Swapping Ortofon 2M Red stylus with a 2M blue stylus? - AVS Forum
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Swapping Ortofon 2M Red stylus with a 2M blue stylus?

I was considering an entry level TT to get back into vinyl. The one I have been looking at has a pre installed Ortofon 2M Red cartridge. I wanted to check if anyone has had any experience swapping the red stylus for a 2m blue stylus -- I have read that they are interchangeable, but the blue was a better performer. So, based on this, theoretically I can pop in a new stylus and reap some additional benefit without a full cartridge swap, I suppose.

Anybody ever do this?

Thank you very much for any input.
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgterm View Post
I was considering an entry level TT to get back into vinyl. The one I have been looking at has a pre installed Ortofon 2M Red cartridge. I wanted to check if anyone has had any experience swapping the red stylus for a 2m blue stylus -- I have read that they are interchangeable, but the blue was a better performer. So, based on this, theoretically I can pop in a new stylus and reap some additional benefit without a full cartridge swap, I suppose.

Anybody ever do this?

Thank you very much for any input.
The styli may be physically interchangeable, but they are not compatible for technical reasons.

If you want to upgrade, you need to buy the better cartridge.
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
The styli may be physically interchangeable, but they are not compatible for technical reasons.

If you want to upgrade, you need to buy the better cartridge.
Thank you for the reply. I asked because I thought I had read that the actual body of the cartridges were exactly the same, and that the only difference could be found in the styli. Hence, my question about upgrading just the stylus on the red. I must have misinterpreted what was written...

Much obliged!
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:25 AM
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I think you're over-thinking the performance differences involved. Vinyl itself is the challenge, not particularly the cartridge and the red is a competent cartridge....especially if it comes installed on the tt, just use it!

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 08-05-2014, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
I think you're over-thinking the performance differences involved. Vinyl itself is the challenge, not particularly the cartridge and the red is a competent cartridge....especially if it comes installed on the tt, just use it!
Probably... But overthinking this stuff is half the fun! What you're suggesting is likely what I will do...

Thanks!
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tgterm View Post
Thank you for the reply. I asked because I thought I had read that the actual body of the cartridges were exactly the same, and that the only difference could be found in the styli. Hence, my question about upgrading just the stylus on the red. I must have misinterpreted what was written...

Much obliged!
The Ortofon site ( http://ortofon.com/hifi/products/car...series/2m-blue ), under the heading Technical Data, indicates that they are interchangeable and I would suspect that they've only say that if it was recommended as an option.

I concur with your sentiments regarding 'overthinking' things. Vinyl fans know that cartridges vary in performance and part of the fun is experimenting. I've got the 2M Red too, which retails for about 100. By all counts its a good entry level cartridge, but this is a technology in which more money really can get you more SQ. I'd love to try moving coil designs as they have superior high end reproduction, but cost much more. It never ends!
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
The Ortofon site ( http://ortofon.com/hifi/products/car...series/2m-blue ), under the heading Technical Data, indicates that they are interchangeable and I would suspect that they've only say that if it was recommended as an option.



I concur with your sentiments regarding 'overthinking' things. Vinyl fans know that cartridges vary in performance and part of the fun is experimenting. I've got the 2M Red too, which retails for about 100. By all counts its a good entry level cartridge, but this is a technology in which more money really can get you more SQ. I'd love to try moving coil designs as they have superior high end reproduction, but cost much more. It never ends!

It certainly never ends. That is a true statement! ;-)

Thanks for the link...
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
The Ortofon site ( http://ortofon.com/hifi/products/car...series/2m-blue ), under the heading Technical Data, indicates that they are interchangeable and I would suspect that they've only say that if it was recommended as an option.

I concur with your sentiments regarding 'overthinking' things. Vinyl fans know that cartridges vary in performance and part of the fun is experimenting. I've got the 2M Red too, which retails for about 100. By all counts its a good entry level cartridge, but this is a technology in which more money really can get you more SQ. I'd love to try moving coil designs as they have superior high end reproduction, but cost much more. It never ends!
I read that as perhaps saying they use the same stylus...

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 08-06-2014, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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^actually, they are different styli... Apparently interchangeable.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:56 AM
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^actually, they are different styli... Apparently interchangeable.
How do they differ? I didn't see anything particularly saying that....

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 08-06-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
How do they differ? I didn't see anything particularly saying that....
Nude elliptical vs. Elliptical... Some other sources I have found get into more details... Different diamonds?
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Old 08-06-2014, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tgterm View Post
Nude elliptical vs. Elliptical... Some other sources I have found get into more details... Different diamonds?
I don't see how nude elliptical is necessarily different than elliptical unless the inference is there is a tipped diamond used on the "elliptical"? I see this on Ortofon's site https://ortofon.com/images/stories/s...lus%20type.pdf

Could just be marketing speak....

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 08-06-2014, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Dunno...I lifted this from a comparison...

Sharing the same cartridge body, the Ortofon 2M stylus of the Ortofon 2M Blue differs from the 2M Red being nude elliptical rather than just elliptical. The nude stylus has the diamond punched through the cantilever, which produces less distortion than the Red (which uses a smaller diamond adhered to a tube - called shank - which is then adhered to the cantilever). This is a more expensive process but it means better tracking and a higher frequency range at 25,000 Hz compared to 22,000 Hz.

See link:
http://www.theapplechap.webspace.vir...d_or_Blue.html
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Old 08-07-2014, 01:33 AM
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Just seems odd from that Ortofon link I posted that they were saying diamond tipped stylus wasn't so hot (but didn't indicate which was which in their lineup)

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 08-07-2014, 07:01 AM
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https://system.netsuite.com/core/med...ry=US&gc=clear

Personally... I'd enjoy the 2M Red and use the ~$200 for a replacement Blue stylus to buy some LP's.
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:52 AM
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This is pretty similar to the Ortofon OM line. The bodies of the OM-5, OM-10, etc are the same. The differences in the models were the stylii. They were interchangeable on that line as well, providing an upgrade path.
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Old 08-10-2014, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
I don't see how nude elliptical is necessarily different than elliptical unless the inference is there is a tipped diamond used on the "elliptical"? I see this on Ortofon's site https://ortofon.com/images/stories/s...lus%20type.pdf

Could just be marketing speak....
I don't know, instead of repeatedly posting skepticism, why don't you contact Ortofon, or an Ortofon dealer and express your skepticism to them. Then report back with their response.
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Old 08-13-2014, 01:25 PM
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Just trying to see what actual knowledge there is about the various differences.... No interest in a new cartridge or clarification from Ortofon in any case, my Grado at its current use level will last me the rest of my life....

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 08-14-2014, 04:29 PM
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The price of a 2M Blue stylus is about $170. A 2M Blue Cart is $225. Hardly worth the savings. If you want a 2m Blue but the cart. By the way how skilled are you at switching out a stylus?? It can be tricky to a novice.
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Old 08-14-2014, 04:38 PM
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By the way how skilled are you at switching out a stylus?? It can be tricky to a novice.
How so?
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Old 08-14-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
https://system.netsuite.com/core/med...ry=US&gc=clear

Personally... I'd enjoy the 2M Red and use the ~$200 for a replacement Blue stylus to buy some LP's.
Maybe my TT and/or entire system and/or my ears are not sensitive enough. I borrowed my friend's Blue (at the same time I bought my Red), and although I can hear differences, I can't make up my mind which I like better...so I use the Red and use the money to buy...blu-ray movies (I know the logic is flawed, but at the time I just bought the Beatles vinyl box set, I can't bring myself to buy more LP)

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Old 08-16-2014, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
The Ortofon site ( http://ortofon.com/hifi/products/car...series/2m-blue ), under the heading Technical Data, indicates that they are interchangeable and I would suspect that they've only say that if it was recommended as an option.

I concur with your sentiments regarding 'overthinking' things. Vinyl fans know that cartridges vary in performance and part of the fun is experimenting. I've got the 2M Red too, which retails for about 100. By all counts its a good entry level cartridge, but this is a technology in which more money really can get you more SQ. I'd love to try moving coil designs as they have superior high end reproduction, but cost much more. It never ends!
I used Ortofon Moving Coils for decades with my Revox B795 TT which I have since given to my daughter.

That being said, I am very pleased with the fidelity of the Ortofon Red supplied with my Pro-Ject Carbon Turntable.

When (or if) the Red Stylus ever wears out I will replace it with the Blue just for fun.

But not sure if it will wear out as that would be at about 500 hours and I don't have that many hours of vinyl left to digitize which is what I've been using my turntables to digitize.

So, from me, who's owned turntables since 1974 and have had experience with top of the line Stantons, Shure's as well as Ortofon Moving Coils, the Ortofon gets a score of 9 out of ten.

Love the Pro-Ject Carbon but it's actually my very first fully manual Turntable.

I loved my Sony PSX75 Turntable which I traded with my Dad for his Revox B795 because the Sony tracked warped records better.

I wish I had grabbed that Sony PSX75 back after he died, to be honest.

Nevertheless the manual Pro-Ject with the Ortofon Red is a fine combination and certainly nothing you should be ashamed of or feel needs an immediate upgrade.
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