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Audyssey...ugh

8K views 175 replies 36 participants last post by  milehighou 
#1 ·
For quite a while, I was listening to 2-channel with Audyssey on, but in "bypass L/R" mode so only my sub was EQ'd. I switched it off tonight, and I think it's an improvement. The bass seems more balanced. For whatever reason, the bass was really overpowering on certain songs with Audyssey on. I never liked it running on my mains for music because I think it screwed with the sound (in a bad way). Guess I don't like it messing with my sub, either.

Anyone else not like Audyssey when it comes to 2-channel tunes?
 
#2 ·
Same here, Audyssey for movies only. Sound supports the visuals and the transient nature of dialogue and sound effects doesn't require highest fidelity. To me Audyssey "juices" up the sound for movies, something I find unacceptable for music listening. Actually it's disruption of the soundstage that bugs me.
 
#3 ·
Yeah, I agree. There is a definitely a "juiced up" sound. A lot of music nowadays sounds juiced up enough, so I'd prefer not to EQ it anymore. I did notice a difference in soundstage, too. Guess I will keep it simple for my music. Two channels plus the sub, no Audyssey, no DEQ or other sorcery =)
 
#4 ·
I stopped using room calibration as well. Audio worked quite well without it for decades. No reason to think it can't be the same way today. Don't tell anyone but I don't use bass management either. SSShhh. That is considered bad practice these days.
 
#5 ·
I used REW to equalize/tame my two 12" sealed DIY subwoofers. My preamp processor is a Sherbourn PT-7030 which sounds great but does not come with any room correction/optimizer built in. Once the subs were dialed in I got rid of the house curve - that area in the 50-80hz that was about 9db hot right about 70hz. My focus is on two channel. I've had my share of Audyssey machines from 2EQ to Mult EQ XT32 and IMO none did a passable job in 2 channel with my subs.
 
#9 ·
For music, I mainly listen to multi-channel SA-CD, but the the concept is the same whether 2-channel or multi-channel music. Room correction solutions are for home cinema, not music.

I evaluated Audyssey for music and home cinema for awhile after I initially purchased my AVR-3313 in late 2012. It was unacceptable for both, so I turned it off permanently.

I do use bass management and my subwoofer has an on-board parametric equaliser. That's the only room correction solution in use.

I've heard good things of Dirac Live, though.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for the input, guys!

So if I run pure mode, I can still get bass out of my sub? My AVR does have a setting for LFE. It's either "LFE", which I believe uses bass management, or "LFE+mains". So the LFE+mains settings should give me the ability to run 'direct' or 'pure direct' and still get some action from the sub?
 
#11 ·
I don't recommend LFE+mains, or "double bass" as some know it by, because it can become overly bass-heavy with some source material.

I run LFE with a crossover point of 110 Hz for my KEF iQ30/iQ10 (rear) and Rythmik F12SE sub-woofer. One of the major benefits of this configuration, is elimination of intermodulation distortion in this frequency area.
 
#17 ·
Well, I re-positioned my sub a bit to get more even bass in my seating area. I think maybe I do like the 'bypass L/R' option. If I'm understanding it correctly, it is still EQ'ing my sub, but leaving my mains alone. I'm also back to DEQ (with an offset of 15). It just adds a fullness to the music that seems to be lacking otherwise.
 
#28 ·
Good, you are aware of the reference offset for DEQ. You can extend its adjustment range by using the input attenuator too in similar way. Here:

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/73283-dynamic-eq-and-reference-level

You can nearly always use DEQ as your bass and treble compensation since most times it is actually the reference level of the mix rather than the tonal balance of the mix that is off IMO.
 
#19 ·
I don't like the way they sound with MultEQ on (for music). Not sure what it is exactly, but it seems to change the way vocals sound. I think music sounds more natural on my speakers without the EQ. Deep bass is another story. It seems to EQ the sub fairly well and bring out bass lines, clean up the sound, etc.

Maybe if I had a better version of Audyssey, I'd like the mains EQ'd, too.
 
#20 ·
I can't live without bass management, largely due to my speaker choices, so I differ from FMW in that respect... My 4 DIY subs work beautifully in conjunction with my main speakers. I haven't been this happy with my bass response... well .. ever.

I rely on bass PEQ using my Lab Gruppen amplifier's built in PEQ which is quite good. Audyssey is barely doing anything to my bass response since it is already sufficiently EQ'd. Perhaps it smooths the peaks out ever so slightly more.

I use Audyssey Bypass L/R also. It is just not clear to me that introducing all this processing into the main channels is really needed for most music situations. I like a slightly brighter or "accurate" high end compared to some people. I can hear some tones up to 22khz at sufficient volume so perhaps I am a mutant. Audyssey curve just clouds that whole upper end for me.
 
#23 ·
I vastly prefer the sound of my system using Audyssey for stereo listening to direct/pure direct. My speakers can reach fairly low, but bass response is much smoother coming from the sub only. OTOH, this is certainly one of those personal preference/how it sounds in your system sort of things.
 
#24 ·
Yeah Audyssey has always improved my music, not only with instruments and vocals but with subwoofer integration as well. I guess I wasn't aware there were people who had it, but left it off.

I normally use the Flat profile. I get that Audyssey is rolling off the top end to help with reflective rooms but depending on the speaker it can be too much.
 
#26 ·
I guess I just like the way my speakers sound as is, so I don't want to change that. Keep in mind, that's just for 2-channel stereo. When I watch movies and TV, I leave Audyssey on everything (but don't use dyn. volume). It seems to keep dialogue clear and I don't really have any complaints.
 
#27 ·
I hear a substantial change in surround imaging with Audyssey on versus off. With it on, the sound in the sweet spot is like a bubble of clarity. With it off, moving my head forward and backward in the 'sweet spot' causes a phasy sound similar to that of horizontal WTW center speaker while moving off-axis.

My conclusion: It seems that Audyssey does fine timing correction on top of the coarse timing adjustment in the manual delay menu. This might explain why some people find some benefit with Audyssey for surround sound that does not materialize with Audyssey for 2 channel music.

Presumably, stereo speakers are typically placed identically distant from the sweet spot, whereas with surround speakers, placement might be more challenged by room constraints and require finer delay calibration than what is available with Audyssey off.
 
#30 ·
Thanks for the detailed comments! I am OK with what Audyssey does for movies, but MultEQ on for music just doesn't suit my taste. I've done multiple calibrations with very similar end results. I think bass causes the most challenging EQ problems, and MultEQ seems to handle my sub well. I am pretty happy with "bypass L/R" mode on and DEQ at 15 offset. I bump up the sub level a bit and stereo music sounds full and powerful.

If I leave MultEQ fully engaged, vocals seem a bit subdued and the mids seems to come out more. To me, it just doesn't sound right. I find it a little strange that people buy good speakers because they like the way they sound (most likely when playing music), but then they go and EQ them and totally change the sound.

To each their own, though. I'm glad my AVR gives me the option to EQ just my sub and leave the mains alone.
 
#35 ·
Glad that works out for you. In here I have no bypass l/r mode and not sure it would help. I am using Sapphire speakers and although they sound better than anything else I have tried they have limitations presumably worse than many speakers in use by audiophiles. My hearing cuts off at 12KHz too so I probably am missing the change in treble for the most part and unable to discern whether it is improved or not.

In other words I might not even be able to hear what you are reporting even if I was there in your room and it is even less likely I could hear it in my room with my equipment.

If I discover anything else of importance I will check in again and let you know. Best wishes.
 
#34 ·
I've found that I prefer the sound of my system for both music and films with Audyssey XT32 off. I do have two DIY 15" sealed subs which use a separate amp that has it's own DSP which I used along with REW to help decide on the initial positioning of the subs and then setting them up.

Having manually eq'd the subs and played with different crossovers I'm happy with the result. If I switch on XT32 then I find it makes my main speakers (MK MP150/S150T) sound too bright, so I end up engaging 're-eq' which seems like two wrongs trying to make a right. Checking with REW after XT32 set up it doesn't really add any further benefit to the bass/subwoofers so the manual eq and set up is as good as my room allows anyway.

I've heard positive things about the ARC eq in Anthem AVRs and that they are generally better with music, but I've yet to hear one. I do like the idea that it can limit the frequency range that is corrected as I have a slight 'boominess' to my centre speaker that XT32 helps with, but given the brightness issue I prefer to live with that boominess.
 
#41 ·
In my room and with Sapphire/TSC towers/bookshelves/satellites(for the center speaker 'line array' because the WTW is horrible) and SVS PB10s I find that the 'movie' curve sounds substantially identical to no curve but with smoothing for room modes, and that the 'music' curve sounds brighter.

I suppose the original Sapphire speaker design targetted a very similar sound to the THX movie theater sound Audyssey Movie allegedly targets. Not being able to hear above 12K limits my ability to compare. I need to get REW working so I can objectively evaluate things.

What I have read online is that Sapphire speakers may have 'tweeter breakup' at higher levels, but with aluminum woofers it is just as likely what was reported is modal resonance within the woofer cones at or above crossover IMO. The tweeters are polycell dome and despite at least one online claim that The Speaker Company toned down the tweeter design, my own experience is that comparing identical speakers pre and post sale, the tweeters sound identical even when moved from speaker to speaker (only the color changes) but the TC2 center speaker that replaced the original SC center speaker is not only 2" shallower, but the tweeter is also padded down a little.

In both make/model of center speakers the sound is mud. The tweeter has a huge wave guide on it that forces the woofers apart and the phasing sound of horizontal WTW is prominent. The unbraced cabinet has some resonances that really color the low-mid to upper-bass of voices and further muddy up the sound. Then there may also be 'baffle step compensation' plus a rear port making the speaker particularly ill-suited to placement in shelving even when stuffed with fiber and a pair of socks in the port. If I want to get decent sound from it I pretty much have to set it vertical on a small stand out in the open, and brace the cabinet plus maybe add a bunch of stuffing to it.

Sealed satellites are a major improvement to the sound of the system, even with smaller woofers and lower efficiency.

Until I resolved the speaker issues I would have no luck getting satisfactory performance and now I am going through the furniture repositioning since with 11 speakers in such a small space there is no speaker placement flexibility whatsoever.

I just wonder how many other people are struggling wth things that muddy up the picture of which part of the technology is really falling down on the job. I have BSEE and some of these issues are taking me by surprise, both in the variety and the subtlety of them. I had no idea when I started collecting used equipment over two years ago that reproducing audio faithfully would prove to be so challenging. I though the tech had solved most of the problems for us already.

Doh!!:eek:
 
#36 ·
Geez, I can't make up my mind. I'm back to DynEQ off for music. I guess I can turn it on if I really want to shake the walls (certain songs remind me of the thumping you hear when someone drives by with a loud car stereo), but music seems more accurate with it off and bass is less over-the-top. I think bumping up my sub trim to get the bass I want, along with running in bypass L/R mode to still get the sub EQ, works pretty well.

With DynEQ off, switching between MultEQ on and off doesn't really make a huge difference in sound. If anything, the overall volume seems just a touch lower, so maybe that's the difference I'm hearing. The vocals and mids seem to change a little. On some rock songs, it seems to bring out the guitars more, but the vocals are a bit quieter.
 
#42 ·
I've never liked any of the automatic tuning/EQing options I've tried. They're the Ikea version of building your own furniture.
 
#45 ·
Audyssey's site seems to show it that way, at least for the first 8 mic positions. If you are sitting in the middle seat of a couch as the MLP, the second position is in the seat to the right, third seat to the left, then 3 positions immediately in front of the couch, and two on either side of the "head" of the person in the MLP and immediately behind that seat.
 
#68 ·
True, Bob...:)
 
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