Considering a 2 channel system, listened to B&W, Dynaudio and Focal..need an amp too! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post
I become concerned about a brand like Emotiva when I am not sure of what shortcuts may have been taken in production to keep the lower price.

I know I read here in the past that some products were not in compliance with USA code. That concerns me.

Why?
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post #32 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 02:50 PM
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I don't think it is mismanagement, I think it is a lot of reinvesting...

The funds for reinvestment come from profits.
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post #33 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dac-906 View Post
Not sure if you are alluding to me as not knowing anything about business or naive. I think what is naive is not recognizing that there are different business models and the traditional brick and mortar is not the only way. In fact, a lot of brick and mortar companies have adopted an online model to avoid going the way of the dinosaurs. And there are a lot of successful online companies - Amazon & Dell (at least at the beginning) are perfect examples. It was a conscious decision by the owners of Emotiva from the get go and not because there was no demand for their products.

No one is saying Emotiva is not trying to maximize their profit (i think imcloud alluded to it but I disagree). All companies decide on a price point and profit target when they start a business or introduce a product or enter a market. Then this expectation is adjusted based on the market's reaction.

No one said they're eliminating production cost (where did you see that?). What I said is they eliminated the dealer or distribution network so customers can get "factory direct" prices. As a matter of fact, Emotiva just built a new factory at their headquarter in Tennessee and moving all production stateside.

They renovated their offices too and coming out with more products, which means hiring more people and ramping up on inventory of spare parts. They are doing multiple city roadshow this year as well. That cost money on airfare, hotel, venues or facilities. If they're not maximizing profits where do you think they're getting the money for all these? They're not a public company so the money are all coming from the owner's pocket.

What am I saying here, I'm saying a lot of your apprehension about this company and their products are not well founded.
1 no, not alluding to you

2 yes, many companies have been forced to the web. emotiva has also been forced to the web. no differance

3 well they are eliminating costs somewhere. do you really think 70% saving over comparable product is acheiveable by selling one unit at a time rather than by the truck load/ lol

4 hiring people and doing road shows is a business cost, profits are what is left after these costs. so i have no clue what you are talking about in that section of your post.

5 apprehension is very well founded

peace

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #34 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
The funds for reinvestment come from profits.



net profits is after all costs of doing business have been subtracted out.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #35 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
Why?
because US code among other things limits the likelihood of harm from a product, in electronics fire becomes a concern

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #36 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dac-906 View Post

Don't know why imcloud thinks they're not making money. Emotiva is a private company and therefore don't publish their financial statements. I don't know where he's getting his information. However they just renovated their offices and expanded this year their facility to move production from China to Tennesee. That cost money. Their key employees have been with them for a long time. So again if they're not making money they will not be able to keep these smart guys. They also keep bringing out new products to market. Which means they have to keep adding personnel, facilities, and inventory of parts. A company not making money would not be able to do this.
I didn't say they are not making money, they are just not getting rich, they seem to reinvest into their business, which is rare in todays business climate, most companies are cutting cost of business and taking as much liquid profit as they can...

I have had a few conversations with Dan, I met him in person a couple times and even met his wife, they seem like great people, I always say "see what a mans employees think of him to see what kind of man he is" and Dans employees seem to be very happy...

SO again, not saying they are making products for free by any means or that they are losing money, I am just saying, they have a model that works, they can easily continue to sell what they have how they are for ever and never change a thing, they could probably get away with raising their prices 20% and not take a huge hit on sales since there is still not a lot of competition at 40% over emo prices... But they are reinvesting and trying to build something better, for the consumer not for themselves...
When I asked Dan about price increases for US built equipment and he said they will only go up as much as his overhead does, so he is doing all that work, tiring up all that money on expansion for the same profit %....
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post #37 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by imcloud View Post
I didn't say they are not making money, they are just not getting rich, they seem to reinvest into their business, which is rare in todays business climate, most companies are cutting cost of business and taking as much liquid profit as they can...
.

nonsense

any company will invest whatever it can if above average returns on that investment are anticipated

isn't emotiva a side business? I am sure i read that going back and it would make sense.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #38 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 05:52 PM
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post #39 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post
nonsense

any company will invest whatever it can if above average returns on that investment are anticipated

isn't emotiva a side business? I am sure i read that going back and it would make sense.

not sure if its "nonsense"... Show me another electronics company doing the quantity emo is doing that the owner will sit down with you with a calculator and figure out what the best price he can give you on an item is?

I spoke with Dan for a while, the company makes money but no over night millionaires, he started with Jade Design {emos parent company} but that is normal practice to have multiple layers. I do the same thing, I own a real estate company, a Property maintenance company, and a Property management company. So my real estate company holds all of my property, my contracting company charges the real estate company for services{repairs, upkeep, ect} when they are needed, and my Property management company charges the realestate company for placing renters in property held... If not you will pay more taxes than you make, but anyway my point was the company could charge more, I know I would have paid more, and they can go along not moving any of the work to the US, but they aren't the price are still more than fair and he is moving jobs to the US {I have no reason to believe he would lie and he said the profit stays the same, the price will only increase to cover the added cost...}

As far as it being a "side business", I never heard this, and it seems like it takes a lot of his time, if you were talking about Jade, they both work together, they may as well have one name, it says jade on a lot of the components in the emo gear... The companies have the same local phone number too...


I think it is funny there is always someone that has no actual experience with a certain product, but has a bunch of negative stuff that "I remember hearing somewhere", lol... Buy an amp, try it out, and then publish what you think you can get a upa 2 ch for a few hundred bucks, I spend that on dinner out with the family..
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post #40 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dac-906 View Post
Regarding the test data, you're making this (.1%) sound as if this is bad amplifier design when in reality, and every expert agrees that even a 1.0% distortion is STILL a very good amplifier. Would you call a Pass Lab amplifier a bad sounding amplifier? No... in fact their one of the gold standards (imo). But check one of their amps the Xs300 a $85,000/pair 300w mono and you'll see that it is rated at 1.0% distortion at rated power. Or the Krell Solo 375 a $29,900/pair 375w mono and rated at <0.19% @20Khz on 8 ohm. I think Emotiva is in good company! Another accepted fact by experts is that below 1.0% or even the difference between 0.1% and 0.05% is already inaudible and are just use for marketing purposes.


Lastly, Emotiva is one of the few companies that provide more information about their products (even AP test data) than most say Outlaw. Not saying that Outlaw is bad... but wouldn't you trust a company that is more transparent than one that has very limited information?

Like I said, the best test is to hear them and even better if you can hear them in your own listening environment.

You have given a couple of class A amplifiers, which are a different animal than Emotiva's class AB. Class A amps are sought after for their pleasing distortion qualities(even order vs odd order). My point is simple on the distortion measurements of Emotiva amps. I am not claiming theirs is a bad amp design. I'm not claiming that one can hear .1% distortion. If you go back and re-read my post, all I'm saying is it's cheaper to build a class AB amp @ 200 wpc amp whose distortion curve is already climbing, than to build the same amp whose distortion curve does not climb at the 200 watt level. The second amp will also have more headroom before distortion hits detectible levels(by the human ear). That costs more money. Emotiva cut a corner here to sell it more cheaply. Most of their XPA and UPA amps also have smaller power supplies, caps and less output devices per channel than other companies. All to make a cheaper amp, and like I said in my previous post, THAT IS FINE. What I object to is people claiming that they are just as good as amps costing much more. That's a load of bunk. They make a budget amp that has good build quality, and is worth the money charged. But they are not the amazing deal fanboys make them out to be.

I've owned 3 Emotiva products, so I know of what I speak( I used to be a huge fanboy btw). When compared to other amps I own, the XPA amp fell short. I used to believe that all amps sound the same until this point, and let me tell you I was shocked.

Anyway, on the transparent idea, Emotiva is transparent when they want to be. When it became clear that the Chinese company Tonewinner was heavily involved in designing the UMC-1 and other products, Emotiva clammed up. When it was proved that the XDA-1 was indeed NOT lossless volume controlled, Emotiva was silent on the matter until the model was replaced with the XDA-2 and the remaining XDA-1's were being sold off at a heavy discount. When TacT was unable to implement their product on the XMC, Emotiva was silent on the matter until Dirac had signed on the dotted line to give it a go. Only then did Emotiva update the long suffering customers waiting for their orders that the XMC was being delayed yet again. And Dirac STILL hasn't been installed in the XMC. This past Roadshow event that Emotiva held in various cities, they told not one customer the reason why they couldn't demonstrate Dirac on their flagship product. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

Look, at the end of the day, Emotiva is a company trying to make a buck, and like I keep saying, that is fine. They make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. They make some decent products, some not so good, and they've made some lemons. But I will always differ with the idea that their amps are as good as anything out there. All you have to do is look under the hood if you know what you're looking for. Test them against other brands if you know what to listen for. If not, you'll think Emotiva is king. For the rest of us, the king has no clothes.
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post #41 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 08:08 PM
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check the date here:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=89638

And here:

Emotiva XMC-1 Pre/Pro

Over 5 years? wow.
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1.5RQ > digits > OpenDRC-DI > DEQ2496 > DAC2 > KCT > FPB 350mcx > reQuest > Sweetspot
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post #42 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post
1 no, not alluding to you

2 yes, many companies have been forced to the web. emotiva has also been forced to the web. no differance

3 well they are eliminating costs somewhere. do you really think 70% saving over comparable product is acheiveable by selling one unit at a time rather than by the truck load/ lol

4 hiring people and doing road shows is a business cost, profits are what is left after these costs. so i have no clue what you are talking about in that section of your post.

5 apprehension is very well founded

peace
2. Like I said, Emotiva started as on online seller "factory direct" from the get go. It was not an after thought or reaction as a result of threat to their business survival.

3. For sure they are eliminating cost, as I mentioned, and one area is by cutting the middleman and assembling their product in China where cost is cheaper. All engineering and design are done in Tennessee. So they are cutting cost (like most companies) but I highly doubt they're "cutting corners." That is different and wrong and customers will soon find out. As for the comparable products, have you thought maybe they're 70% over priced? They may sell one or two units at a time (per customer) but certainly they sell enough volume to keep the business viable. The traditional brick & mortar may sell truck loads but it may not be to actual customers but to dealers (called Channel Stuffing). Accountants and auditors don't like that.

4. That's what I mean, all these activities cost money and what I was trying to say was if they're not making enough profit (because they're not maximizing profit potential), they will not be able to afford all these activities.

Hey eljr, I'm not trying to outsmart you here just giving you a different perspective (from a happy Emotiva customer) peace to you too

Sources ---> Clearaudio Concept TT, Onkyo CDP, MacBook Pro/Audirvana
Pre/DAC & Power Amp ---> Emotiva XPS-1 Phono Stage, Emotiva Stealth DC-1 Pre/DAC, Emotiva XPA-1L Monos
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post #43 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by imcloud View Post
I didn't say they are not making money, they are just not getting rich, they seem to reinvest into their business, which is rare in todays business climate, most companies are cutting cost of business and taking as much liquid profit as they can...

I have had a few conversations with Dan, I met him in person a couple times and even met his wife, they seem like great people, I always say "see what a mans employees think of him to see what kind of man he is" and Dans employees seem to be very happy...

SO again, not saying they are making products for free by any means or that they are losing money, I am just saying, they have a model that works, they can easily continue to sell what they have how they are for ever and never change a thing, they could probably get away with raising their prices 20% and not take a huge hit on sales since there is still not a lot of competition at 40% over emo prices... But they are reinvesting and trying to build something better, for the consumer not for themselves...
When I asked Dan about price increases for US built equipment and he said they will only go up as much as his overhead does, so he is doing all that work, tiring up all that money on expansion for the same profit %....
Sorry man, not trying to pick on you. I agree with you, I met Dan last year at the Newport Beach Audio Show and Donnie too. Dan is one of those rare businessman who cares more about making good products than gouging his customer. And that is very clearly stated in the company's website as their mission. Maybe he is a made man and doesn't really need a whole lot of money.

Sources ---> Clearaudio Concept TT, Onkyo CDP, MacBook Pro/Audirvana
Pre/DAC & Power Amp ---> Emotiva XPS-1 Phono Stage, Emotiva Stealth DC-1 Pre/DAC, Emotiva XPA-1L Monos
Speaker ---> Dynaudio Excite X34
Cable ---> Audioquest Type 8 Speaker Cable, Emotiva Interconnect Cables
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post #44 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post
nonsense

any company will invest whatever it can if above average returns on that investment are anticipated

isn't emotiva a side business? I am sure i read that going back and it would make sense.
That's true, but what imcloud is saying is that Emotiva invest back into their business. Other companies invest outside the company, like money market, bonds, and other securities, or in other companies.

Side business??? I suggest you read up on what the company is currently doing... all your information are either erroneous or old.

Sources ---> Clearaudio Concept TT, Onkyo CDP, MacBook Pro/Audirvana
Pre/DAC & Power Amp ---> Emotiva XPS-1 Phono Stage, Emotiva Stealth DC-1 Pre/DAC, Emotiva XPA-1L Monos
Speaker ---> Dynaudio Excite X34
Cable ---> Audioquest Type 8 Speaker Cable, Emotiva Interconnect Cables
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post #45 of 71 Old 07-14-2014, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
You have given a couple of class A amplifiers, which are a different animal than Emotiva's class AB. Class A amps are sought after for their pleasing distortion qualities(even order vs odd order). My point is simple on the distortion measurements of Emotiva amps. I am not claiming theirs is a bad amp design. I'm not claiming that one can hear .1% distortion. If you go back and re-read my post, all I'm saying is it's cheaper to build a class AB amp @ 200 wpc amp whose distortion curve is already climbing, than to build the same amp whose distortion curve does not climb at the 200 watt level. The second amp will also have more headroom before distortion hits detectible levels(by the human ear). That costs more money. Emotiva cut a corner here to sell it more cheaply. Most of their XPA and UPA amps also have smaller power supplies, caps and less output devices per channel than other companies. All to make a cheaper amp, and like I said in my previous post, THAT IS FINE. What I object to is people claiming that they are just as good as amps costing much more. That's a load of bunk. They make a budget amp that has good build quality, and is worth the money charged. But they are not the amazing deal fanboys make them out to be.

I've owned 3 Emotiva products, so I know of what I speak( I used to be a huge fanboy btw). When compared to other amps I own, the XPA amp fell short. I used to believe that all amps sound the same until this point, and let me tell you I was shocked.

Anyway, on the transparent idea, Emotiva is transparent when they want to be. When it became clear that the Chinese company Tonewinner was heavily involved in designing the UMC-1 and other products, Emotiva clammed up. When it was proved that the XDA-1 was indeed NOT lossless volume controlled, Emotiva was silent on the matter until the model was replaced with the XDA-2 and the remaining XDA-1's were being sold off at a heavy discount. When TacT was unable to implement their product on the XMC, Emotiva was silent on the matter until Dirac had signed on the dotted line to give it a go. Only then did Emotiva update the long suffering customers waiting for their orders that the XMC was being delayed yet again. And Dirac STILL hasn't been installed in the XMC. This past Roadshow event that Emotiva held in various cities, they told not one customer the reason why they couldn't demonstrate Dirac on their flagship product. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

Look, at the end of the day, Emotiva is a company trying to make a buck, and like I keep saying, that is fine. They make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. They make some decent products, some not so good, and they've made some lemons. But I will always differ with the idea that their amps are as good as anything out there. All you have to do is look under the hood if you know what you're looking for. Test them against other brands if you know what to listen for. If not, you'll think Emotiva is king. For the rest of us, the king has no clothes.
No no no, you are saying a whole lot of different things here. Whether Class A or AB doesn't matter, no one likes to hear distortion and manufacturers would not design an amp with audible distortion. That being said, and you admitted as much that 0.1% THD is inaudible so why are you raising a big fuzz about Emo's distortion rating? If you can't hear it, why does it matter? I re-read your post and you never talked about manufacturing cost of AB amps but you were putting down Emo for their 0.1% THD and how they're distortion curve is already going up. Even if they're making amps with less power and caps and less output device per channel in order to sell them cheap but these are all known facts. It's not like they hid this from the customer and surprised them. I just checked out Outlaw's 2200 M-Block amp and I don't even see them published how much power supply or storage capacitance they have!

All the other issues you mentioned, I heard some of them and the reason we hear them is a testament to what I'm saying about the company being transparent. Maybe not totally, as you would probably like, but have you heard of any company that do as much? Some information are best kept within the company and the world doesn't need to know everything.

Anyway, all I can say is to each his own. This hobby is very subjective. Maybe to your ear Emo products are not good but not everyone share your opinion.

Sources ---> Clearaudio Concept TT, Onkyo CDP, MacBook Pro/Audirvana
Pre/DAC & Power Amp ---> Emotiva XPS-1 Phono Stage, Emotiva Stealth DC-1 Pre/DAC, Emotiva XPA-1L Monos
Speaker ---> Dynaudio Excite X34
Cable ---> Audioquest Type 8 Speaker Cable, Emotiva Interconnect Cables
Headphone ----> Onkyo ES-CTI300 (SS)
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post #46 of 71 Old 07-15-2014, 06:30 AM
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2. Like I said, Emotiva started as on online seller "factory direct" from the get go. It was not an after thought or reaction as a result of threat to their business survival.

3. For sure they are eliminating cost, as I mentioned, and one area is by cutting the middleman and assembling their product in China where cost is cheaper. All engineering and design are done in Tennessee. So they are cutting cost (like most companies) but I highly doubt they're "cutting corners." That is different and wrong and customers will soon find out. As for the comparable products, have you thought maybe they're 70% over priced? They may sell one or two units at a time (per customer) but certainly they sell enough volume to keep the business viable. The traditional brick & mortar may sell truck loads but it may not be to actual customers but to dealers (called Channel Stuffing). Accountants and auditors don't like that.

4. That's what I mean, all these activities cost money and what I was trying to say was if they're not making enough profit (because they're not maximizing profit potential), they will not be able to afford all these activities.

Hey eljr, I'm not trying to outsmart you here just giving you a different perspective (from a happy Emotiva customer) peace to you too
2 they started as an on line company because they had no other options. what retailer would buy an unbranded product for resale? I already explained what it would take to launch a new product to the marketplace.

3 your reference to channel stuffing is bizarre, all products in the market face price pressures and if you think emotiva saves you 70% off comporable product because it sells less volume, I have a bridge to sell you

4 Read this
, it explains basic terms in simple language.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #47 of 71 Old 07-15-2014, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I've had great success with an Oppo 105 USB DAC and an Emotiva XSP-1 pre-amp for 2-ch. It's just over $2000.
They could be redundant, no?
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post #48 of 71 Old 07-15-2014, 08:47 AM
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It all comes down to what you can afford and enjoy.

My point is if you take a pair of 600w mono blocks from emotiva for $2000 and compare them to any other amplifier on the market, the emo is going to be the better buy, even if you go with a 2 ch amp at half the output, try to find a 2x300 for $2000 that sounds better than the dual 600w mono blocks, it doesn't exist {unless you go class D of course}... SO if that amp is .1% dist at 600w {which you can not hear 1% especially at 600w even with an inefficient speaker say 85db sens @ 3ft 600w is going to be approaching 110db!!!}..

Emo gives you a lot for your money, sure they haven't been perfect, and I will be the first fanboy to say they are making a mistake messing with processors, thats a slippery slope and most likely going to end with you on the bottom, I had a umc1 and was happy with it but when the umc200 came out it cost me under $400 and I sold my umc1 on ebay for $380 and my upgrade card for $300 so moving to the umc200 made me money and that unit has been good since I installed it, its on for hours a day with the kids and the wife and it never misses a beat, BUT- I have heard others that had some issues, and the entire xmc1 situation is out of hand...

I agree with that, 5 years to get a product to market is silly, they should have not let people know about it until it was 6 months out.... Now as far as I know they haven''t taken anyones money for the unit so the fact is you are just waiting for something to be released and have the choice to buy it or not once it is. I personally would not spend $2000 on an HT pro with no amplifier, I would much rather have a Denon 4520ci or Pioneer sc89 that have been proven and have amps built in that can at least drive my surrounds or my entire system if I didn't want separates or my amp was down...

Anyway we have talked about this enough, you either like them or don't, apologies to the OP for this getting so sideways.... The best advice is to demo as much gear in your price range and pick what you are comfortable listening to... The speakers are going to have the most effect on your experience, I can use a lepai 2020 to drive my lores and it sounds just as good as my carver tube amp, my luxman, or my emo mini x...
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post #49 of 71 Old 07-15-2014, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imcloud View Post
It all comes down to what you can afford and enjoy.

My point is if you take a pair of 600w mono blocks from emotiva for $2000 and compare them to any other amplifier on the market, the emo is going to be the better buy, even if you go with a 2 ch amp at half the output, try to find a 2x300 for $2000 that sounds better than the dual 600w mono blocks, it doesn't exist {unless you go class D of course}... SO if that amp is .1% dist at 600w {which you can not hear 1% especially at 600w even with an inefficient speaker say 85db sens @ 3ft 600w is going to be approaching 110db!!!}..

...many fine sounding alternatives from the world of Pro Audio excluded.

On the low end, take the Behringer EP 4000 @ 550 wpc for $349.95 free shipping:

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EP40...5438489&sr=8-1

Other than fan noise, it will sound the same as the rest of the good amplifiers in that power range.
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post #50 of 71 Old 07-15-2014, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
...many fine sounding alternatives from the world of Pro Audio excluded.

On the low end, take the Behringer EP 4000 @ 550 wpc for $349.95 free shipping:

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EP40...5438489&sr=8-1

Other than fan noise, it will sound the same as the rest of the good amplifiers in that power range.
Of course there are plenty of class d options out there, I own a pair of crown XLS amps and like them for my outdoor party system BUT to install them in my house permanently just seems taboo to me, the bright lights, ugly chassis, rack mounts, fans running, ect. Granted they are a good buy for a budget system that aesthetics, fans, lights, triggers, ect are not a concern...

I bought my 2 xls2500's for around $1000 and they sound good and have a lot of power, BUT in the house I couldn't put up with the aesthetics and fan noise. The fans are quite quiet but you will notice it, everyone does... To me class d is for pro audio, car audio, and subwoofers, granted it is and has come a long way, no doubt in my mind the ICE systems, pioneers d3 systems, ect will get perfected and be a big part of home audio in the future, rite now A/B is the best option in my opinion...

I would love to see a company come out with a mechanically silent, in home chassis, 12v trigger activated, 500w, 5 yr warranty, class d mono block, that can be stacked up for HT and paired up for Stereo for $250 each. That would be a game changer for sure, but for some reason its not happening.
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post #51 of 71 Old 07-15-2014, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imcloud View Post
It all comes down to what you can afford and enjoy.

My point is if you take a pair of 600w mono blocks from emotiva for $2000 and compare them to any other amplifier on the market, the emo is going to be the better buy, even if you go with a 2 ch amp at half the output, try to find a 2x300 for $2000 that sounds better than the dual 600w mono blocks, it doesn't exist {unless you go class D of course}... SO if that amp is .1% dist at 600w {which you can not hear 1% especially at 600w even with an inefficient speaker say 85db sens @ 3ft 600w is going to be approaching 110db!!!}..

Emo gives you a lot for your money, sure they haven't been perfect, and I will be the first fanboy to say they are making a mistake messing with processors, thats a slippery slope and most likely going to end with you on the bottom, I had a umc1 and was happy with it but when the umc200 came out it cost me under $400 and I sold my umc1 on ebay for $380 and my upgrade card for $300 so moving to the umc200 made me money and that unit has been good since I installed it, its on for hours a day with the kids and the wife and it never misses a beat, BUT- I have heard others that had some issues, and the entire xmc1 situation is out of hand...

I agree with that, 5 years to get a product to market is silly, they should have not let people know about it until it was 6 months out.... Now as far as I know they haven''t taken anyones money for the unit so the fact is you are just waiting for something to be released and have the choice to buy it or not once it is. I personally would not spend $2000 on an HT pro with no amplifier, I would much rather have a Denon 4520ci or Pioneer sc89 that have been proven and have amps built in that can at least drive my surrounds or my entire system if I didn't want separates or my amp was down...

Anyway we have talked about this enough, you either like them or don't, apologies to the OP for this getting so sideways.... The best advice is to demo as much gear in your price range and pick what you are comfortable listening to... The speakers are going to have the most effect on your experience, I can use a lepai 2020 to drive my lores and it sounds just as good as my carver tube amp, my luxman, or my emo mini x...
+1

Sources ---> Clearaudio Concept TT, Onkyo CDP, MacBook Pro/Audirvana
Pre/DAC & Power Amp ---> Emotiva XPS-1 Phono Stage, Emotiva Stealth DC-1 Pre/DAC, Emotiva XPA-1L Monos
Speaker ---> Dynaudio Excite X34
Cable ---> Audioquest Type 8 Speaker Cable, Emotiva Interconnect Cables
Headphone ----> Onkyo ES-CTI300 (SS)
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post #52 of 71 Old 07-15-2014, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
2 they started as an on line company because they had no other options. what retailer would buy an unbranded product for resale? I already explained what it would take to launch a new product to the marketplace.

3 your reference to channel stuffing is bizarre, all products in the market face price pressures and if you think emotiva saves you 70% off comporable product because it sells less volume, I have a bridge to sell you

4 Read this
, it explains basic terms in simple language.
Now you're being sarcastic... I thought we're having a grown up discussion here. I guess not... so I'm out.

Sources ---> Clearaudio Concept TT, Onkyo CDP, MacBook Pro/Audirvana
Pre/DAC & Power Amp ---> Emotiva XPS-1 Phono Stage, Emotiva Stealth DC-1 Pre/DAC, Emotiva XPA-1L Monos
Speaker ---> Dynaudio Excite X34
Cable ---> Audioquest Type 8 Speaker Cable, Emotiva Interconnect Cables
Headphone ----> Onkyo ES-CTI300 (SS)
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post #53 of 71 Old 07-15-2014, 01:58 PM
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Now you're being sarcastic... I thought we're having a grown up discussion here. I guess not... so I'm out.
what on earth are you talking about?

your posts are confusing and i left you a link to help you express yourself better.

good grief

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #54 of 71 Old 07-15-2014, 03:13 PM
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This topic is not important enough to argue or have hard feelings about, we all have our opinions and preferences no one is wrong, spend your money on what you like and want to support...

HT-Emotiva UMC200 and XPA5, Ascend 340se front stage, 200se surrounds, Dual HSU VTF2's
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Guest parlor-Parasound 2100 outlaw 2200 monos, csb1 bookshelfs, dual SVS sb12nsd subs
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post #55 of 71 Old 07-15-2014, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post

and what the heck is a brightish house sound coming from a SS amp?
I brought a Bryston home to audition long long ago, it was just shrill.

It went back the next day.

Go figure.

I'll be back later...


1.5RQ > digits > OpenDRC-DI > DEQ2496 > DAC2 > KCT > FPB 350mcx > reQuest > Sweetspot
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post #56 of 71 Old 07-20-2014, 02:27 PM
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I just looked at the back of an Emotiva amp and it does not have Underwriters Laboratory (UL) approval. It does indicate CE compliance, which according to Wikipedia, is a self certification program claiming compliance with EU standards. Obtaining UL certification used to be very expensive, requiring submission of the product to UL, who did the testing in their own labs. I'm guessing CE is good enough to prevent major shock and fire hazards, but I don't know if it is as rigorous as the UL standards and, of course, relies on self testing, rather than independent verification.

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post #57 of 71 Old 07-20-2014, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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FYI- Bought Revel Studio 2 speakers and a Hegel H300 integrated amp...
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post #58 of 71 Old 07-20-2014, 06:02 PM
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Well! There it is...

I'll be back later...


1.5RQ > digits > OpenDRC-DI > DEQ2496 > DAC2 > KCT > FPB 350mcx > reQuest > Sweetspot
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post #59 of 71 Old 07-20-2014, 06:37 PM
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FYI- Bought Revel Studio 2 speakers and a Hegel H300 integrated amp...
very nice

why the Hegal? just curious

maybe the revel could use a little more power????

looks like a long time of enjoyment

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #60 of 71 Old 07-20-2014, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post
very nice

why the Hegal? just curious

maybe the revel could use a little more power????

looks like a long time of enjoyment
Hegel looked like the best reasonably priced powerful amp option. Even the Devialet at 2x the price was the same power. I've got no problem jumping to more power if needed!
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