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post #1 of 19 Old 07-30-2014, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Utterly clueless 2 channel music and movie system help

Ok, I've donned my flame retardant suit as I know I'm going to make a complete nincompoop out of myself on this mostly likely, so here it goes.

First off, thanks in advance for your patience and any help you can offer.

Second, here is my current setup :

Sony (2013) BDP-S790 Blu Ray (coaxial digital audio to AVR, HDMI to Sony TV)
Sony 46" LCD
Marantz (approx 2001) SR8500 AV Surround Receiver (AVR)
Monitor Audio (approx 2001) Silver 8i front floorstanding speakers
Incredibly lame Motorola box for FIOS TV (optical audio to AVR, HDMI to Sony TV)

Most importantly : what do I use this for ? :

CDs played on the Sony BluRay thru the Marantz
Blu Ray discs on the Sony, Audio thru the Marantz to Monitor Audio, video to Sony TV (dont use Sony TV audio at all)
Apple iPod through the Marantz - 2 ch audio

Soooo, first off, I'm planning on doing some upgrading, maybe a little, maybe a lot. But before I get to that, may I simply ask, is there ANY reason at all I should be using an AVR when I only have two speakers? I mean, assume Im never going to have more than 2 speakers. I thought I was going to get more speakers, but I didnt because there aren't good places to put a center speaker, I dont want wires around the place for rear channel, etc.

Or alternatively, assume I'd like to add a subwoofer to this, so I need at least a 3 channel amp, which probably means a 5.1, which I already have. So Im probably set up OK for that, as far as components.

That said, I just randomly hooked these things up with no idea whether this was the way to go (optical audio and coax) for my particular usage. As for that, I dont plan to do anythign different, except if I get a unit with Airplay, which would mean I could remove the iPod (which is what I want to do) and just stream from my iPhone. But I digress...

The thing is I dont really want any more speakers. Id just like to have a better pair of Monitor Audio speakers (likely the new silver 8s) and then the Marantz UD7007. So...imagine I got those, and stayed with the two speakers. I could keep the SR8500 and probably be OK. But what Id really like is better audio for both movie and music, and I have no idea whether to get a two channel amp, an integrated amp, or an AVR.

Ive looked at :
Marantz SR7008 7.1 AVR
Marantz PM-14S1 integrated amp
Marantz PM8005 integrated amp

and have only started to scratch the surface of other brands. I dont really want to switch from Marantz only because I really like the general quality of the sound I'm getting now.

But I feel like a complete doofus that I just threw this together and it's never really been properly setup. I mean, I have no idea what the amp is doing once it gets a signal, or how it's dealing with the bluray info and how it ends up coming out of two speakers. So there is a good chance the audio cable connections Im using are not ideal. And Im sure there are some important settings on the AVR that I've never managed to adjust the right way, so any thoughts on that would be nice to hear.

My one complaint is that when watching movies, it isnt always easy to hear the dialogue clearly. That would be the one thing I'd like to improve, but sadly, I dont see any way to set up a center channel speaker (since only the floor is an option space wise, and Ive heard only a complete moron would put a center channel speaker on the floor.)

Ok, um, well, that is all for now.

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post #2 of 19 Old 07-30-2014, 06:17 PM
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is there ANY reason at all I should be using an AVR when I only have two speakers?

There's one: room correction. Assuming the AVR offers this.

Or alternatively, assume I'd like to add a subwoofer to this, so I need at least a 3 channel amp

No, adding a sub makes it 2.1, not 3, because the sub will be self-powered. But that adds a second benefit to an AVR: bass management.

But what Id really like is better audio for both movie and music, and I have no idea whether to get a two channel amp, an integrated amp, or an AVR.

Then what you should really get a better speakers. maybe a better AVR if yours doesn't have room correction.

My one complaint is that when watching movies, it isnt always easy to hear the dialogue clearly. That would be the one thing I'd like to improve, but sadly, I dont see any way to set up a center channel speaker (since only the floor is an option space wise, and Ive heard only a complete moron would put a center channel speaker on the floor.)

So don't put a center channel on the floor. Buy a third speaker that matches your other two and put it on the floor.

There may also be a setting on the Blu-Ray player that improves dialog when using only two speakers. Every manufacturer calls it something different, so you may have to read the manual closely.

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post #3 of 19 Old 07-30-2014, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post
is there ANY reason at all I should be using an AVR when I only have two speakers?

There's one: room correction. Assuming the AVR offers this.

Or alternatively, assume I'd like to add a subwoofer to this, so I need at least a 3 channel amp

No, adding a sub makes it 2.1, not 3, because the sub will be self-powered. But that adds a second benefit to an AVR: bass management.

But what Id really like is better audio for both movie and music, and I have no idea whether to get a two channel amp, an integrated amp, or an AVR.

Then what you should really get a better speakers. maybe a better AVR if yours doesn't have room correction.

My one complaint is that when watching movies, it isnt always easy to hear the dialogue clearly. That would be the one thing I'd like to improve, but sadly, I dont see any way to set up a center channel speaker (since only the floor is an option space wise, and Ive heard only a complete moron would put a center channel speaker on the floor.)

So don't put a center channel on the floor. Buy a third speaker that matches your other two and put it on the floor.

There may also be a setting on the Blu-Ray player that improves dialog when using only two speakers. Every manufacturer calls it something different, so you may have to read the manual closely.
Thanks for the info.

Sorry my mixup on the 3 channel - I kind of knew that, as the 3 channel would be relevant for the center speaker setup, and 3.1 with the sub.

Ah, room correction. I forgot about that. The SR7008 has Audyssey (sp) so that would be a benefit, especially as I have a room with vaulted ceilings, which is probably acoustically challenging.

My speakers are pretty good, but pretty old, and Im sure I can do better, so that is a likely upgrade. And if room correction is that helpful, then perhaps the AVR is the way to go, especially as it leaves the option for center channel.

Speaking of that, how would another identical speaker work as a center? The thing I have issues with, is that the TV is in the center, so the center speaker cant really go in the center, unless it is horizontal, and there is no way to fit anything but a tiny speaker in the media console below the tv, and then perhaps it is too low. And an upright would look strange off to the side I think. Now, I suppose I could do a small center speaker wall mounted above the tv, right? Im just not keen on that look, or having to drill and mount a speaker...or perhaps I could put a small shelf above, and lay the speaker sideways? Hmm...

I will check the Sony manual to see if there is a setting for 2 channel audio improvement.

thanks!
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-30-2014, 08:05 PM
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Your current receiver has some level of room correction already.

MRAC (Marantz Room Acoustic Calibration)

Have you read your manual recently?

http://us.marantz.com/DocumentMaster..._Final_Eng.pdf

I'll be back later...


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post #5 of 19 Old 07-31-2014, 02:36 AM
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I have only two channel (two supercharged song towers) and no sub. I do use an AVR. One its cost effective. Two as the Mcnarus has mentioned it has room correction. Most importantly the thing that I like about an AVR is Multieq. Think of it as high tech loudness button which adjusts frequency response as a function of volume so that when playing music at any volume it maintains that 'fullness'. Google Fletcher/Munson curve which talks about the ears response to various frequencies as a function of loudness. Given music is mixed at reference, with multieq, you'll always hear the same frequency response regardless of volume.

For movies, Audyseey is even more important for a two channel system. Without having a dedicated center channel where speech comes from, sometimes the dialog will get lost in a two channel system on movies with lots of loud sound effects. No problem, I use audyssey dynamic volume, evening mode, which will bring out the dialog more and suppress the loud sound effects.

So definitely, upgrade an AVR to audyssey equipped with multieq and dynamic volume. If you plan on a sub, get one with Audyssey X32 and sub eq as well.
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post #6 of 19 Old 07-31-2014, 07:27 AM
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I think you are spending too much money on the electronics, and not enough on the speakers, where you will actually see an improvement in sound.

Marantz is nice, but you are essentially just paying more Denon's luxury brand. I think the Denon AVR-X4000 would be a better choice, it has Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and SubEQ HT, and all the same bells and whistles as the Marantz, for about $800 less.

Instead of the UD7007, get an Oppo BDP-105, it's the same price but a better unit in my opinion.

Take that $800 and buy yourself a better pair of bookshelves, I would recommend going to an audio shop and listening to various speakers.

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post #7 of 19 Old 07-31-2014, 07:57 AM
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Rereading your original post:

"But I feel like a complete doofus that I just threw this together and it's never really been properly setup. I mean, I have no idea what the amp is doing once it gets a signal, or how it's dealing with the bluray info and how it ends up coming out of two speakers. So there is a good chance the audio cable connections Im using are not ideal. And Im sure there are some important settings on the AVR that I've never managed to adjust the right way, so any thoughts on that would be nice to hear."

Why don't you look a little closer at what you have. Buy new stuff and remain clueless? Is that the plan?

I'll be back later...


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post #8 of 19 Old 07-31-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post
Speaking of that, how would another identical speaker work as a center? The thing I have issues with, is that the TV is in the center, so the center speaker cant really go in the center, unless it is horizontal, and there is no way to fit anything but a tiny speaker in the media console below the tv, and then perhaps it is too low. And an upright would look strange off to the side I think. Now, I suppose I could do a small center speaker wall mounted above the tv, right? Im just not keen on that look, or having to drill and mount a speaker...or perhaps I could put a small shelf above, and lay the speaker sideways? Hmm...
If you are going to position the speaker horizontally, then you need the matching center channel created by the manufacturer to go with your main speakers. Vertical speakers are typically not designed for horizontal placement, which is the whole reason for separate center channel designs.

Directly above the TV does sound like your best option.

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post #9 of 19 Old 07-31-2014, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post
The thing I have issues with, is that the TV is in the center, so the center speaker cant really go in the center, unless it is horizontal, and there is no way to fit anything but a tiny speaker in the media console below the tv, and then perhaps it is too low.

thanks!
Have you considered getting a riser to put the TV on that would allow a normal (horizontal) center channel?

Something along these lines, but bigger (I know they make them, but don't have time to search right now...)

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post #10 of 19 Old 07-31-2014, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
I think you are spending too much money on the electronics, and not enough on the speakers, where you will actually see an improvement in sound.

Marantz is nice, but you are essentially just paying more Denon's luxury brand. I think the Denon AVR-X4000 would be a better choice, it has Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and SubEQ HT, and all the same bells and whistles as the Marantz, for about $800 less.

Instead of the UD7007, get an Oppo BDP-105, it's the same price but a better unit in my opinion.

Take that $800 and buy yourself a better pair of bookshelves, I would recommend going to an audio shop and listening to various speakers.
The Denon is a great choice, as is the Oppo. I have the 95 and love it. But unless you are doing strictly analog save your money and get the Oppo 103 not the 105. That will save you another 700 bucks and the 103 can do everythingn the 105 can. That puts your total savings to 1500 bucks. (Probably more as you can get a refurb x4000 from accessoriesforless.)

The monitor audio silver 8s are 2000 a pair. With the 1500 bucks savings added to that, you can get a much better speaker. I"ll never need another speaker now that I've bought Salk Supercharged Song Towers. (3495) Ascend Acoutics makes some pretty good stuff as well. Both of these are internet direct manufacturers, the Salk higher end in their lineup.
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post #11 of 19 Old 07-31-2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post
The Denon is a great choice, as is the Oppo. I have the 95 and love it. But unless you are doing strictly analog save your money and get the Oppo 103 not the 105. That will save you another 700 bucks and the 103 can do everythingn the 105 can. That puts your total savings to 1500 bucks. (Probably more as you can get a refurb x4000 from accessoriesforless.)

The monitor audio silver 8s are 2000 a pair. With the 1500 bucks savings added to that, you can get a much better speaker. I"ll never need another speaker now that I've bought Salk Supercharged Song Towers. (3495) Ascend Acoutics makes some pretty good stuff as well. Both of these are internet direct manufacturers, the Salk higher end in their lineup.
+1

It's so easy to get caught up in spending too much in electronics. Shoot for the best speakers you can

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post #12 of 19 Old 08-02-2014, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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+1

It's so easy to get caught up in spending too much in electronics. Shoot for the best speakers you can
Thanks for all the advice - a few more points on my situation.

I dont have a lot of time to invest in learning, sadly, as work and family life takes up just about every moment. My experience with fumbling through the Marantz guide and the horrible user interface on the unit was rather unpleasant, so Ive not had the patience to deal with that, especially when I know that a newer amp would have a much better and more intuitive GUI for such things. The SR8500's interface is the kind of thing I have no tolerance for. That said, I'm not opposed to learning, quite the contrary, I just dont want to be driven to insanity in the process.


Ray – I have looked at the manual, but unfortunately, I don’t have the microphone that came with the AVR, and cant do the MRAC setup. I suppose I could get another microphone, but Id probably screw that up and get the wrong one. :-/ Or maybe any old one will do, but from waht I've seen, this one looks "different"


Glangford – thanks for the info on the sub, as that is a potential upgrade that works pretty easily with the aesthetic and space of my room, and could be quite helpful.

Transmaniacon – I appreciate your point, and mine is not to overspend, it’s just that I have the money, so it gives me more options. That is not to say that money solves all problems, but it allows the helpful people here to offer a wider range of suggestions. It’s good to know where the money is best spent, eg. Speakers rather than a new AVR, and just use the MRAC on the existing AVR. Of course, I might just use the existing as the AVR in a second home theater setup in the house, so it might be both new floorstanders and AVR in the large set, and bookshelves and the old AVR in the new setup.

Ive read a little bit about the Denon vs Marantz issue – yes, they are from the same parent company, but supposedly they aren’t quite identical. That said, it could well be true that for the extra $, you don’t get a good value.

I do plan to do some listening to equipment and speakers, but wont have time for that until next month, so for now, just doing research and getting more informed opinions.

Ray – again, I DO want to learn, but time for dealing with difficult electronics is not how I feel I want to do it. But perhaps after I spend some more time here talking to people that have been through these things, I’ll feel less lost in the wilderness and more equipped to go through that process with less frustration and perhaps more success.

Cel4145 – appreciate the info on the center. Putting a vertical on its side seemed an odd thing to do, so I didn’t plan to go there. Perhaps I can find my way around the space limitations as well as making things look appealing. There is, lets just say, some reluctance in some parts of the homestead to cluttering up the viewing area with a whole lot of equipment. And wires are another problem, so a wall mount above the TV means Id have to figure out how to run the wire in the wall. FUN! (ugh)

Gecko – thx for the info on the riser, but that options has been well and fully ruled out and shant be brought up again.



I think generally, before I go putting $ into a new AVR, Id at least like to try out the MRAC and perhaps a sub, and see what that does to my current sound situation. Next step sounds like upgrading the speakers. I have heard some newer speakers, but havent invested time in going out and hearing a lot of them. One I did like, that I think would be good for my smaller setup, is he Wharfedale 10.2 Diamond. Even this bookshelf speaker has a more balanced, fuller sound than the Monitor Audio Silver 8i Im running. I guess speakers come a bit of a ways in 15 years. So, in all likelihood, the MA pair will go on eBay, and a set of bookshelves downstairs, and then a search for floorstanders for the larger space.



Cheers!




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post #13 of 19 Old 08-03-2014, 04:31 AM
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On a final note, AVRs have come a long way since 2001. I'm not sure how much effort I'd spend with that Marantz. The GUI is much improved nowadays. My denon is pretty idiot proof. Plug in the mic, run audyseey and everything pretty much sets itself. Plug in HDMI from BD player and HDMI from AVR to TV and you are done.
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post #14 of 19 Old 08-03-2014, 05:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post

...here is my current setup :

Sony (2013) BDP-S790 Blu Ray (coaxial digital audio to AVR, HDMI to Sony TV)
Sony 46" LCD
Marantz (approx 2001) SR8500 AV Surround Receiver (AVR)
Monitor Audio (approx 2001) Silver 8i front floorstanding speakers
Incredibly lame Motorola box for FIOS TV (optical audio to AVR, HDMI to Sony TV)

Most importantly : what do I use this for ? :

CDs played on the Sony BluRay thru the Marantz
Blu Ray discs on the Sony, Audio thru the Marantz to Monitor Audio, video to Sony TV (dont use Sony TV audio at all)
Apple iPod through the Marantz - 2 ch audio

Soooo, first off, I'm planning on doing some upgrading, maybe a little, maybe a lot. But before I get to that, may I simply ask, is there ANY reason at all I should be using an AVR when I only have two speakers? I mean, assume Im never going to have more than 2 speakers. I thought I was going to get more speakers, but I didnt because there aren't good places to put a center speaker, I dont want wires around the place for rear channel, etc.
Using an AVR with just 2 speakers is actually a very good and cost effective move. Price the 2-channel only alternatives, and you may agree with me and be mystified as why one should pay so much more for so much less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post
Or alternatively, assume I'd like to add a subwoofer to this, so I need at least a 3 channel amp, which probably means a 5.1, which I already have. So Im probably set up OK for that, as far as components.
No, the subwoofer has its own amp. The feature of the 5.1 AVR that comes to the forefront is bass management. There's a RCA jack on the back panel that is marked something like Subwoofer output (on your device it appears to be marked SW), and that is a very valuable resource.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post
That said, I just randomly hooked these things up with no idea whether this was the way to go (optical audio and coax) for my particular usage. As for that, I dont plan to do anythign different, except if I get a unit with Airplay, which would mean I could remove the iPod (which is what I want to do) and just stream from my iPhone. But I digress...
If both the source and the AVR have HDMI jacks, that is your preferred means of interconnection. The optical and coax are legacy features for compatibility with older-tech devices that lack HDMI. Your existing AVR seems to have no HDMI, but it does have DVI inputs. The DVI inputs may or may not support digital sound, but they do generally support digital video from HDMI sources. A $5 passive adaptor will make them accept input from a HDMI source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post
The thing is I dont really want any more speakers. Id just like to have a better pair of Monitor Audio speakers (likely the new silver 8s) and then the Marantz UD7007. So...imagine I got those, and stayed with the two speakers. I could keep the SR8500 and probably be OK. But what Id really like is better audio for both movie and music, and I have no idea whether to get a two channel amp, an integrated amp, or an AVR.
I'd justify upgrading the AVR to get modern inputs and features, but that is probably not your greatest most immediate need. What you need is a subwoofer or two or three. That can give you a big, big SQ upgrade and extend the utility of the old receiver and speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post
Ive looked at :
Marantz SR7008 7.1 AVR
Marantz PM-14S1 integrated amp
Marantz PM8005 integrated amp
Forget the integrated amps.

I wouldn't pay a lot to get Marantz over Denon as they are both made in the same factory and engineered by the same engineers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post
and have only started to scratch the surface of other brands. I dont really want to switch from Marantz only because I really like the general quality of the sound I'm getting now.
A given Marantz generally sounds no different than a comparable Denon. A high end AVR mostly differs from a low end AVR in terms of features, not SQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post
But I feel like a complete doofus that I just threw this together and it's never really been properly setup. I mean, I have no idea what the amp is doing once it gets a signal, or how it's dealing with the bluray info and how it ends up coming out of two speakers. So there is a good chance the audio cable connections Im using are not ideal. And Im sure there are some important settings on the AVR that I've never managed to adjust the right way, so any thoughts on that would be nice to hear.
Your big mistake was not starting out with a good subwoofer. You should correct that first, and then start looking at alternative speaker locations and room acoustics. If room acoustics pushes you into a modern AVR with built in system optimization facilities and perhaps better network music player support, then you can go there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post
My one complaint is that when watching movies, it isnt always easy to hear the dialogue clearly. That would be the one thing I'd like to improve, but sadly, I dont see any way to set up a center channel speaker (since only the floor is an option space wise, and Ive heard only a complete moron would put a center channel speaker on the floor.)
Well, improved dialog and soundstaging and a soundstage that is more effectively distributed among your listening locations is one of the main justifications for having a center channel speaker. You'll have to convince me (with a picture or a drawing) that you have better options for the center channel than the floor.

If you used a floor-standing main speaker standing on the floor as your center channel speaker that would not necessarily be a bad thing.
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post #15 of 19 Old 08-04-2014, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post
On a final note, AVRs have come a long way since 2001. I'm not sure how much effort I'd spend with that Marantz. The GUI is much improved nowadays. My denon is pretty idiot proof. Plug in the mic, run audyseey and everything pretty much sets itself. Plug in HDMI from BD player and HDMI from AVR to TV and you are done.
Well, one other reason that the interface is horrible is that Im only using the one on the unit, as there is no video out to the TV at the moment. Maybe if I set that up the adjustment process would drive me insane slightly more slowly.
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post #16 of 19 Old 08-04-2014, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
Using an AVR with just 2 speakers is actually a very good and cost effective move. Price the 2-channel only alternatives, and you may agree with me and be mystified as why one should pay so much more for so much less.



No, the subwoofer has its own amp. The feature of the 5.1 AVR that comes to the forefront is bass management. There's a RCA jack on the back panel that is marked something like Subwoofer output (on your device it appears to be marked SW), and that is a very valuable resource.



If both the source and the AVR have HDMI jacks, that is your preferred means of interconnection. The optical and coax are legacy features for compatibility with older-tech devices that lack HDMI. Your existing AVR seems to have no HDMI, but it does have DVI inputs. The DVI inputs may or may not support digital sound, but they do generally support digital video from HDMI sources. A $5 passive adaptor will make them accept input from a HDMI source.



I'd justify upgrading the AVR to get modern inputs and features, but that is probably not your greatest most immediate need. What you need is a subwoofer or two or three. That can give you a big, big SQ upgrade and extend the utility of the old receiver and speakers.



Forget the integrated amps.

I wouldn't pay a lot to get Marantz over Denon as they are both made in the same factory and engineered by the same engineers.



A given Marantz generally sounds no different than a comparable Denon. A high end AVR mostly differs from a low end AVR in terms of features, not SQ.



Your big mistake was not starting out with a good subwoofer. You should correct that first, and then start looking at alternative speaker locations and room acoustics. If room acoustics pushes you into a modern AVR with built in system optimization facilities and perhaps better network music player support, then you can go there.



Well, improved dialog and soundstaging and a soundstage that is more effectively distributed among your listening locations is one of the main justifications for having a center channel speaker. You'll have to convince me (with a picture or a drawing) that you have better options for the center channel than the floor.

If you used a floor-standing main speaker standing on the floor as your center channel speaker that would not necessarily be a bad thing.
arynk -

It appears you are in good company on your assessment of the value of two channel amps. I dont really need to pay thousands more for some improvement in sound that I might not even be able to discern, while having fewer options (no multichannel, etc.)

Yes, I was mistaken on the subwoofer. But I did look at my manual (shocking, I know) and my amp and there is a single subwoofer out, and supposedly you can even hook up two powered subwoofers if you use a Y connector out of it.

As for the HDMI on the SR8500, yup...doesnt exist. DVI-D does, but here is what the oh so helpful manual says (and I quote) : "DVI-D INPUT/OUTPUT are preparing for the audio/video equipment only." Uh, yeah. OK. So, back when I originally set this up a decade ago, I didnt get an HDMI DVD adapter, and just used the coax. I dont remember how I came to that decision, but I suspect it had something to do with the above description. Way back when, when I had more time to deal with this stuff, I somehow thought that HDMI didnt carry audio (or I could have been even more clueless then) - so I went with coax. But it might have also been because I had a DVD player without HDMI. I forget. Do you think my setup would benefit from getting an adapter and using a DVI-D cable? From what Ive read, the difference between HDMI and coax or optical audio is negligible. Probably even more so when you only have two speakers.

Quite honestly, I dont like the look of the front panel on the Denon. Too many words all over espousing its greatness. Kind of hideous.

On the sub, I guess I need to do some research on that, as I dont want to end up buying one that matches my current equipment, but then is not suited to any new equipment. Im probably living in the past in that I always hated the effect that the subwoofers of old gave - perhaps because the ones I was hearing then were junk. They just muddied everything up.

Did you mean Id have to convince you that I DONT have a better place to put a center channel than the floor? Im interpreting what you wrote as to mean that putting it on the floor is OK, which doesnt seem to be what Ive read elsewhere. As I have an 80" media console, I dont think a floorstander center is an option, as it would be much closer to one of the LR front speakers than the other, and look ridiculous as well.
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post #17 of 19 Old 08-04-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by geoffrey2k View Post
Quite honestly, I dont like the look of the front panel on the Denon. Too many words all over espousing its greatness. Kind of hideous.
Huh? What Denon model are you look at? Maybe one's in the stores that have stickers on them?

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post #18 of 19 Old 08-04-2014, 03:12 PM
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I agree w / cei4145. My 3311ci looks fine. Look at the x4000. They were selling them at the AVS store for way below msrp.
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post #19 of 19 Old 08-04-2014, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post
I agree w / cei4145. My 3311ci looks fine. Look at the x4000. They were selling them at the AVS store for way below msrp.
I think the pic I saw must have had stickers. The one I just looked up is a pretty close match to the Marantz, with perhaps a wee bit more lettering on the bottom right. But nothing heinous.
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