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post #31 of 49 Old 06-29-2014, 01:41 PM
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A comment on 4 Ohm speakers. It is a function of how amplifiers work that the higher the current, the higher the distortion. Sometimes by more than two orders of magnitude. Needless to say, I am not at all a fan of 4 Ohm speakers. IMHO they are a very bad system design and evidence the designer does not understand electronics. Subs, yea OK as the frequencies are low enough and you are likely to have a switching amp anyway.

I am rather fond of Parasound amplifiers. A very good CD player can be had for well under a grand. ( I run an old Rotel and a new NAD) NAD, Cambridge and many other companies still make very nice intigrated amps. Even Sony just came out with one.

The only problem with vintage amps is they need re-capping. Unless you know how, this can cost way more than just buying something better new. Just a fact of physics, electrolytic caps only last about 7 to 10 years.

Most important though, the speakers are what matters. They are the weakest link and most critical is your over results. As I build speakers and amps, I don't have a lot of recommendations in today market. The advice I always share on main speakers: Go listen to Vanderstein 2ce's. They may be 20 years old, but they are the quintessential do-no-wrong speaker. Big, ugly, but they just plain work. Then judge what is better for the price.

Leave some budget for DIY room treatments. 90% of the imaging is related to controlling short distance reflections. It is not the speaker. Surprise! A couple of sheets of OC 409 and some cloth do more for imaging than $50,000 magic speakers. The other good news is the every best speaker wire made is zip cord. Everything else is pure snake oil. Put the money into the speakers.
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post #32 of 49 Old 06-29-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by marquee-moon View Post
I'vent listened to Salk speakers. PSBs are usually very good choice. At your budget I'll definitely try Focal, Dynaudio and ATCs.
Way happy with my Focal here.


bit I am happy with my PSB's too.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #33 of 49 Old 06-30-2014, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
A comment on 4 Ohm speakers. It is a function of how amplifiers work that the higher the current, the higher the distortion. Sometimes by more than two orders of magnitude. Needless to say, I am not at all a fan of 4 Ohm speakers. IMHO they are a very bad system design and evidence the designer does not understand electronics. Subs, yea OK as the frequencies are low enough and you are likely to have a switching amp anyway.

I am rather fond of Parasound amplifiers. A very good CD player can be had for well under a grand. ( I run an old Rotel and a new NAD) NAD, Cambridge and many other companies still make very nice intigrated amps. Even Sony just came out with one.
There are excellent 4 ohm speakers (higher end Sonus Faber come to mind). I do agree about Parasound amps!
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post #34 of 49 Old 06-30-2014, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 0425antgray View Post
Still saving up money , but I am interested in what people would buy if you had a maximum budget of $8,000 for dedicated stereo system. I have not started auditioning speakers yet. As I know this is the best way to select them. And I know once speakers are chosen then you can pair them with the right equipment. Just wanted some ideas. Also the room it would go in now is only temporary because I may move soon. The current room I have now is fairly small maybe 20 x 20. I listen to a broad selection of music, but I love hard rock and techno music.

This is just a rough idea but my thinking was
$2000 -cd player
$2000 -integrated amp
$3500 -speakers (pair). I would prefer floorstanders.

Possibly would consider a subwoofer if needed.
Speakers are the most important thing.
Since you are a "Rocker", I'd recommend.
Either the Golden Ear Triton or the SVS Ultra.

If you buy speakers w/o a built in sub, PSB would be my go-to brand for a great value sub. PSB just plain makes great speakers.

The amp is the next most important thing.
You might like the NAD 375 BEEE- tons of power and great control

I agree with the folks above, for Rock the Oppo disk player is the hands down winner.

With some careful shopping, you could be out the door for under $7K.

Get sme 10 gauge or better speaker cables. I like kimber myself, but there a a lot of great value up options out there. And for $100 interconnect, I love my audioquest black mamba 2s from audioadvisor.

Hope this helps.

Have fun and please post and tell us what you ultimately get.
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post #35 of 49 Old 07-01-2014, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post
There are excellent 4 ohm speakers (higher end Sonus Faber come to mind). I do agree about Parasound amps!
Yes there are, but that does not stop the basic physics of how amplifiers work. Fortunately, many of the manufactures let the tweeter impedance rise and don't put in a Zobel to reduce the inductance, thus reducing high frequency distortion.

Oppo sounds fine, but I have no patience to wait for a blue ray to boot Java when I want to listen to music. So I keep CD players.
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post #36 of 49 Old 07-08-2014, 06:27 PM
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I would go with:

- Ascend Sierra Towers with RAAL
- Pair of Rythmik Audio F15 subwoofers
- Parasound Halo P5 stereo pre amp
- Parasound Halo A23 stereo amp
- Oppo BDP 105D player
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post #37 of 49 Old 07-09-2014, 12:04 AM
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The 105 directly into two of these: https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-1
Forget the the pre-amp, you likely don't need it.
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post #38 of 49 Old 07-09-2014, 12:29 AM
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Interesting opinions here and quite impressive.

At 8 thousand I would consider a few things here -

Speakers
AVR (not stereo pre/amps)
BD player (totally agree that Oppo 105 is THE deal)
sound treatments when/where possible
devices that help keep your system safe (surge protection, brown outs etc.)

If you like Def Tech, give Goldenear a try. The new Triton One might fit the bill or the Triton Seven plus a sub or two. Both have high praise in reviews and of course, best to try them out first like any of the other speakers.

While I have Marantz, I would consider Anthem as it has excellent room correction abilities.

There is no point getting a super duper system if the room you put it in kills the sound. Consider a small budget for some room treatment materials.

Just more peanuts from the gallery here.
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post #39 of 49 Old 07-09-2014, 05:44 PM
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Per the previous post. I purchased Marantz this year over an Anthem even though I got a hard sell on the Anthem line from a local shop based entirely upon the room correction capabilities of the Anthem's (the 710, 510 and 310). After comparing I chose the Marantz because of what the Anthem does not have. They do not have 7.1 analog inputs which I wanted for my Oppo 105. They only have a single LFE output for one subwoofer, while the Marantz has two. Finally the Anthem only has a single pair of speaker outputs for the front L/R channels, while the Marantz can accommodate three pairs of speakers.

Back to the OP's request. I would recommend either of the Oppo players, although if your primary interest is music I would spend the money for the 105 or 105D models.

For subwoofer I would highly recommend one of the GoldenEar Force Field subs. They have a specified audio range that beats out many other subs even ones with larger drivers. I own one and that sub really brings the low end heat to music or movies.

If you need any analog cables (RCA style) to interconnect anything I would highly recommend Blue Jeans Cable. They're made to order, very affordable, and likely would outperform 99.5% of all RCA style cables you could buy at any price point.

JR

Packing a lot of sound into a small room.
266 square feet/2128 cubic feet
7.2 with 9 driven speakers
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post #40 of 49 Old 07-09-2014, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by They_call_me_Roto View Post


If you need any analog cables (RCA style) to interconnect anything I would highly recommend Blue Jeans Cable. They're made to order, very affordable, and likely would outperform 99.5% of all RCA style cables you could buy at any price point.
please do tell why they would out perform 99.5% of all RCA cables you could buy at any price.

Thanks

this ought to be good

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #41 of 49 Old 07-09-2014, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post
please do tell why they would out perform 99.5% of all RCA cables you could buy at any price.

Thanks
I looked at a lot of RCA cables from many different manufacturers. Blue Jeans Cable is the only company I found that actually tells you what kind of cable and connectors they use, and also provides the manufacturers spec sheet for the cables they sell. There are a lot of cable manufacturers out there selling RCA style audio cables that provide absolutely no technical info about the cable or the connectors. What they use instead is a lot of expensive PR writers to come up with these dazzling and mythical descriptions of what makes their cables so much better. Then of course there are the "ultra" cables that bear a price per length that exceeds what the cable should cost if all of the metallic components of the cable were made of pure 24K gold.

That is why I say that if you were to take 200 different RCA cables and test them for a full spectrum of electrical performance you would likely only find one out of 200 that could outperform a similar cable made by Blue Jeans Cable.

You're welcome.

JR

Packing a lot of sound into a small room.
266 square feet/2128 cubic feet
7.2 with 9 driven speakers
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post #42 of 49 Old 07-10-2014, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by They_call_me_Roto View Post
I looked at a lot of RCA cables from many different manufacturers. Blue Jeans Cable is the only company I found that actually tells you what kind of cable and connectors they use, and also provides the manufacturers spec sheet for the cables they sell. There are a lot of cable manufacturers out there selling RCA style audio cables that provide absolutely no technical info about the cable or the connectors. What they use instead is a lot of expensive PR writers to come up with these dazzling and mythical descriptions of what makes their cables so much better. Then of course there are the "ultra" cables that bear a price per length that exceeds what the cable should cost if all of the metallic components of the cable were made of pure 24K gold.

That is why I say that if you were to take 200 different RCA cables and test them for a full spectrum of electrical performance you would likely only find one out of 200 that could outperform a similar cable made by Blue Jeans Cable.

You're welcome.
You said Blue Jean "would" likely out perform the 99.5% of all RCA cables in the market place.

Now you are back peddling. Now you are saying others would not outperform Blue Jean. Better however you have offered nothing to support any statistical likelihood of even your revised bloviating post.

If you don't want to be challenged don't say outlandish stuff. Just say what you know, "I like Blue Jean" would have done fine.

once you start offering quantitative endorsements of your opinions be prepared to support them.

peace broth

I like blue jean too, they just look like crap so I don't use them.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #43 of 49 Old 07-10-2014, 08:43 PM
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$8000, if it was my money...

a pair of emotiva xpa1l's {I just like them 1l's and you can get a pair for $1100 rite now...} or any pair of mono blocks you like
xsp1 preamp
erc3 cd player {may as well have it all match, I can not hear the diff between the oppo and the erc2 {I don't own a 3 yet}...

a pair of uls15 subs and a pair of sierra 2 bookshelfs..
I would use the matching emo xlr cables for the mono blocks and the subs {uls15's have xlr inputs}, pick a audio rack I like the vti racks with the cones on each level http://www.amazon.com/VTI-Series-4-S...9JXZ47E3FBMES6, some speaker stands, and a pair of speaker cables will finish it off I like the choseal stuff http://www.ebay.com/itm/Choseal-LB-5...item2582a1bc3d they wont sound any better than any other cable BUT they look nice for the money, I have a couple sets they are impressive looking and work well, well made, heavy and thick...

All of that and you will most likely have a couple thousand left over if you get b stock......

The uls15's are about the most musical subs I have ever heard, they sound great at low volumes and are capable of some pretty impressive output, the sierra 2's are a great value, they just sound good for the money, built well, easy to place, ect..... I have great luck with emo gear, its affordable and well made, warranty is good, cs is good, price is great, cant complain....
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post #44 of 49 Old 07-11-2014, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by They_call_me_Roto View Post

That is why I say that if you were to take 200 different RCA cables and test them for a full spectrum of electrical performance you would likely only find one out of 200 that could outperform a similar cable made by Blue Jeans Cable.
I've measured the audio performance of a lot of different audio cables. While I was able to measure differences in some important parameters, and even found some measurable differences in actual audio performance, it was like watching ballet performed by microscopic angels dancing on the tip of a pin. Audibility = zero.

Of paramount importance is continuity of both signal and ground connections and absence of shorts. After that it goes downhill really fast. Even shielding does not matter that much in most applications.
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post #45 of 49 Old 07-11-2014, 08:20 AM
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I've measured the audio performance of a lot of different audio cables. While I was able to measure differences in some important parameters, and even found some measurable differences in actual audio performance, it was like watching ballet performed by microscopic angels dancing on the tip of a pin. Audibility = zero.

Of paramount importance is continuity of both signal and ground connections and absence of shorts. After that it goes downhill really fast. Even shielding does not matter that much in most applications.
I seen a system in New Jersey {atlantic city sound and light} years ago where they had tig welded copper rod and tubing as the speaker wire for some big towers with a pair of 1000w mono blocks powering each tower... I asked the genteman at the booth if it made a difference, and he said me "its all for looks and show, I have a roll of Pyle 12ga cable that I can hook up and you wont be able to tell the difference" Other sound guys have told me as long as the cable is large enough and in good shape {and it doesn't have to be that large} cables will never make an audible difference in sq...
Another test I was present for was a pair of speakers {not sure on the brand} and a big amp {300x2} set up using a pair of $8000 cables {they were big and fancy for sure}. then they swapped them out for a pair of solid cables {looked just a shade larger than thermostat wire} and I know I couldn't tell the difference.... John at music dirct was laughing because they were swapping the cables all day and some guys would say WOW night and day and they hadn't even swapped the cables yet...

So anyway, cables are for sure in my opinion, for the most part I make my own, I buy some tech flex in the color I want, knu concepts wire pants, karma cable, some of them amazon.com banana plugs and call it a day. But I do have a couple sets of them large Choseal cables too, for $90 they give you a lot of cable, and they ar big heavy impressive units, so if I am putting something together where the cables are very visible, I will buy them, but that is my limit for a cable $50 each and I have to have been drinking for a while...
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post #46 of 49 Old 07-11-2014, 11:14 PM
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An $8k CD based system for rock and techno:

JBL LSR6332 monitors, $3.2k per pair. THX pm3 certified, and very high dynamic range. Harman actually usees these in their reference room. Perfect response and huge punch at a very nice price. Only problem is not very high on the WAF.
Hsu ULS-15 quad drive, 4.4k. Four sealed 15"s which are extremely linear. With four you can iron out the room response to perfection. Wireless means you can place them anywhere in the room without a spaghetti mess. Or, if you prefer, use the XLRs or high level or low level inputs.
Sony CDP 500, $150. Yeah, you could spend more on an Oppo, but its not like it will sound any better. If the system is really just for CDs, save the money and get a straight up CD Player.
Denon AVR S700, 4 ohm compatible, bass management, room correction equalization, plenty of power for the JBLs, a lot of bang for the buck.
Blue Jeans cable all the way, cause I like how they stuck it to Monster's BS.

There is a system with very high accuracy and very high dynamic range and just a hair over $8k. Turn it up as loud as you want. It should play well in most rooms, so unless your room is an acoustic nightmare, you may not have to go out and get a bunch of treatments.
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post #47 of 49 Old 07-12-2014, 06:29 AM
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... excellent set of suggestions. Not that this system is the only one that would work well but certainly the high concentration of dollars earmarked for speakers and multiple subs (for smoother response) is the smart approach. And the wireless aspect of those subs can help overcome some aesthetic and placement challenges.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #48 of 49 Old 07-13-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
An $8k CD based system for rock and techno:

JBL LSR6332 monitors, $3.2k per pair. THX pm3 certified, and very high dynamic range. Harman actually usees these in their reference room. Perfect response and huge punch at a very nice price. Only problem is not very high on the WAF.
Hsu ULS-15 quad drive, 4.4k. Four sealed 15"s which are extremely linear. With four you can iron out the room response to perfection. Wireless means you can place them anywhere in the room without a spaghetti mess. Or, if you prefer, use the XLRs or high level or low level inputs.
Sony CDP 500, $150. Yeah, you could spend more on an Oppo, but its not like it will sound any better. If the system is really just for CDs, save the money and get a straight up CD Player.
Denon AVR S700, 4 ohm compatible, bass management, room correction equalization, plenty of power for the JBLs, a lot of bang for the buck.
Blue Jeans cable all the way, cause I like how they stuck it to Monster's BS.

There is a system with very high accuracy and very high dynamic range and just a hair over $8k. Turn it up as loud as you want. It should play well in most rooms, so unless your room is an acoustic nightmare, you may not have to go out and get a bunch of treatments.
I have heard them jbls with a pair of outlaw 2200's, HOLY OUTPUT batman, they were hooked in with a single eu218 peavey sub and they rocked, I didnt spend much low volume time with them t was at a party and they were being pushed, but I can tell you them monitors are capable of some output...
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post #49 of 49 Old 07-13-2014, 07:03 PM
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I have heard them jbls with a pair of outlaw 2200's, HOLY OUTPUT batman, they were hooked in with a single eu218 peavey sub and they rocked, I didnt spend much low volume time with them t was at a party and they were being pushed, but I can tell you them monitors are capable of some output...
Unlike other monitors, they are mid-field monitors as opposed to near-field, so they are meant for more output than regular monitors. Still, they are not meant for club level type loudness, and at $1600 each, they aren't ones I would want to abuse. A better speaker for a hard party driving is something with compression drivers, like QSC K speakers.
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