Does Yamaha R N-602 falls in Audiophile category? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 33Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #1 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 12:49 AM - Thread Starter
ISO
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Does Yamaha R N-602 falls in Audiophile category?

Please give your valuable opinions.


Yamaha R N-602
Wi-Fi, Wireless Direct, Bluetooth and AirPlay

Access to your music library, Pandora®, Spotify, SiriusXM Internet
Radio and more

DSD 2.8 MHz / 5.6 MHz, FLAC / WAV / AIFF 192 kHz / 24-bit, Apple® Lossless 96 kHz / 24-bit playback

Front panel USB connection for digital docking with iPod® / iPhone® and USB flash drives

Pure Direct for greater sound purity

ToP-ART sound quality design with high quality parts

Digital audio inputs for TV or Blu-ray Disc™ players

Phono input (MM) to connect to your favorite turntable

Add audio in up to 9 additional rooms with MusicCast
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	51D3DB7679994485B089D1EF1116DB25_12001.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	8.0 KB
ID:	1953937  

Last edited by ISO; 02-09-2017 at 01:21 AM.
ISO is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 03:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
glangford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 198 Post(s)
Liked: 170
No, but it doesn't have to for it to sound good. Your speakers are more important to the sound than a 600 buck receiver. The definition of 'audiophile territory' is in the eye of the beholder. I have speakers that most would quantify as audiophile territory. (Salk Supercharged Song Towers) My receiver, most would not; I use a simple AVR, Denon 3311ci. I don't think I'm missing anything sound wise. It sounds sublime.

Don't get hung up on the definition of 'audiophile territory', particularly with you amp, integrated, receiver,etc.
vzphoneman likes this.
glangford is offline  
post #3 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 05:49 AM
Senior Member
 
Paraneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Well to be blunt and answer your first question - this receiver is not an audiophile product. It is mainstream entry level product that will most likely lose its resale value quickly. You would have a tough time trading it in at an audio shop. And you would not see it being resold as used on the high end audio sites like Audiogon. This doesn't make it a bad product though.

Now to your second question which is our opinions. If this product meets your needs, matches well with your speakers and is within your budget, then it doesn't matter if its considered audiophile or not. The goal is not what label or rep a component has but how well it does its job with the rest of your gear. Remember, a great sounding system can only be as good as its weakest link. Since we don't know what you have or why you ask it, this receiver may be all you need.
vzphoneman likes this.

Marantz PM15S2 LE, Oppo BDP-103, Simaudio Moon 100D DAC
VPI Traveler V2 with an Ortofon Rondo Blue and Simaudio Moon 110LP, Technics SL-1400 with an Audio Technica AT-14sa and Pro-ject Phono Box S
Dynaudio Focus 260's, Rel T-1 and a Panasonic TC-P54S1.
Paraneer is offline  
 
post #4 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 08:34 AM
Member
 
auronihilist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Hello ISO,

That Yamaha stereo receiver you mentioned looks like a really nice machine. However, you'll get way more value per dollar purchasing an AV receiver. They're designing AV receivers pretty good these days. Due to the fact they offer many more features over a 2-channel stereo receiver, you'll thank yourself down the road.

Cognitive bias when auditioning audio components sighted usually lie to us.
auronihilist is offline  
post #5 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
ISO
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Thank you friends for your replies.

I was told that AVR, however costly may be, will never match audio quality of the stereo receiver.

Is this really a fact or fiction?
ISO is online now  
post #6 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 10:59 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 17,546
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1289 Post(s)
Liked: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISO View Post
Thank you friends for your replies.

I was told that AVR, however costly may be, will never match audio quality of the stereo receiver.

Is this really a fact or fiction?
Typically, an "AVR" will cost the same or less than a "stereo only" receiver. And you will probably get more features and/or more amplified channels should you decide to expand your audio horizons in the future.

Is it fact or fiction?
Well... IMHO, it's a stretch. AVR's can sound great in stereo mode.
Ratman is online now  
post #7 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 11:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,614
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1296 Post(s)
Liked: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISO View Post
Please give your valuable opinions.
Adding 'audiophile' to the label means you're paying far too much for average performance.
balky and auronihilist like this.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #8 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 11:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eljaycanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 8,551
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1229 Post(s)
Liked: 1804
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISO
Does Yamaha R N-602 falls in Audiophile category?

Please give your valuable opinions. ...
In my humble opinion, whether or not a piece of equipment falls into the "audiophile" category is irrelevant.

What should matter is whether a piece of equipment:
- is well-designed, -built and -backed;
- has the connectivity and features you want;
- delivers the performance you desire; and
- fits your budget.

Yamaha makes good gear.
eljaycanuck is offline  
post #9 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 11:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISO View Post
Thank you friends for your replies.

I was told that AVR, however costly may be, will never match audio quality of the stereo receiver.

Is this really a fact or fiction?
The fact is the answer depends on more variables then what can be disclosed, and vetted within these forums.

The fact is, only a large debate will ensue in which at some point one or more members will start to pontificate, and strive to irrefutably prove that their assertions are correct. Which they may or may not be, but will not be provable within this forum.

This having been said, IME/IMO some AVR's can out perform some Receivers. Some AVR's have excellent amplifier sections and power supplies. Some receivers do not. Price will have a lot to do with it.

If you are after faithful 2-channel reproductions, I recommend firstly, spending 80% of your budget on speakers, 10% your media player, one with an integrated preamp section, and 10% on your amplifier.

Breaking it down with a 10K budget, 8000 on speakers, 1000 on media player 1000 on amp.

Oppo has a nice media player that fits this budget and Emotiva has amps that fit this budget as well, speaker wise - a huge ocean of options with a budget in this range, personal preference will by the deciding factor.

If your budget is 5K I'd say 60% on speakers 20% respectively for amp and media player.

If it's less than 5K; I'd save up some more money, or consider buying used equipment.

If you don't care about accurate 2 channel stereo reproductions, you can enter the market with a much smaller budget.
auronihilist likes this.

The so-called Laws of Physic's are Theory's and nothing more, many of which remain unproven to any degree of certainty!

Last edited by Jady Jenkins; 02-09-2017 at 11:22 AM.
Jady Jenkins is offline  
post #10 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 01:51 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 17,546
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1289 Post(s)
Liked: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
The fact is the answer depends on more variables then what can be disclosed, and vetted within these forums.

The fact is, only a large debate will ensue in which at some point one or more members will start to pontificate, and strive to irrefutably prove that their assertions are correct. Which they may or may not be, but will not be provable within this forum.
Yes. Bold text drives your point home.

To the OP, there's no magic solution. It's up to you to vet what sounds best in your room and fits your budget. AVR's, receivers, integrated amps and separates all have their benefits/deficits.
balky and Jady Jenkins like this.
Ratman is online now  
post #11 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 02:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DanPackMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked: 381
A note on "losing resale value". The most you can lose on the OP product is $600 (or less if you pay less). You can stand to lose just as much or even a lot more on a very expensive 'audiophile' product, dollar wise.
DanPackMan is offline  
post #12 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 02:52 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 17,546
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1289 Post(s)
Liked: 1028
Resale value is a dream.

I have vintage Scott, HK, Pioneer, Dynaco and Kenwood gear looking for homes. Resale shops couldn't be bothered taking it off my hands.
No one wants to buy "old stuff", no matter the price. Even if it's free.
Ratman is online now  
post #13 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 03:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dmb12679's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Plainfield IL
Posts: 1,167
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 514 Post(s)
Liked: 225
I would buy a nice AVR, that has the features you want.


If you buy one with pre-outs you can use the avr for processing and hook up an additional amplifier to it for your music listening if you desire more power or have difficult to drive speakers. I would suggest that for the average consumer staying within the major players Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, etc you should get a decent 2 channel set up from an AVR.


I use my SR6010 for theater duty 7.2 and also for 2.0


Ratman what HK are looking do drop? I just bought some old high end (2003) equipment to mess with in 2 channel. Never know when I'll be looking for more or something different

Marantz SR6010 -- Marantz MM7025 -- Marantz UD5007
Klipsch RF-7ii's - RC-64ii - RB-51ii's - RS-42ii's - R-112sw(x2)

B&K AVR507
Denon DVD2900
Klipsch RF-7ii's
dmb12679 is online now  
post #14 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 03:29 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 17,546
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1289 Post(s)
Liked: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmb12679 View Post
Ratman what HK are looking do drop? I just bought some old high end (2003) equipment to mess with in 2 channel. Never know when I'll be looking for more or something different
SR600 ... much before 2003!
Ratman is online now  
post #15 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 03:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dmb12679's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Plainfield IL
Posts: 1,167
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 514 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
SR600 ... much before 2003!

The older stereo market has gone a little crazy for some models, and flat for other models where it isn't even worth the shipping almost. Craigslist is about the only option to avoid fees, packaging costs, not to mention the risk of shipping the 30-50lb hog at the tune of $65 to have a delivery guy toss it at your front door

Marantz SR6010 -- Marantz MM7025 -- Marantz UD5007
Klipsch RF-7ii's - RC-64ii - RB-51ii's - RS-42ii's - R-112sw(x2)

B&K AVR507
Denon DVD2900
Klipsch RF-7ii's
dmb12679 is online now  
post #16 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 04:04 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 17,546
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1289 Post(s)
Liked: 1028
It isn't anywhere near 30 lbs. Much less.

Either way, you aren't interested I assume.
dmb12679 likes this.
Ratman is online now  
post #17 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 05:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Paraneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Resale value is a dream.

I have vintage Scott, HK, Pioneer, Dynaco and Kenwood gear looking for homes. Resale shops couldn't be bothered taking it off my hands.
No one wants to buy "old stuff", no matter the price. Even if it's free.
That's pretty old vintage gear. I am talking much more used, modern high fidelity gear. And of course resale shops can't be bothered - they take in stuff for free. Did you try and sell in the classifieds on vintage audio sites? On Ebay? To a lot of vintage enthusiasts, some of these pieces may be coveted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
A note on "losing resale value". The most you can lose on the OP product is $600 (or less if you pay less). You can stand to lose just as much or even a lot more on a very expensive 'audiophile' product, dollar wise.
Yeah, your right. It can lose all its value. Similar to a typical AVR that becomes obsolete when the newest audio codec is introduced. A quality integrated Hi Fi amp like a McIntosh will easily retain it's value, maybe by as much as 50% or more. Try and find a used MA6500 that retailed at $4500 ten years ago. If you do, you'll pay around 3 grand. An MA6300 that was $4000 five years ago are routinely selling at $2700-$3000. And they are not sold on Craigslist either.

Again not bashing the OP's Yamaha or any AVR - they serve a need but being mass produced and mainstream, will quickly lose their value. Unlike true audiophile pieces where there is a vibrant used market. So no need to argue, each serves its purpose. But don't deny facts and pretend that audiophile pieces will not retain their value. Go out and see for yourself.
clpetersen and Jady Jenkins like this.

Marantz PM15S2 LE, Oppo BDP-103, Simaudio Moon 100D DAC
VPI Traveler V2 with an Ortofon Rondo Blue and Simaudio Moon 110LP, Technics SL-1400 with an Audio Technica AT-14sa and Pro-ject Phono Box S
Dynaudio Focus 260's, Rel T-1 and a Panasonic TC-P54S1.
Paraneer is offline  
post #18 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 07:38 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post
That's pretty old vintage gear. I am talking much more used, modern high fidelity gear. And of course resale shops can't be bothered - they take in stuff for free. Did you try and sell in the classifieds on vintage audio sites? On Ebay? To a lot of vintage enthusiasts, some of these pieces may be coveted.


Yeah, your right. It can lose all its value. Similar to a typical AVR that becomes obsolete when the newest audio codec is introduced. A quality integrated Hi Fi amp like a McIntosh will easily retain it's value, maybe by as much as 50% or more. Try and find a used MA6500 that retailed at $4500 ten years ago. If you do, you'll pay around 3 grand. An MA6300 that was $4000 five years ago are routinely selling at $2700-$3000. And they are not sold on Craigslist either.

Again not bashing the OP's Yamaha or any AVR - they serve a need but being mass produced and mainstream, will quickly lose their value. Unlike true audiophile pieces where there is a vibrant used market. So no need to argue, each serves its purpose. But don't deny facts and pretend that audiophile pieces will not retain their value. Go out and see for yourself.

I have pieces that sold for $1400.00 40-years ago. I see the combo, selling used for $1100.00 on canuckaudiomart.com - high-end Sansui integrated and matching tuner...

Edit: Cost of ownership = $7.50, per year, if i choose to sell these items this week. WOW!
nsiret likes this.

The so-called Laws of Physic's are Theory's and nothing more, many of which remain unproven to any degree of certainty!

Last edited by Jady Jenkins; 02-09-2017 at 07:54 PM.
Jady Jenkins is offline  
post #19 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 07:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DanPackMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Yeah, your right. It can lose all its value. Similar to a typical AVR that becomes obsolete when the newest audio codec is introduced. A quality integrated Hi Fi amp like a McIntosh will easily retain it's value, maybe by as much as 50% or more. Try and find a used MA6500 that retailed at $4500 ten years ago. If you do, you'll pay around 3 grand. An MA6300 that was $4000 five years ago are routinely selling at $2700-$3000. .
Right, instead of losing $500 with the OP item, you lose well over $1000 going with the high end stuff you speak of. Its simply not a good argument for buying high end stuff.
DanPackMan is offline  
post #20 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 07:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
Right, instead of losing $500 with the OP item, you lose well over $1000 going with the high end stuff you speak of. Its simply not a good argument for buying high end stuff.
Could it be that you have failed to convert the losses to percentages?

High end stuff as you call it retains far more residual value.

The so-called Laws of Physic's are Theory's and nothing more, many of which remain unproven to any degree of certainty!
Jady Jenkins is offline  
post #21 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 08:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dmb12679's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Plainfield IL
Posts: 1,167
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 514 Post(s)
Liked: 225
AVR's value fall hard and fast. I just bought a used $3500(2003) avr for $150 mint dlvd. No HDMI. can't read latest audio format. I'd like an example of one over the last 20 that has held it's value compared to original cost. I'm talking multi channel AVR's


Mcintosh is mcintosh, I will not invite them to this party


2 Channel stereo receivers, and 2-7 channel power amplifiers hold their value quite well although rarely sell for what they cost new. The 150-200wpc vintage 2 channel is selling like crazy, but those models are few and far between(I'd love to have one). The standard 40-70 wpc are beautiful imo and can be had for a very fair price.


I still think with what op is looking for he's better of buying a midline AVR from a major brand with pre-outs.
Jady Jenkins likes this.

Marantz SR6010 -- Marantz MM7025 -- Marantz UD5007
Klipsch RF-7ii's - RC-64ii - RB-51ii's - RS-42ii's - R-112sw(x2)

B&K AVR507
Denon DVD2900
Klipsch RF-7ii's
dmb12679 is online now  
post #22 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 08:47 PM
Newbie
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISO View Post
Please give your valuable opinions.Is it audiophile quality.
I'm new here, first post. I'm a bit of a 2 channel snob but being an audiophile is a state of mind not what gear you own. If you are working to get better sound, you are an audiophile. It looks like you are on your way.
redgum11 likes this.
Russ69 is online now  
post #23 of 62 Unread 02-09-2017, 09:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Paraneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
Right, instead of losing $500 with the OP item, you lose well over $1000 going with the high end stuff you speak of. Its simply not a good argument for buying high end stuff.
I'm not arguing friend, but it seems that you are.

I never advocated buying high end gear. I did not bash anyone buying mainstream, entry level gear. I simply addressed the OP's question which was - Does the Yamaha RN-602 fall into the audiophile category? I gave him a blunt and honest answer - it does not. I gave him a big reason why also - it will not retain its value as an audiophile caliber piece will.

But most importantly, I also told him none of this makes it a bad product. I also said, it may be the right piece of gear for him. Reread my initial post.

You may not like the fact that a high end amp will retain 50% or more of its value while entry level mainstream stuff will lose 90% or more. But its still a fact. They are two different markets.
balky and Jady Jenkins like this.

Marantz PM15S2 LE, Oppo BDP-103, Simaudio Moon 100D DAC
VPI Traveler V2 with an Ortofon Rondo Blue and Simaudio Moon 110LP, Technics SL-1400 with an Audio Technica AT-14sa and Pro-ject Phono Box S
Dynaudio Focus 260's, Rel T-1 and a Panasonic TC-P54S1.
Paraneer is offline  
post #24 of 62 Unread 02-10-2017, 05:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DanPackMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
Could it be that you have failed to convert the losses to percentages?

High end stuff as you call it retains far more residual value.
No. Because $ matter. Are you implying its better to lose more money because it is a larger percentage of a much larger total? I am explicitly saying it isn't.

Not arguing with anyone, just pointing out the fallacy of the residual value argument as a reason to consider buying expensive gear va lower cost gear. Now, if you are already intent on buying expensive high end gear it certainly is good to get as much back as you can in the end and consider those products with higher resale value history.

Last edited by DanPackMan; 02-10-2017 at 05:26 AM.
DanPackMan is offline  
post #25 of 62 Unread 02-10-2017, 07:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eljaycanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 8,551
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1229 Post(s)
Liked: 1804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69
... being an audiophile is a state of mind not what gear you own. ...
Unfortunately, the "audiophile" state of mind seems inevitably to involve higher-end / expensive / exotic gear. People who enjoy great audio from good-quality, reasonably-priced gear (almost) never refer to themselves as "audiophiles", even though their love-of-sound cred is just as valid.
Ratman, balky, dmb12679 and 1 others like this.
eljaycanuck is offline  
post #26 of 62 Unread 02-10-2017, 07:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
balky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,110
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Unfortunately, the "audiophile" state of mind seems inevitably to involve higher-end / expensive / exotic gear. People who enjoy great audio from good-quality, reasonably-priced gear (almost) never refer to themselves as "audiophiles", even though their love-of-sound cred is just as valid.
I'm learning a lot from this thread... really a lot...
balky is online now  
post #27 of 62 Unread 02-10-2017, 10:12 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
I have pieces that sold for $1400.00 40-years ago. I see the combo, selling used for $1100.00 on canuckaudiomart.com - high-end Sansui integrated and matching tuner...

Edit: Cost of ownership = $7.50, per year, if i choose to sell these items this week. WOW!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
Right, instead of losing $500 with the OP item, you lose well over $1000 going with the high end stuff you speak of. Its simply not a good argument for buying high end stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
Could it be that you have failed to convert the losses to percentages?

High end stuff as you call it retains far more residual value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
No. Because $ matter. Are you implying its better to lose more money because it is a larger percentage of a much larger total? I am explicitly saying it isn't.

Not arguing with anyone, just pointing out the fallacy of the residual value argument as a reason to consider buying expensive gear va lower cost gear. Now, if you are already intent on buying expensive high end gear it certainly is good to get as much back as you can in the end and consider those products with higher resale value history.
You don't lose anything if you don't sell either - but like your point thats not the point either.

The point is higher end items don't typically lose 90% of their value they rarely lose even 50%. In most instances they retain between 60-75%, from new. Some keep increasing with age, some out past their original MSRP.

However, If you buy them used, you can save the deprecation, and often swing a profit if you decide to sell them, a year or 3 later.

In my case, I bought my gear used, for less than I can sell it today, in other words, if I decide to sell it today, I will in fact profit around 25%.

Now holding to your argument, lets see how things reason through.

One buys a top of the line commodity AVR or Receiver for lets say $2000.00, one year later it's worth maybe $1000, two years later maybe $500-650.00, three years under $500.00, four years even less, and out past 5-years maybe $250-300.00. Total loss if one sell it at 5-year mark over $1600.00.

Buy any amplifying high end device for $2000.00 and at the 5-year mark and you will be able to garner no less than 50%. Max loss if sold $1000.00, now if they hang on to it longer, the value may in fact increase, just as my Sansui items have and continue to do.

Percentage is linear friend, making the conversation about residual value and not whatever your attempting to put forth.

If we are to worry about lose, it makes the most sense to buy used, high end equipment; as the losses are less, and the performance typically superior, but never less!

The so-called Laws of Physic's are Theory's and nothing more, many of which remain unproven to any degree of certainty!

Last edited by Jady Jenkins; 02-10-2017 at 10:22 AM.
Jady Jenkins is offline  
post #28 of 62 Unread 02-10-2017, 11:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DanPackMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked: 381
^I agree used often is better value in the long run, but it hold for low end stuff as well. You can buy used low end stuff for next to nothing and essentially have next to nothing to lose.

I don't agree that, for new equipment, losing $1000 is better than losing $500 not matter what the percentages are. "percentage is linear" is both obvious and irrelevant to my point.
DanPackMan is offline  
post #29 of 62 Unread 02-10-2017, 11:57 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 17,546
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1289 Post(s)
Liked: 1028
Why worry about "resale value"? Buy what suits your needs, budget and be happy for a few years. Once it dies or you decide to upgrade, pass it along to a needy kid, friend, or neighbor.
I wouldn't worry about not being considered an audiophile because I purchased XYZ product.
Frank Derks, balky and glangford like this.
Ratman is online now  
post #30 of 62 Unread 02-10-2017, 12:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
^I agree used often is better value in the long run, but it hold for low end stuff as well. You can buy used low end stuff for next to nothing and essentially have next to nothing to lose.

I don't agree that, for new equipment, losing $1000 is better than losing $500 not matter what the percentages are. "percentage is linear" is both obvious and irrelevant to my point.
Oh boy,,,

If I bought a new or used, $2000.00 high-end something or other and used it for say three years and lost $1000.00 my cost of ownership would be $333.33, per year

Inversely, if i bought a new or used, $2000.00 commodity something or other and used it for say three years and lost $1500 - $1800.00 my cost of ownership would be $500 - $600.00, per year.

If you bought a $1000.00 new or used commodity something or other and used it for three years and lost $800-900.00 your cost of ownership would be $266.66 - $300.00, per year

If your cost of ownership is likely to be more, or at best essentially the same at the end of three years, to that of a high-end device, why wouldn't you go for the Mercedes, if you will and leave the Ford, at the dealership?

Buying high-end makes the most sense, on all levels, provided you have the cash to make the first buy in - which most do, either as a new or used appliance, if you will.

I always have and always will buy used high end over new commodity goods... After all, music first, right!

The so-called Laws of Physic's are Theory's and nothing more, many of which remain unproven to any degree of certainty!

Last edited by Jady Jenkins; 02-10-2017 at 12:49 PM.
Jady Jenkins is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 2-Channel Audio



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off