What does "warmth" mean for music? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
  • 2 Post By FMW
  • 1 Post By RayDunzl
  • 1 Post By arnyk
  • 1 Post By 89grand
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 07-12-2014, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
NightScreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Question What does "warmth" mean for music?

I have a program for Mac called Platinum Notes. It basically converts your compressed music to sound better and I really like it but the new version has a mode called "Add Warmth" with 2 options. Gentle Warmth and Hot Vacuum Tube.
I'm sure it's not the same as using a real vacuum tube, they're just trying to mimic it but I'm on a laptop and not really sure if this is what SQ is supposed to be really. It all sounds pretty good to me lol.

My question is, what does "warmth" or vacuum tube sound actually mean for the music? I'm thinking about using this feature to convert all my music but I'm not really sure if it's something I would want.
NightScreams is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 07-12-2014, 05:08 AM
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,661
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1115 Post(s)
Liked: 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightScreams View Post
I have a program for Mac called Platinum Notes. It basically converts your compressed music to sound better and I really like it but the new version has a mode called "Add Warmth" with 2 options. Gentle Warmth and Hot Vacuum Tube.
I'm sure it's not the same as using a real vacuum tube, they're just trying to mimic it but I'm on a laptop and not really sure if this is what SQ is supposed to be really. It all sounds pretty good to me lol.

My question is, what does "warmth" or vacuum tube sound actually mean for the music? I'm thinking about using this feature to convert all my music but I'm not really sure if it's something I would want.
Since that software uses Izotope plugins for processing, "add warmth" is almost certainly a simplified version of the Harmonic Exciter plugin... http://help.izotope.com/docs/ozone/p...ic_exciter.htm

Find out more about Mark Henninger at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
imagic is online now  
post #3 of 17 Old 07-12-2014, 09:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,275
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightScreams View Post
I have a program for Mac called Platinum Notes. It basically converts your compressed music to sound better and I really like it but the new version has a mode called "Add Warmth" with 2 options. Gentle Warmth and Hot Vacuum Tube.
I'm sure it's not the same as using a real vacuum tube, they're just trying to mimic it but I'm on a laptop and not really sure if this is what SQ is supposed to be really. It all sounds pretty good to me lol.

My question is, what does "warmth" or vacuum tube sound actually mean for the music? I'm thinking about using this feature to convert all my music but I'm not really sure if it's something I would want.


What it usually means is some attempt to mask or gloss over distortion that makes music sound harsh.

It is sort of like viewing a poor-quality photograph through a frosted window glass to make it harder to see the imperfections.

In masking the imperfections, of course, the details of the music are also obscured; sort of what you want for elevator music.

If you want truly good sound quality, you need a good source of high-quality music and a high-quality amplifier and speakers.

And of course that is not cheap.
commsysman is offline  
post #4 of 17 Old 07-12-2014, 01:57 PM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 276 Post(s)
Liked: 712
Warm means a reduction in the high frequency content of the sound. My term for it is dark rather than warm.
Marc Wielage and eljr like this.
FMW is online now  
post #5 of 17 Old 07-12-2014, 03:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
RayDunzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 903
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 293
warm: The same as dark, but less tilted. A certain amount of warmth is a normal part of musical sound.


dark: A warm, mellow, excessively rich quality in reproduced sound. The audible effect of a frequency response which is clockwise-tilted across the entire range, so that output diminishes with increasing frequency. Compare "light."


light: Lean and tipped-up. The audible effect of a frequency response which is tilted counterclockwise. Compare "dark."


Audio glossary for subjective reviewing and interpreting measurements
eljr likes this.

I'll be back later...



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
> digits >
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
>
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
>
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
>
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
>
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by RayDunzl; 07-12-2014 at 03:17 PM.
RayDunzl is online now  
post #6 of 17 Old 07-12-2014, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
NightScreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well all that is rather hard to imagine. I guess I would have to listen to comparisons to understand wtf you guys are talking about. Thanks anyway for trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
What it usually means is some attempt to mask or gloss over distortion that makes music sound harsh.

It is sort of like viewing a poor-quality photograph through a frosted window glass to make it harder to see the imperfections.

In masking the imperfections, of course, the details of the music are also obscured; sort of what you want for elevator music.

If you want truly good sound quality, you need a good source of high-quality music and a high-quality amplifier and speakers.

And of course that is not cheap.
The music I purchase is MP3. A $1 for an entire album vs $10 + for a CD. I'll take the concessions. I don't mind that it's not as some studio engineer intended but then again a lot of metal type music isn't recorded that great to begin with.
NightScreams is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 07-14-2014, 04:57 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightScreams View Post
I have a program for Mac called Platinum Notes. It basically converts your compressed music to sound better
Well, that is the hype and I feel like I'm being evangelized by a True Believer.

The first thing to realize is that the above evaluations of the outcomes of running this program are sighted, non-time-synched, non-level matched evaluations. It is easy to predict from the basically flawed evaluation technique that you are going to hear differences, and you are going to hear what you want to hear.

Rather than speculate, I checked out some informed analysis of what the program actually does:

http://www.djtechtools.com/2013/07/1...tinum-notes-4/

"
The Good: High-grade processing using iZotope technology and proprietary algorithms. Several new output formats available, including lossless. Doesn’t overwrite original files. Fast and easy to use.

The Bad: High price compared to other Mixed In Key utilities.

The Bottom Line: Platinum Notes effectively cleans up clipped audio and adjusts the volume of your music collection to a standard level without altering the dynamics of the tracks. It’s not a magical, one-click solution to make everything suddenly sound way more awesome. Rather, it’s a utilitarian workflow tool that many professionals have found worthy of adding to their track-preparation routine.
"

A typical set of corrections applied by this tool (from the above article) included\

"
Corrected 77 cents of pitch
• Applied expansion dynamics for all 10 files
• Adjusted volume by 28.8 db total
• Fixed 55,973 clipped peaks
"

Makes you wonder who would let work that bad out of their shop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightScreams View Post
and I really like it but the new version has a mode called "Add Warmth" with 2 options. Gentle Warmth and Hot Vacuum Tube.

I'm sure it's not the same as using a real vacuum tube, they're just trying to mimic it but I'm on a laptop and not really sure if this is what SQ is supposed to be really. It all sounds pretty good to me lol.
Again, its not clear exactly what is happening to your music. If you are processing lossy-compressed files with this progam and producing lossy-compressed files there is a hidden bugabear in the works and that is the inherent potentially serious loss of sound associated with decompressing lossy files and then re-encoding them again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightScreams View Post
My question is, what does "warmth" or vacuum tube sound actually mean for the music? I'm thinking about using this feature to convert all my music but I'm not really sure if it's something I would want.
The always-correct answer is that these words (and they are only words) mean whatever their authors want them to mean. There are no formal definitions for them, particularly "vacuum tube sound". Reality is that good quality vacuum tube equipment can be sonically transparent, which means that it has no audible effect on the sound.

As far as "warmth" goes, it comes closer to having better understood meanings, but it is still vague. It is more lows or less highs or isn't it true that more lows and less highs are two sides of the same coin?

Mt take on this whole thing that from a recording sound quality view point, it is arguable that the golden age of high fidelity recording may have run from the early-mid 1970s to the early 1990s. Those were the days when the equipment if properly used had good accuracy, but most people weren't overly comfortable with it, so they didn't often outsmart themselves with it. Today if people don't overthink the problem even more accurate and better sounding recordings can be made, but there seems to be a lot of over-thinking and over-processing going on. Hence programs like these who excuse for living is undoing retroactively what should have never been done in the first place. It is far, far, far better to never make the mistake than to try to compensate for it after it was made.
Marc Wielage likes this.
arnyk is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 07-14-2014, 07:58 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sivadselim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 16,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 68
"Warm" and "dark" are not the same thing at all. This is a common misconception.

"Warm" is not the opposite of "bright".

A speaker can be both "warm" and "bright".

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
sivadselim is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 07-14-2014, 12:01 PM
Senior Member
 
89grand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 57
I'd be real hesitant to use anything that added basically eq to all of my music. I think if most music needs eq to sound better, there is a problem in the system. Sure I have some music that sounds kind of bad like old Punk and whatnot, but when you have a fairly revealing system, it can't mask bad recordings, nor would I want it to, because anything that would make them sounded better, would make great sounding recordings sound worse.
Marc Wielage likes this.
89grand is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 07-14-2014, 12:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia; now run by adults.
Posts: 5,284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 72
^^ Or you could simply apply such processing to titles you think it improves the sound of, then play the processed files back from your storage which in my case is a server. Original 'unmodified' files could be safely kept elsewhere.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 07-14-2014, 01:46 PM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 276 Post(s)
Liked: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post
"Warm" and "dark" are not the same thing at all. This is a common misconception.

"Warm" is not the opposite of "bright".

A speaker can be both "warm" and "bright".

Now there is new twist.
FMW is online now  
post #12 of 17 Old 07-14-2014, 01:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sivadselim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 16,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
Now there is new twist.
nope

"Warm" describes the midrange character of a speaker. And it doesn't mean it sounds cozy.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
sivadselim is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 07-14-2014, 08:01 PM
Member
 
phillyd32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Warm: Boost in the low-mid range
Cold: Boost in the high-mid range
Dark: An overall downward tilt.
Bright: An overall upward tilt.

Source: Head-fi
phillyd32 is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 07-14-2014, 08:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Marc Wielage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
Today if people don't overthink the problem even more accurate and better sounding recordings can be made, but there seems to be a lot of over-thinking and over-processing going on. Hence programs like these who excuse for living is undoing retroactively what should have never been done in the first place. It is far, far, far better to never make the mistake than to try to compensate for it after it was made.
You are very wise. This is 100% the way I feel as well. There's far, far too much "3 steps forward / 2 steps back" thinking in modern electronics, particularly when they're trying to solve problems that aren't really there.

The other flaw is when they try to put back in what somebody else has taken out. There's gotta be 50 companies out there with magic algorithms designed to make low-res MP3's sound like high-res audio files. It's just ludicrous to think that they can fill in all the missing bits and get rid of all the lossy artifacts. I concede that they're changing the sound in some way, but making it better? I'm very skeptical of this.

Having said that: iZotope is an amazing company and I've used some of their plug-ins (like RX3 Advanced) to clean up problematic dialogue recorded in the field. In some cases, iZotope's software can do miracles, including their manual de-clipping tool. But it takes a lot of user intervention and judgement calls for best results. And I draw the line at enhancing a finished mix. That ain't kosher to me, and the results are going to unpredictable and not give you what the original musicians and producers intended.

Last edited by Marc Wielage; 07-14-2014 at 08:19 PM.
Marc Wielage is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 07-14-2014, 11:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kiwi2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 144
This chart puts 'warmth' in the 150hz to 250hz range...

www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

Right near the bottom of a lot of instruments and vocals.

If your room gives a bad dip in the frequency response in that range then you are certainly going to lack warmth. Male vocals in particular will lack the last bit of depth.
kiwi2 is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 07-19-2014, 04:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
stef2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 36
I like my music to sound warm and bright at the same time. That is why I always turn off the lights for critical listening.

Stef
stef2 is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 07-20-2014, 10:54 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sivadselim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 16,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
I like my music to sound warm and bright at the same time. That is why I always turn off the lights for critical listening.
But are you holding your mouth right?

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
sivadselim is offline  
Reply 2 Channel Audio

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off