion, regardless of their assertiveness. Listen, consider what others say, then decide for yourself.
I hope everybody get great pleasure from whatever they consider as their high end rig.
bp
 
#1,906 · (Edited)
[BP] That reflects quite closely my own experience; however, I do not now believe equipment to be as subjective as you feel it is. Reading others' experiences and advice here concerning, for example, the sound of different CD players, DACs, amps and cables brought me to focus better on these parts of the chain and finally to have the confidence to accept what my ears (rather than my hifi dealer) have been telling me for several years now: that those components have reached such a level of maturity in design and manufacture that choosing one from another is almost unimportant.

Listening to a friend's "top end" system with my son over Christmas and talking to him about CD players helped me further to recognise these facts, as well as to see that he is still sloshing around in snake oil and is still - after half a lifetime and spending a mass of money - listening to electronics rather than to music.

What still amazes me is that magazine reviewers get away with the lies they do. Reading only yesterday in an online hifi magazine, for example, of the different sounds of the DACs in a Sonos, Arcam and Naim. They are clearly either deluded or making it up.
 
#1,907 ·
Agree with everything said here. These hi-end reviewers are something else, aren't they? Most of them, IMO, are FOS. I love when they compare cables, especially digital cables. Makes me want to laugh out loud. Also, they can't even give negative reviews anymore. I heard of one review recently of speakers I think in stereophile where the reviewer had to attenuate the treble of the speakers (not sure how, but not with tone controls) because he found them excessively bright and he STILL gave them a good review.

I have a hi-end system, but I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that it sounds twice as good as a system half its price. I like the looks of it, it's audio jewelry and I can accept that. The biggest difference is the DSP room correction I use which I could never do without.
 
#1,908 ·
Maybe the relationship between price and perceived quality isn't a linear relationship but some sort of logarithmic one?
 
#1,912 ·
So the only thing I have to worry about on my next purchase is the speaker only?

After I already have a decent amp and cables, from now on my only goal is to focus on speakers only?

I should just put my budget 100% on quality speakers? I already have a decent amp,DAC and cables.

Thanks
 
#1,924 ·
My somewhat limited experience in these matters tell me the more inaudible I have made the audibility of the already inaudible distortions, the better the results.

--

"You can't hear those defects! They're inaudible!"

"I know, but apparently now I can not hear them even less, and it sounds even better than I was formerly unable to even imagine it would."

--

But wait, I've been told here I don't have high-end gear, it's high-performance.

Never mind.

You may continue your rants.
 
#1,925 · (Edited)
#1,927 ·
Kind of like, birds of a feather flock together?
 
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#1,931 ·
exactly
its just how we are
 
#1,933 ·
No sweat, I am reading very clearly all of us and what we are saying. We all have a commonalty, definitely.
And we are not always aware of it @ all times; so we lose track once in a while; human nature.

And high-end audio will never become obsolete, I truly think, deep down in my soul. ...Like James Brown.
 
#1,934 ·
Yes, prices continue to reach the stratosphere, and IMHO that's good - the research used to create $1M+ Ferraris often trickles down at some point to a Camry, and the same is true to some degree with high end audio.

In reality, aside from those with upgrade-itis, people stop upgrading when they can no longer hear an improvement.

I've been shocked at the levels of pricing where a benefit can still be heard, but many/most people are not likely to upgrade, especially a generation happy with MP3.

However companies are still doing well and new companies still come along, so the industry as a whole is not dead yet, plus you have companies like Oppo making strides on providing high-end sound at much lower premiums (see the BDP-105/D BD player as well as their headphones.)
 
#1,943 ·
- the research used to create $1M+ Ferraris often trickles down at some point to a Camry...
I believe that Toyota spend a great deal more on R&D than Ferrari; indeed, I think they spend more than any other car manufacturer. I suspect that's why their products are so effective and reliable.


I doubt that a great deal is being spent on the electronic aspects of audiophile R&D since the costs involved would be huge - quite out of the realms of audio companies. I suspect another reason is that the effects on the final sound quality lie elsewhere than electronics - in recording, mixing and loudspeakers.


We can probably be grateful that hi-fi audio chips come to us as a spin off from industrial rather than consumer R&D where the investment is financially worthwhile. I suspect, too, that (in terms of improvements to sound quality) the most important R&D takes place at the likes of Focal-JMLab in France, Sonos in California and even at smaller companies such as Harbeth in the UK.


I was listening to some high quality vinyl, FLAC and 320 MP3 yesterday and I can say that everyone who heard it was impressed with the size and depth of the sound stage created. I think, apart from some unknown Chinese manufacturers, I mostly have Focal-JMLab to thank for that, myself (but I will say I like my Roksan amp!).
 
#1,947 ·
I think it thrives in most any country.
 
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