The $64k question for this group - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 08:15 PM
Member
 
rokbyter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by urapnes1 View Post
Not sure what your criteria was, but it's not the same as mine. Regardless of our differing opinions, the fact still remains that great integrateds are available new or used that are in the OP price range, and through the simple use of a tape-loop or processor loop a subwoofer can be added with minimal pain. Minidsp comes to mind.
Except that integrateds are out as OP needs a tuner.

"Separates are out too as I need a tuner."

The answer to the original question in the thread is no. Are there other ways to get bass management in a 2 or 2.1 channel setup than either a stereo receiver or an AVR? Absolutely. That wasn't the question. It was only my suggestion that whatever he chooses, that he keep bass management in mind.
rokbyter is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 08:20 PM
Senior Member
 
spkr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)
Liked: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
A number of posts either promoting hits to other websites (not allowed on AVS) and posts quoting those posts have been removed.
What about some member's signature with link to other website?
spkr is offline  
post #33 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 08:27 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by rokbyter View Post
Except that integrateds are out as OP needs a tuner.

"Separates are out too as I need a tuner."

The answer to the original question in the thread is no. Are there other ways to get bass management in a 2 or 2.1 channel setup than either a stereo receiver or an AVR? Absolutely. That wasn't the question. It was only my suggestion that whatever he chooses, that he keep bass management in mind.
Some integrates were offered with tuners. Krell had two, linn offered another and I am sure there were others. These are rare but they exist and by definition fit the OP requirements.

I had the krell 300 integrated. Absolutely loved it.
urapnes1 is offline  
post #34 of 42 Old 06-26-2014, 11:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jdcrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 64
If it has a tuner, then by definition it is a receiver, not an integrated amp!
jdcrox is offline  
post #35 of 42 Old 06-26-2014, 12:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia; now run by adults.
Posts: 5,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked: 115
What's with all the tuner malarkey? You can buy a great second hand tuner off ebay for very little if you find an amp in your price range that has the features you want.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #36 of 42 Old 06-26-2014, 12:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,662
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 315
I have a Kenwood integrated amp and a Dynaco FM tuner sitting around doing nothing.
Pay all expenses for packing/shipping and a few bucks for my effort and it's yours. All of it was working fine before I put into storage.

Stereo at it's best. Main In/Pre out makes adding a powered sub a breeze.
Ratman is offline  
post #37 of 42 Old 06-26-2014, 12:25 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcrox View Post
If it has a tuner, then by definition it is a receiver, not an integrated amp!
In general I agree, but some manufacturers release the product as an integrated first, and then offer upgrades to add the tuner. At that point the definition, to me, gets murky. It was born as an integrated but grew a 6th toe...it is still an integrated. Now, if it was a wildly different product, then I could see re-classing it as a receiver or a toaster or anything else.

Mostly, I think it is the manufacturers playing games...I mean if you have a niche product that people equate to as an integrated...why change the publics general classification of it?

I am not arguing with you...but one of the things that I have learned is that nothing is as it seems!
urapnes1 is offline  
post #38 of 42 Old 06-26-2014, 01:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,662
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by urapnes1 View Post
In general I agree, but some manufacturers release the product as an integrated first, and then offer upgrades to add the tuner. At that point the definition, to me, gets murky. It was born as an integrated but grew a 6th toe...it is still an integrated.
Depending on one's "interpretation", murky for sure. But only for that individual.=.

Not all is what it seems. But it's been pretty clear for a few decades what differentiates "separates, integrated and receiver". And... we can now probably add "HTiB" into the murky mix.
Ratman is offline  
post #39 of 42 Old 06-26-2014, 03:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 763 Post(s)
Liked: 1178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Or... with the money saved by not purchasing a 7 channel receiver, just apply that to a good active sub.
Well, there is a problem. An awful lot of Stereo receivers cost more than a comparable 5.1 or 7.1 AVR.

It is all about economies of scale. I'll bet most mainstream hi fi stores sell some multiple of AVRs, maybe 10:1 maybe less, as compared to 2 channel receivers.

Another point - the bass management that is built into some subwoofers (many don't have it at all) is generally substandard compared to that built into AVRs. For example, some subwoofers force you into a substandard, power wasting, fixed-tuned passive crossover for the LR speakers. AVRs generally give you a number of potentially useful options for subwoofer and main crossover frequencies, use active crossovers, and put the crossover in front of the power amp, instead of between the power amp and the LCRS speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Or... get a nice pair of full range speakers, then a sub is probably not necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urapnes1 View Post
Strongly consider this.
Consider so-called full range speakers only if getting the best bass for the buck is not on your agenda.

First off, few so-called full range speakers can hold a candle to a separate sub in the deep bass. Secondly being able to put the sub where it sounds best usually means not putting it where the LR speakers are. So, trying to cover the job of the sub and the LR speakers with just 2 speakers takes away a potentially helpful tool for optimizing system response.

Last edited by arnyk; 06-26-2014 at 03:17 PM.
arnyk is offline  
post #40 of 42 Old 06-26-2014, 07:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
GLBright's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Scenic southcentral Indiana
Posts: 644
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 69
The OP seems to be MIA. Frankly I'm not surprised. He never mentions what speakers he uses/will be using. Too bad. Could have eliminated all the subwoofer BS. Currently actively using 1 stereo receiver and 2 stereo integrated amps. Economies of scale notwithstanding I think stereo items are built to a higher standard. Don't quote me.

HT: Onkyo TX-SR702,Infinity IL60s/IL36c,DefTech PF1500sub,PanasonicPT-AX100,Draper92"screen,SonyBDP-S570,Dish622
Stereo1 Denon PMA-630 amp,TechnicsPL-1300TT,ToshibaSD-4960 uni-player,Infinity Overture 3s
Stereo 2 OnkyoTX-8222 HitachiHT-61S TT,YamahaDV-S586 uni-player,Large Advents (1972)
GLBright is offline  
post #41 of 42 Old 07-02-2014, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
prestonrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by urapnes1 View Post
Not sure what your criteria was, but it's not the same as mine. Regardless of our differing opinions, the fact still remains that great integrateds are available new or used that are in the OP price range, and through the simple use of a tape-loop or processor loop a subwoofer can be added with minimal pain. Minidsp comes to mind.
Sorry I was absent for awhile, I am the OP. I have a set of Bose 601's ca. 1982 and an old Sherwood 2.0 receiver 100 wpc x 2. Unfortunately, the 601's are in dire need of a rehab and woofer edging, but they still sound fabulous.

Since the wife really wants FM, I need the receiver rather than separates.

I just bought a Dennon x2000 AVR to replace the Sherwood thinking it would be an upgrade and also provide room EQ and sub out. Bottom line is, after numerous A/B tests the cheap old Sherwood still sounded better w/crisper and more open highs and presence.

I took the Denon back to Best Buy and decided to buy a Sherwood 4503 ($150...amazing!) instead (has inputs for Internet radio and Internet services like Spotify, pandora, etc,).

I had found the MultiEQ XT of the Dennon really added nothing I couldn't replicate w/a Radio Shack SPL meter and a little patience.

Bott line is that the Sherwood 4503 sounds just as good as the old 4103, (and much better than the Dennon) plus it had a sub out for my HSU VTF2. Working w/the crossover on the sub everything sounds great on the new receiver.

Additionally, I will probably retire the 601's after many years of great service and buy a pair of Sierra Towers or Phil 2's to go w/the sub along w/a pair of PSB m4u2 cans to complete the update deal.

Sound reasonable?

Last edited by prestonrich; 07-02-2014 at 11:20 PM.
prestonrich is offline  
post #42 of 42 Old 07-04-2014, 10:58 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Fransisco Bay Area, USA
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by prestonrich View Post
With a $700-$800 receiver budget will any improvement in sound quality of a good 2.1 ch. receiver (not many remaining other than a few offerings from HK, Yammy, Cambridge and Outlaw), sufficient to overwhelm the room equalization benefits of the 5.1, 7.1 ch. offerings? Music only--no TV. Separates are out too as I need a tuner. No biamping either on this budget.
Marantz offers super musical 2 channel receivers.
AirySound is offline  
Reply 2-Channel Audio

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off