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post #1 of 25 Unread Yesterday, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Searching for "All amps sound same" claim

I've seen "All amps sound same" phrase passed around on this forum by some members but haven't seen anyone making that claim. If you have seen it, please post where, when and in what context it was said.
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post #2 of 25 Unread Yesterday, 09:53 PM
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"Official" All amps sound the same thread
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post #3 of 25 Unread Yesterday, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
I've seen "All amps sound same" phrase passed around on this forum by some members but haven't seen anyone making that claim. If you have seen it, please post where, when and in what context it was said.
Once upon a time there was this thread
Thread Subscriptions AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews > Audio > Receivers, Amps, and Processors > "Official" All amps sound the same thread
It's a very long thread, you may want to pick at it now and then.

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post #4 of 25 Unread Yesterday, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
I've seen "All amps sound same" phrase passed around on this forum by some members but haven't seen anyone making that claim. If you have seen it, please post where, when and in what context it was said.

Julian Hirsch: For example, in April 1977, he stated: “I do not believe that any amplifier that is reasonably good and operating as intended has any sound quality of its own, at least not in the sense that phono cartridges, speakers, and listening rooms have their distinctive sounds.”
Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...fZyhtbzeu3E.99
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post #5 of 25 Unread Yesterday, 10:14 PM
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I hate to say anything bad about somebody that can't defend themselves but it was said the Jullian Hirsch was in bed with the audio manufacturers and therefor his claim that all amps sound the same (or words to that effect) was an effort to please the industry based on positive reviews and sales, others more critical, just said he was deaf.
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post #6 of 25 Unread Today, 03:35 AM
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JH was more of a "science" guy or objective listener much like his protege David Ranada at Stereo Review, who simply didn't care for flashy subjective reviews that use language more suitable for wine critics. To accuse him in being bed with amp MFR's is nonsensical since many "audiophile" amp maker claims tuned or distinguished sound from one another to bolster sales. JH would have been a counter effect to that. Of course him being "deaf" is another insult that thrown around by people who simply disagreed with his opinions and methods, but casts more shadow onto them than on JH especially today since the man is gone for a while now.

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post #7 of 25 Unread Today, 04:20 AM
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All amplifiers should sound the same.


Obviously tube amplifiers, especially the SET variety, and other based on audiophoolery 'engineering' principles will sound worse.
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post #8 of 25 Unread Today, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
I hate to say anything bad about somebody that can't defend themselves but it was said the Jullian Hirsch was in bed with the audio manufacturers and therefor his claim that all amps sound the same (or words to that effect) was an effort to please the industry based on positive reviews and sales, others more critical, just said he was deaf.
It was said by who? Frankly you should never have made this post. It's 100% innuendo and opinion about someone who as you yourself said, cannot defend themselves.
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From Stereo Review/Sound and Vision:


http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...uuiyg1UlfYL.97


I followed his reviews for years and don't really have much of a opinion either way on his methods, but to answer your question "It was said by who?" above is one article from the magazine that he wrote for. Just saying ....

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post #10 of 25 Unread Today, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vzphoneman View Post
From Stereo Review/Sound and Vision:


http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...uuiyg1UlfYL.97


I followed his reviews for years and don't really have much of a opinion either way on his methods, but to answer your question "It was said by who?" above is one article from the magazine that he wrote for. Just saying ....
Good article. Thanks. However the point made above about Hirsch being in the pocket of manufacturers is not confirmed by that article. The article tells me he was careful and circumspect in his reviews.
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post #11 of 25 Unread Today, 07:34 AM
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As Frank stated,

They should sound the same as the specifications are known, can be designed, measured and shipped to meet those standards. Just because they should does not mean they do! This can be verified under testing or why it is critical to actually bench test equipment VS just babbling about air, liquid or tightness and so on.

The big question would then shift to--What level of amplifier spec do they sound alike? Well, that depends on what the other things amplifiers have to deal with. If you have speakers that are tradtional 8 ohm loads without wild impedance swings, then that is an easy load so no industrial amplifiers are required. If you has an iPal subwoofer, it's 1 ohm load requires commercial grade amplifiers to keep from burning down your house. For the folks that own ESL speakers, those things require specific amplifiers for operation.

It is not "ALL amplifiers sound the same" it is "all amplifiers that are designed, manufactured, tested, verified to meet or exceed specific standards, not clipped, overdriven, overheated, used outside of design specifications etc. will sound the same". To me, having an amplifier that has a clip light or limiter function is much, much more valuable than 130dB S/N ratio over 110dB S/N ratio.

Amps are just parts, tools for a specific job. The power supply to drive the air pumps so use the right one for your air pump and win!
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post #12 of 25 Unread Today, 08:05 AM
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Actually, there are 13,800 instances of the phrase 'sound the same' used with amp, avr, amplifier, or receiver used in these pages. I'm sure I've missed a few thou, but this is as close as I can get in the time I have.

Many of these may not be on point, but many will.

A search to use:

amp OR avr OR amplifier OR receiver "sound the same" site:www.avsforum.com

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&..._rights=#spf=1

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post #13 of 25 Unread Today, 08:21 AM
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Now if one wants to leave amplifiers, AVRs, preamps, receivers out of it and only search for

"all amps sound the same" site:www.avsforum.com. Only 1520 instances.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&..._rights=#spf=1
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post #14 of 25 Unread Today, 08:39 AM
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sound the same is just another term for they work for what they are designed for.

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And another way to slice this with 2770 instances

amp or receiver or avr or amplifier w/10 "sound the same" site:www.avsforum.com

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&....com&*&spf=553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchott View Post
...Frankly you should never have made this post. It's 100% innuendo and opinion...
It was a totally relevant post about the first person that I know of making the claim that amps sound the same (within workable constraints). He was the poster boy for this line of thinking in the seventies.
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post #17 of 25 Unread Today, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
It was a totally relevant post about the first person that I know of making the claim that amps sound the same (within workable constraints). He was the poster boy for this line of thinking in the seventies.
But you are also citing anonymous sources questioning his credibility based on financial reasons. I think you have to be very circumspect making this sort of comment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchott View Post
But you are also citing anonymous sources questioning his credibility based on financial reasons. I think you have to be very circumspect making this sort of comment.
You can use your best judgement and apply the weight value that is appropriate for your comfort level.

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post #19 of 25 Unread Today, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
It was a totally relevant post about the first person that I know of making the claim that amps sound the same (within workable constraints). He was the poster boy for this line of thinking in the seventies.

And the counter to JH's position

http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/M...-glossary.html

http://audiophilereview.com/audiophi...blishment.html
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Last edited by Scotth3886; Today at 09:31 AM.
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post #20 of 25 Unread Today, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
You can use your best judgement and apply the weight value that is appropriate for your comfort level.
I have no comfort for what you intimated and personally would have said it in a far less contentious way.

The problem with the internet is people posting snippets taken out of context.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
All amplifiers should sound the same.


Obviously tube amplifiers, especially the SET variety, and other based on audiophoolery 'engineering' principles will sound worse.
I've never bothered to audition amps/receivers side by side, (unlike speakers), so any difference doesn't intrigue me enough to bother; I guess I'm just lazy.

I was definitely expecting an audio dropoff when my $2500 (in today's money) NAD AVR failed...lost its inputs one by one starting with digital and moving to all the analog inputs.

Replaced it with a $500 Denon in disgust.

Didn't notice any dropoff to be honest through my Usher V602s but, then again, it wasn't an A/B comparison as the NAD was toast by then.

Happily my 35 year old NAD 7250PE analog receiver plods along happily each day in my secondary system.

Maybe I should move it into my HT room and compare it to my Denon in Pure Direct.

Um, no, ain't gonna happen.

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I am inclined to "all amps sound the same" view (but not dogmatically so). Perhaps the real issues in selecting one amp/receiver over another is: the quality of components (do they use high-heat tolerant capacitors, etc); how effective is their heat dispersion/ventilation, how well isolated are the various modules from each other cross-talk wise, etc?

I have a NAD T775 HD which has been repaired twice in approx 5-7 years, and my repairer mentioned observing heat damage to some parts. I also read in some thread that this particular model NAD did have a bad area in terms of heat dispersion.

When I chose an earlier model NAD (T762) for my first receiver, I took it home together with a Denon (cannot remember model) of similar price, and would have sworn that the NAD had a "fuller"(???) sound. Like the NAD was a quality brand cello being played by a maestra, while the Denon was a cheap student's violin being played by a beginner. Hence my qualification "(but not dogmatically so)"so above.

Interestingly enough, my current NAD (the T775 HD) did not, to my ears, appear to have that odd sound "signature" as the earlier T762 had, but nor does it make everything sound thin in the way that Denon sounded. Don't get me wrong, I aint anti-Denon. Have had a Denon stereo amp as part of my first serious sound system, along with a Denon CD player, and also owned a Denon DVD/CD/SACD/DVD Audio player. Beautiful picture and sound quality, all of it.

In fact, my 20 + yr old Denon Stereo amp is still with me, and working, and indeed filled in (in stereo only) while my NAD T 775 was away for repairs, while my T762 is also having probs (I think the main control processor module - once it has been on for 5-10 minutes, nothing can be changed - volume, input source, surround mode - etc are non-responsive from both the remote and the buttons on the receiver front panel. Whatever settings you started with, you are stuck with.)

I'm rambling. I'll go. Time for breakfast anyway. (it's old age, I keep telling you.......)

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post #23 of 25 Unread Today, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
...

"all amps sound the same" site:www.avsforum.com. Only 1520 instances.
...]
Yep, and that quote would be part of the hits on the next search, no? So, what does that mean? Context is absent.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
Yep, and that quote would be part of the hits on the next search, no? So, what does that mean? Context is absent.

It is?

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&..._rights=#spf=1

Here, cut and paste this into the google search bar just as it is below. Make sure you get the quotations marks too.

"all amps sound the same" site:www.avsforum.com

You'll have all the context you'll ever have time to read.

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post #25 of 25 Unread Today, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
It was a totally relevant post about the first person that I know of making the claim that amps sound the same (within workable constraints). He was the poster boy for this line of thinking in the seventies.
Bringing up his name was relevant, but the rest was not!

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