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post #1 of 131 Old 08-08-2007, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got new speaker cables to replace my crappy 16 gauge "speaker wire". I bought a pair of 10 gauge cables from Cobaltcables.com. They were relatively inexpensive and the quality from what I saw and read looked like a steal.

The difference in my system was HUGE. I have a modest system, a Rotel RB-1080 amp and Polk Audio Monitor 60 speakers, but I was blown away by the difference. Definitely check that company out, I also bought a pair of their interconnects to go between my Rotel and my Onkyo receiver. Amazing. Cables can make a difference, though I'm curious if anything would change if I were to switch these out for some serious Kimbers or Nordosts down the road. At any rate, $200 for a pair of 3 meter speaker cables of this quality is incredible. The soldering is great (I took the banana plugs off to check it out), the wire is thick, they are sheathed well. Check them out. UNREAL.
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post #2 of 131 Old 08-08-2007, 07:25 PM
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At any rate, $200 for a pair of 3 meter speaker cables is not relatively inexpensive.

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post #3 of 131 Old 08-08-2007, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess after you start reading stereophile they start to seem that way! those tara labs zero cables were scary
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post #4 of 131 Old 08-08-2007, 08:04 PM
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Try cheap 12 gauge wire from Home Depot and you will find no difference. Also try inexpensive gold connectors and again there will be no difference.
Richard
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post #5 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 06:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid112 View Post

I just got new speaker cables to replace my crappy 16 gauge "speaker wire". I bought a pair of 10 gauge cables from Cobaltcables.com. They were relatively inexpensive and the quality from what I saw and read looked like a steal.

The difference in my system was HUGE. I have a modest system, a Rotel RB-1080 amp and Polk Audio Monitor 60 speakers, but I was blown away by the difference. Definitely check that company out, I also bought a pair of their interconnects to go between my Rotel and my Onkyo receiver. Amazing. Cables can make a difference, though I'm curious if anything would change if I were to switch these out for some serious Kimbers or Nordosts down the road. At any rate, $200 for a pair of 3 meter speaker cables of this quality is incredible. The soldering is great (I took the banana plugs off to check it out), the wire is thick, they are sheathed well. Check them out. UNREAL.

I've been telling people about Cobalt since I joined the forum last year. All they keep doing is beating the Monoprice drum .

I know cables make a difference.
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post #6 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 08:27 AM
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Yes, but can you tell the difference between Poptarts?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #7 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doxytuner View Post

Try cheap 12 gauge wire from Home Depot and you will find no difference. Also try inexpensive gold connectors and again there will be no difference.
Richard

Richard which cables did you compare the Home Depot cable to?
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post #8 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 08:30 AM
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Cobalt makes an excellent cable. Even though they don't offer a program for custom installers, I've used them in the past and they look very nice and sound great.

They typically have a one-time sale per year on Halloween. They call it the Spooky Sale....1/2 price usually.

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post #9 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doxytuner View Post

Try cheap 12 gauge wire from Home Depot and you will find no difference. Also try inexpensive gold connectors and again there will be no difference.
Richard

That's funny. Not true, but funny.
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post #10 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 11:11 AM
 
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I know cables make a difference.

I know that they don't.
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post #11 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 12:17 PM
 
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I know that they don't.

And you have the audacity to call me a troll in another thread.

Your post right here and now is the definition of trolling. Get a life. You're on ignore.
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post #12 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 12:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Yes, but can you tell the difference between Poptarts?

Theres a big difference between the frosted strawberry and the unfrosted ones.
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post #13 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 12:39 PM
 
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Get a life. You're on ignore

In other words, you're a troll, and can't handle it when someone calls you on it...truely a pathetic troll, a hypocrite as well, as evidenced by every post you make.

Have a nice day
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post #14 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright that got weird...but yeah I really do think cables make a difference. I don't know how much that is true in the upper range (Stereophile said Nordost's Heimdalls, which are a 1/5 the price of the Valhalla sounded just the same). But the soldering done here for example is better than most people could do themselves, and the locking bananas were sweeeet.
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post #15 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSonics View Post

Richard which cables did you compare the Home Depot cable to?

I've been in high end audio for over 50 years and base my opinion on what audio engineers have stated throughout these years as well as several double blind tests in which the participants could not tell the difference between inexpensive copper wire and exotic speaker cables as well as inexpensive and expensive interconnects. ( Since I subscribe to many audio publications, I can't refer you to a specific article.) There may be those who may not share my view and I fully respect their opinions.
Richard
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post #16 of 131 Old 08-09-2007, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doxytuner View Post

I've been in high end audio for over 50 years and base my opinion on what audio engineers have stated throughout these years as well as several double blind tests in which the participants could not tell the difference between inexpensive copper wire and exotic speaker cables as well as inexpensive and expensive interconnects. ( Since I subscribe to many audio publications, I can't refer you to a specific article.) There may be those who may not share my view and I fully respect their opinions.
Richard

I have never spent a lot of time with cables until lately. Now that the system has just about reached its zenith I decided to spend some time trying some more expensive exotic cables and with varying degrees of success I have hit paydirt and am very pleased. But these are expensive silver wire IC's. Dramatic difference in sound for the better. Less impact in the SC area but still messing with them, even playing with bi-wire versus single to satisfy my curiosity. But I have found SC's to be the least impactful cable change so far.

Bottom line is cables made my system a step function better ad I was skeptical thy would but they did. I trialed many and sent most of them back until I found what worked. Lots of hassle but worth it.
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post #17 of 131 Old 08-10-2007, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by PAD View Post

I have never spent a lot of time with cables until lately. Now that the system has just about reached its zenith I decided to spend some time trying some more expensive exotic cables and with varying degrees of success I have hit paydirt and am very pleased. But these are expensive silver wire IC's. Dramatic difference in sound for the better. Less impact in the SC area but still messing with them, even playing with bi-wire versus single to satisfy my curiosity. But I have found SC's to be the least impactful cable change so far.

Bottom line is cables made my system a step function better ad I was skeptical thy would but they did. I trialed many and sent most of them back until I found what worked. Lots of hassle but worth it.

It may be something simple that I missed but what is SC.
Richard
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post #18 of 131 Old 08-10-2007, 08:00 AM
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speaker cable
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post #19 of 131 Old 08-10-2007, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAD View Post


Bottom line is cables made my system a step function better ad I was skeptical thy would but they did. I trialed many and sent most of them back until I found what worked. Lots of hassle but worth it.

It can be an improvement in some cases of low quality original interconnects. It can also be a case of "refreshing" the connection points. By that I mean that as you plug and unplug different cables' connectors, you would have unknowingly removed some of the oxide buildup on plugs and jacks, resulting in sound improvement.

I agree that cable quality is important but I would stay away from exotic cables.
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post #20 of 131 Old 08-10-2007, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by swwg View Post

It can be an improvement in some cases of low quality original interconnects. It can also be a case of "refreshing" the connection points. By that I mean that as you plug and unplug different cables' connectors, you would have unknowingly removed some of the oxide buildup on plugs and jacks, resulting in sound improvement.

I agree that cable quality is important but I would stay away from exotic cables.

I agree 100% but I would take it one step further. PAD should have someone switch the silver interconnects to inexpensive gold interconnects and see if PAD can get it right at least 6 out of 6 times.
Richard
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post #21 of 131 Old 08-10-2007, 05:52 PM
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A HUGE difference is claimed. As is usual with these guys.

I too have taken DBTs with speaker wires and patch cords and nobody could tell a difference. Note that the tests are for difference not preference. Of course it's possible a BAD wire would make a difference by altering the signal. This should be a disquieting thought to wire freaks.

Again I ask a simple question: if speaker wires and patch cords make a HUGE difference how did something so simple and basic get by guys like Olson, Hilliard, Wente, Fletcher and Walker? Eh? Well maybe they had no interest in using wires they knew would alter the signal. Eh?

And if you don't know who those guys are.......
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post #22 of 131 Old 08-11-2007, 09:02 AM
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TOM BRENNAN is right. I have never heard or read about an independent double blind test proving that ultra expensive interconnects are better than inexpensive gold connectors or tests to show that ultra expensive speaker cables are better than inexpensive 12 gauge copper wire(that's what I use). Of course, you have to disregard anything associated with any manufacturer.
Richard
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post #23 of 131 Old 08-11-2007, 12:03 PM
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Why would they do a DBT on speaker cables? It's not in the manufacturer's best interest. Not to mention that people seem to eat up marketing "science".
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post #24 of 131 Old 08-11-2007, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know about any supposed difference in ultra high-end cables, I have never listened to them and will not buy them any time soon. When I started the post, I noted the difference between my new cables and cheap 16-gauge lamp wire, of which I can unquestionably say there is a huge difference. Why did I buy these cables as opposed to some DIY home depot ones? I wanted the quality soldering, the neatness, and quite frankly the appealing looks. To each his own, I did not find 200 to be outrageous for a set of 10' cables, and they sure look and sound great.
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post #25 of 131 Old 08-11-2007, 04:10 PM
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Reid----Have you ever considered, just considered, the possiblity that you're BSing yourself?

Having BSed myself on numerous occasions in my over 35 years in this hobby I'm damned certain of the ability of others to BS themselves. Self-delusion is something every astute audiophile should consider and guard against.

Regards
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post #26 of 131 Old 08-11-2007, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Considered, rejected. 16 gauge vs. 10 gauge had a difference, don't know what else to say.
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post #27 of 131 Old 08-12-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
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Considered, rejected. 16 gauge vs. 10 gauge had a difference, don't know what else to say.

As a general rule, the DC resistance of speaker cable should be kept at 0.1 ohms or less. For 10' of 16AWG it's .08 resistance and for 10' of 10AWG it's .02 ohms resistance. I'm thinking you do have an actual improvement since .08 ohms resistance is not that far away from the maximum 0.1 ohms resistance allowed. Your system may be sensitive to the ohms resistance but you could have done the same thing with cheap 10AWG wire. It's understandable that you wanted good looks and quality soldering but you could have bought 20' of Original Monster Cable( 12Gauge) for 49.99 from Crutchfield and spent a small amount for the specific needed Monster connectors. The 200 you spent was not unreasonable and more important, you're happy with it.
Richard
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post #28 of 131 Old 08-12-2007, 11:33 AM
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Richard,

So you are saying that there is no difference between Home Depot wire, and other cables, without testing other wires?

Fine, you are basing this on things you have read. Others have read where cables do make a difference. So which writings does one believe. It I were to read selectively, then Bill clinton did not have sex with that woman.

Personally, I did the test myself so I would KNOW for myself. I suggest you do the same so when you state something as fact, there is some basis for it.

I did some test when I had a low-mid level system, and could not tell a difference. At that time, I would have agreed with the tests you mention. My system did not provide the clarity required to hear cable differences.

Later, when I had better equipment, and a better sounding room, I did more testing and I could easily tell differences between cables. Trust me, I didn't want to hear a difference for my wallet's sake.

Why try to guess about cables with so many differse opinions going around the net? The tests are easy. Have your local dealer lend you some cables, and give it a try.

Darrell

Quote:
Originally Posted by doxytuner View Post

I've been in high end audio for over 50 years and base my opinion on what audio engineers have stated throughout these years as well as several double blind tests in which the participants could not tell the difference between inexpensive copper wire and exotic speaker cables as well as inexpensive and expensive interconnects. ( Since I subscribe to many audio publications, I can't refer you to a specific article.) There may be those who may not share my view and I fully respect their opinions.
Richard

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post #29 of 131 Old 08-12-2007, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodSonics View Post

Richard,

So you are saying that there is no difference between Home Depot wire, and other cables, without testing other wires?

Fine, you are basing this on things you have read. Others have read where cables do make a difference. So which writings does one believe. It I were to read selectively, then Bill clinton did not have sex with that woman.

Personally, I did the test myself so I would KNOW for myself. I suggest you do the same so when you state something as fact, there is some basis for it.

I did some test when I had a low-mid level system, and could not tell a difference. At that time, I would have agreed with the tests you mention. My system did not provide the clarity required to hear cable differences.

Later, when I had better equipment, and a better sounding room, I did more testing and I could easily tell differences between cables. Trust me, I didn't want to hear a difference for my wallet's sake.

Why try to guess about cables with so many differse opinions going around the net? The tests are easy. Have your local dealer lend you some cables, and give it a try.

Darrell


I tested various speaker cables as well, but I did it in college when I was in college getting my Electronics Engineering/Computer Networking degree.

As long as you have the right gauge for your distance to keep resistance down, there's is little measurable dfference between expensive cables and simple zipcord.

Also, what alot of people don't seem to realize is that the quality of connection they are buying is overkill in comparison to what's behind the connection in the box. Take off the top of your receiver/amp and don't be suprised to see 18 gauge wire connected to your terminals.
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post #30 of 131 Old 08-12-2007, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Somewhat on topic, I know TheCableCo.com allows you to borrow any of their cables for a small fee which can then be put toward a later purchase from their website. So, if any of you have not purchased cables recently and are looking to do so, it might be worth borrowing a few different cables in different ranges and seeing what happens! I will likely do this with interconnects when I add a DAC in a few months, I'm curious to see what, if anything, happens.
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